Sense of Identity

I've read and heard that people with Borderline Personality Disorder have an unstable sense of identity so sometimes they dress like other people. There seems to be a consensus that an identity is something that people need. People try to "find themselves" as if something precious is lost. When someone feels bad about what they've done, they might say "This is so unlike me!" Another phrase I find interesting is "I don't know who you are anymore!" It's like everyone is expected to allow themselves to become a specific person, and stay that way, never deviating from their destiny.

So far I have not felt a need for an identity, believed I needed an identity, or seen convincing evidence that an identity is important. To me, an identity is the last thing I need. It would be too restricting. I would be constantly thinking "Oh! I can't do that! People like me don't do things like that!" I do follow ethics and morals, so I try to avoid doing things I would feel bad about, and I think that's good. I am also pretty dutiful. In school I wouldn't skip assignments, and I follow through on whatever I say I'm going to do. Other that, I do whatever I think I will enjoy, or whatever I think is a good idea. I don't think of myself as a type of person with a particular identity. Whenever I am part of an organization, or I'm one of the people with particular characteristics, I don't take much pride in it, or use it in my definition of who I am.

There are patterns in my behavior. Sometimes I think something matches my style, or is something that I would do. In these ways I am usually consistent, but I don't feel like departing from the pattern would threaten my identity, only that it might not be as pleasant and effective as the option I prefer. I am not scared that my identity could be compromised if I decide to do things differently. I have trouble answering "describe yourself", "what kind of a person are you", stuff like that, because I don't know who I am - and I don't care. I exist (at least I think I exist). I am reasonably comfortable. I don't need to be somebody. I don't need a sense of identity.

I think the notion that having an identity is good should be brought to our awareness, so it is no longer allowed to hide in assumption and "common sense". It should be stated as an argument and then defended. Convince me that identity matters. Don't just expect me to believe it because everyone else does. If we become aware that we're thinking it, then the belief may be vulnerable to challenge, and I think it should be challenged. I have not failed to form an identity because I have not attempted to form an identity. I don't think it's a worthwhile goal. If I have failed to form a personal identity, have I also failed to eat a million worms?

For some people having a sense of identity may be important, but for me it is not. What do y'all think of "sense of identity"?

I see my adaptability as one of my strengths. I seem to be able to reinvent myself with ease.

However, not knowing my limits, I find it very difficult to set boundaries with other people. So socialising or relating to people often becomes overwhelming. Because I don't have a clear sense of who I am, I never think to say 'No, I can't do that' or 'No, that isn't good for me'. So I tend to put other people's desires/needs first, and suffer the consequences.

Knowledge is power. Having a shaky sense of self seems like a distinct disadvantage imho.

My2cents wrote:For some people having a sense of identity may be important, but for me it is not.

The self-awareness embedded in your post suggests otherwise. You do want to project an identity. You're a person for whom it's important to be seen as unique, unpredictable, and someone who won't be tied down. A real free spirit.

You just conveyed your sense of identity to us in your post, and if you didn't feel it was important, you wouldn't have bothered to post about it.

I am what I am. Take it or leave it.

WichitaLineman wrote:

My2cents wrote:For some people having a sense of identity may be important, but for me it is not.

The self-awareness embedded in your post suggests otherwise. You do want to project an identity. You're a person for whom it's important to be seen as unique, unpredictable, and someone who won't be tied down. A real free spirit.

You just conveyed your sense of identity to us in your post, and if you didn't feel it was important, you wouldn't have bothered to post about it.

Funny.
I can relate to the OP.
But there is a distinction to be made between your inner identity and the identity projected, basically the mask. You need a mask at the very least that people can relate to, if you want to be around them.
Having no fixed identity is a strength when it comes to flexibility, but a weakness when it comes to stability. So in the end, it depends on what you want.
When you go into a group, they will expect you to project the identity of the group at the very least.

I'm not trying to project an identity. I'm trying to question what I perceive as a false assumption our culture has.

Having a "mask" would be too much work. If I'm comfortable with people I do whatever I want. Otherwise I don't say or do much more than I have to, and people seem to assume what they want to about me, and I don't correct them. It's like they create a mask and picture me wearing it so I don't have to. If a group expects me to project its identity, then they can either convince themselves that I do, with little help from me, or I no longer want to deal with that group.

