Admiration for Anti Social Personality Disorder?

I dont know about a genetic theory of personality but I can relate to a fascination with non-empathic personalities. I think a lot of Avoidant behaviour can boil down to a fear of anger. Anger is something I am definitely afraid to express or even let myself feel. I now know when its lurking because I have 'symptoms' that I have learned to recognize - one of which is a surge in this fascination with people who express anger openly and seemingly without conscience.

The few times when I have truly allowed myself to feel angry, and sensed the depths of this incredibly nasty emotion - It has exhausted me - but when it finally clears I have experienced a real sense of peace that is hard to believe exists most of the time. I'm convinced there is something to be gained by allowing anger into your life and letting it find its place.

I am not entirely convinced about the genetic proposition.

It has been pointed out here on this forum that siblings from the same family, same genetics have different personalities. there are wide variations of types within the same family group.

Any way i would love the ability to express my anger openly, i am passive aggressive really, i make sarcastic comments to get my point across. not very productive

As a very timid and somewhat kind hearted person, I find myself drawn to the dark side . Usually these dark parts of my personlity don't get expressed. I think this is a common thing for most avoidants. Is expression of the dark side a sign of self confidence? We obviously lack self confidence.

People shouldn't deny their dark side, because no matter what I think it will be there, lurking. To be a healthy individual you must embrace all parts of yourself, accept yourself as being one part human and one part animal. If you try to bury the things you can't accept this will only lead to problems in the long run.

It’s sort of like the Mediterranean obsessed with the body, and features of the Nordic, while the Nordic is obsessed with the charisma and culture of the Mediterranean. It’s all a part of the elaborate fantasy that is created from someone that is your intriguing antipode.

I know what you are saying but, apart from the biological hand your were dealt at birth, I believe most of the time what we desire through fantasies like this can easily be seen as latent aspects of ourselves

I seem to be recognized as a fairly timid, shy and sensitive person and throughout my life I have found myself drawn to and associating with people who are bold, gregarious and not very sensitive. Rather than simply be happy with how this all fits together, I found myself more and more resentful and frustrated with them. Over a long time I came to the realization that there is a reason I am frustrated with these people. - and that's because essentially they are not my opposite. They are rivals. I have a terrible fear of facing this rivalry out in the open though, and I think a long time ago this somehow led my psyche to just bury the whole mess. Like a prisoner committing to a hunger strike, in my desperation, I unconsciously decided to REFUSE to have these qualities and instead forced myself to only admire them from afar.

I cannot make myself to lie down and accept what these people offer me any more. I can however try to make a deal with my psyche and as an adult, attempt to recognize, acknowledge and respect these qualities in myself. It is the only way I think I will truly have any sense of self respect.

I do not admire anti-social or sadistic personalities at all. I have had and know at least 2 "friends" who have these kind of personalities.

They have not overcome anything. They are not tough-minded at all. At the core they are just as weak & insecure and they use their personalities as a defense just like avoidants do. Instead of locking up, turning inwards, and withdrawing from the world, they quell their pain by inflicting it upon others and finding & exploiting whatever fault they can find in others to make themselves feel better.

Sure they may look confident, tough, unwavering, whatever. It's all just a masquerade to hide from others how inferior they feel. They don't want to be used, taken advantage of, or hurt just like anybody else so they detach in a different way-uncaring, unempathetic, unremorseful. They may not realize or admit it now, but their personality is just a defense, whether subconciously expressed or conciously used. They will exploit and hurt whoever and whatever in an attempt to protect themselves, dull their misery, or spice up their pathetic lives. If you can find something about them that they are truly embarassed or insecure about, and mock them using it, your insults will cut the anti-social or sadist just as deep as it would any avoidant. They only react differently.

I do not admire them, they have no strength.

Genetics may confer some disposition to certain personalities, but I do not believe they are expressed unless triggered by life experiences in most cases.

The only personality "disorder" I even remotely admire are true schizoids simply because they are truly detached. Their lack of emotion provides some strength and inspires some awe in the sense that they are not part of the normal human pettiness, but I do not admire the complete lack of emotion or empathy. They have not really overcome anything, they are just simply that way.