Once in a while people catch me doing something that doesn't line up with the identity they impose on me, and they get surprised. "I had no idea you were that kind of person." It's usually not something bad, so they might find me more interesting, or tease me a little bit, but I don't think they feel betrayed.

I think I am pretty stable, but the stability doesn't come from identity. It comes from good judgment. I don't want to make my life any crazier than it needs to be. In some ways I think I am very predictable, like being reliable and responsible, and I continue doing any habits that seem to be working. But when it comes to something minor I like to switch and be spontaneous. If there are two routes to get to the same place, I pick the other one sometimes. One thing people have noticed about me is my hair. They say they have no idea how I am going to look because it's always something different. I usually put little effort into my appearance, but occasionally I decide to try something, just because. There is no style that is "mine".

I think I have stronger than average boundaries (but nobody except me knows where they are, and I shift them as I see fit). I am willing to do favors for others most of the time, but. If I have other things to do, or I want to be alone, or someone has been asking too many favors, then I say "no". I don't even feel obligated to give an excuse. "I have stuff to take care of" will suffice, or even "I don't want to" if I'm really feeling blunt. I don't like going into details when I'm saying no, part of the secretiveness. I put others first most of the time because I don't have strong desires of my own that conflict with theirs, but when there is a conflict of interest, I put myself first. I would not expect others to put me first (even though some of them might, although I don't ask), so I let them take care of themselves.

I don't think of myself as having an inner OR outer identity. I see myself as just being myself, whoever that is. I'm almost as indifferent to myself as I am to other people. I usually don't have any idea what other people think of me, and I don't try to make any particular impression (other than not doing something embarrassing that they will never let me live down). When I become aware that someone has made a judgment about me (any opinion at all, good bad or neutral), I'm somewhat taken aback. I don't know what to think when someone says something about me. Usually I'm amused, surprised, and curious. People seem to care too much (in my opinion) about who someone is, how they are, what they are like… I have a hard time answering when someone asks me what kind of a person someone else is, "I hadn't really thought about it - he/she is decent, I guess - I don't really know him/her well enough to say." I don't pay attention to other people's identities either, beyond what role they have in my own life.

I guess this affects how I connect with people. Most people seem to connect with people who have similar identities. If I'm a biker and you're a biker, then we're both bikers, and we have a connection, as most people seem to see it. I see any qualities I have as a coincidence, not part of my identity, so I don't connect tightly with others over having something in common.

Some clarification might be helpful here, because we seem to be talking about two different things when it comes to "identity".

It seems that when you are using the term "identity" you are doing so in the context of some sort of group component, or expectations imposed from without. Possibly you have in mind some common stereotypes in society (nerd, loner, jock, biker,Christian, southerner, etc.) who are expected to behave a certain way based on the type. So when you write about identity, you're not just referring to a "sense of self", you're making the point that you reserve the right to adopt or ignore whatever attributes are associated with any given "identity". Sound reasonable? (Make sense? )

When I think of identity I think I'm really just thinking of the attributes that I have that I know are enduring and stable. I know from experience that I am calm, rational, unemotional, principled, etc. etc. That's my sense of self, or my "core" if you will. My identity is not set in stone, I know some parts of it will slowly change over time as I have different life experiences. But knowing my identity is useful to guide my decisions. It tells me not to take that job in sales, to be careful with emotionally needy people, and so on. It forms my own little mental model of myself.

In reading a lot of your posts, I think it's fair to say that you actually have an extremely strong sense of self. You have firm opinions about things and strong boundaries in relating to others. You are confident in the values you hold and choices you make and can't be swayed by social pressure to do something you don't believe in. You do not find your identity in groups or in the 'mirror' of the opinions of others.

Sound right?

im whoever i want to be. not much gets to me. Im not a solid trying to fit into a glass, im more like jello. I have some 'foundation' that doesnt change but i got wiggle room to change.

I am someone with BPD and about 75% of my dedication and commitment goes toward self identity issues.