We all have our dark sides. That does not mean we need to feed it, only acknowledge it. I can get angry. I used to not control it as well when I was younger. A few times I lashed out and hurt some people quite severly that I would have never harmed normally. There was nothing great about that.

Jonathan wrote:nature made us what we are, and makes us feel what we feel for a reason.

I think that humans as a by-product of nature and natural selection are in a conflict now. We have certain instincts or behaviours that suited us in our ancestral history and in the natural world but conflict with our constructed society. Nature also gave us powerful minds and intellect. We are fully self-conscious and aware, have reason and logic, and are capable of learning and applying complex & abstract ideas and concepts. I think true strength comes from using your mind to overcome the lesser or primal feelings. I admire those who realize everything that we do is a subconcious action driven by the whole purpose of life, reproduction, and overcome these trivial thoughts, emotions, and behaviours. Those who can do that have true strength and are the only people I admire.

Avoidant Doormat wrote:Schizoids can be the most condescending-jerks, in a boundless-manner.

Many of them are riding on that, ‘intellectual-superiority,’ gimmick because obviously – they possess no other decent qualities for, social-time.

I only admire their detachment because it sets them apart from the usual trivialities and pointlessness that accompanies ordinary humans. Schizoids can often appear condescending simply because they do not engage in the usually niceties and manners expected in casual social interaction. Those who claim to be schizoid but are "riding on that, 'intellectual-superiority,' gimmick" would not seem to be schizoid in my opinion. I'm not a shrink but I assumed schizoids do not care whether they are seen as inferior, superior, or different. If it is a "gimmick", then I would suggest they aren't really schizoid and are just using it as a defense.

But yes, they can seem quite condescending and I'm sure quite a lot of them are. This image of them is probably reinforced and/or intensified by our avoidant tendency of sensitivity to perceived insults (whether real or not).

Avoidant Doormat wrote:Being a Schizoid would be better than being an Avoidant, yet worse in other manners. So it would be equal, to a similar condition.

My thoughts exactly. There are pro's and con's to all the personality disorders in my opinion. Hard to see personality disorders as being beneficial in any way, yet they have developed for a reason. I'm thinking because they serve as an emotional, social, and even physical defense mechanism. Of course, there are the pro's and con's to being a 'neuro-typical' as well. Anyway you cut it, life is always going to suck in some way.

I can kind of relate.

I have always been fascinated by people who have no regard for others. I sorta wish I was that way. It's sad, but I think I would much rather be a sociopath than an avoidant. At least then I wouldn't go home everyday and analyze every single conversation I had that day and feel bad about myself for numerous reasons and never be able to socialize in a healthy way. I wouldn't be so strongly affected by criticism because I just wouldn't care.

Anathema wrote:It's sad, but I think I would much rather be a sociopath than an avoidant. I wouldn't be so strongly affected by criticism because I just wouldn't care.

Like Iron Angel said, sociopath are sociopath BECAUSE they care. If you go around seeking vengeance at random, it's because you ARE hurt inside, you just don't express it the same way.

If you want to stop caring either turn normal or schizoid. Personally I would vote normal. Being schizoid sucks horribly. There have been some discussions about whether or not schizoid might even be the suckiest PD to live. I think I read somewhere that it's the PD with the highest suicide rate of all.

I don't admire Anti-Socials, but I'm envious of them because their life is so bloody easy.

I thought I was a schizoid. I thought it was great, I didn't need or care or feel at all. Life was a streaming half-dream half-nightmare that I could end when I was ready.

Unfortunately it didn't last. I realized schizoid only worked for me when other people around, when I was in High School. After I graduated it, the euphoria stopped flowing, and it became apparent (slowly) that I did in fact crave social contact, even though I hated admitting it, hated being a part of it, and hated enduring it.

I'm realizing it's all part of an overarching narcisissism, it all goes back to that: I'm not whole: not full, non-real.

I've never envied anybody. The anti-social people just destroy. I do the same thing, I destroy selectively, within a smaller scope of things I can manipulate. Whatever normal people are: they destroy too, as a collective their actions have caused more destruction and misery than PDs.

They've always beweildered me: they take this horrible, shoddy life, and instead of killing themselves they make it worse? Mankind is ######6 doomed.