There is a self Identity, and then an identity norm. Let me explain.
Identity norm refers to people being placed into catagories and labelled by society. The identity norm is the expectations that is placed upon people by society. It is the social constructed ieals of how people should behave. Example: the identity norm is to wear shoes when one leaves the house. the identity norm is to 'be polite to others' ect ect ect...(and they do go on and on and on as you all know...)
The Self Identity, is the self construction of a person, by that person. example: I am a thinker. I am a quiet person ect ect.

Self Identity is formed by a person about themselves. Hence the name, Self-Identity. When a person begins to form a self identity, for themselves, they do this by self awareness.

But, there is more. First, a person with no sense of self, must begin by breaking down any social constructs of identity that has been placed upon them by the outside world and/or society. Once this is done, then they can begin the formation of their own self-identity. If they do not have any constructs attached to them by the outside world/society, then it just means the get to skip the step of deconstruction of false self.

Yes, as a person with BPD, I actually study this stuff in Uni too (sociology), and I spend a lot of my healing, in therapy and on my own dedicated to this. There is also a lot more, but I don't want to make this confusing at all. I prefer approaching things with simplicity - self constructed image of myself through self awareness (trust me, it took me 44 yrs to know this one simple truth of mine).

These are helpful insights that y'all have been making, helpful in forming and revising my notions about identity. I would like to thank everybody who responds for your input.

I do have some stable and enduring qualities, but I don't think of these qualities as defining who I am. If I'm grumpy sometimes I think these aren't my qualities, they are the right qualities, and everyone else should have them too. Then, if you see my qualities as defining who I am, everybody would be who I am. We would all be me. But that's not something I really believe, or something I think often, and it's not very intense, it's just an idea that sneaks into my mind if I go into a mood, like if I'm frustrated or feel like I'm expected to do something I'm uncomfortable doing. Usually I find the differences between people intriguing.

I have noticed that some people get upset if another person copies something that is "their" style, as if it were identity theft. If other people started acting, dressing, thinking, and speaking more like me, I would not be offended at all. My style isn't really mine, it's like something I found on the ground and decided to use for as long as it's useful, so there is nothing wrong with others sharing my style. I would actually feel an ego boost, since imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.

I don't make a point of displaying my qualities to other people. I don't usually take much pride in my qualities or desire for other people to point out my favorite qualities to me. Actually, I fear that my traits may be too stable and enduring. Often it's advantageous to carefully contemplate things and tentatively form a plan or hypothesis that is open to revision, but in an emergency this habit could backfire because decisiveness and quickness are necessary. I would like to be able to easily drop a trait whenever it's inconvenient.

The identity self / identity norm stuff seems interesting. People consider me weird because I don't conform easily to an "identity norm". When I was in high school several people told me that I don't fit any stereotype… I'm just me… I am my own category. When I am part of a group or a type of person, I do it in my own way, aware that I am an individual with qualities unconnected to the group. In this way I think WL's assessment of me is right. Maybe I can be swayed by social pressure at times, but if I am I am conscious that I'm compromising and I don't get swept unwittingly into the herd.

However, I don't think of my more enduring attributes as my "core" or identity. I don't think of these qualities as being connected to me, except if I'm interacting with someone different. Then I become aware the other person, for example, is ambitious and competitive, while I am more content and relaxed. It's relative. If I'm alone, there is nobody to compare myself to, so I'm not "relatively" any of my qualities, and it's like my qualities disappear.

There are times when I sort of have a "sense of self". I am well enough acquainted with myself to understand how I make decisions. Sometimes I catch myself saying, "That seems like the sort of thing I would do." There are certain behaviors that make special sense to me, so if I do something and forget that I have done it, then see that it has been done, I can identify it as my doing based on how much sense it makes to me. The sensation is like looking at a family photo album and recognizing a photograph of myself. Once in a while (I can't think of any examples offhand) I'm watching TV and a character says or does something that makes special sense to me, something that is a "me" thing to do, and I find the experience satisfying.

I often think it would be great to experience life as someone else. I would like to have a sex change so I could experience life as a woman, but I would only want it to be temporary. I don't cross-dress because I know there is no way I would be convincing, and if anyone found out, it would be a terrible hassle. When another person says or does something that I wouldn't say or do, that doesn't make special sense to me like I described in the above paragraph, I wish I could be a fly on the wall riding in that person's mind. To me, every person (except myself of course) is someone I have been deprived of an opportunity to be. I realize that I'm not flexible enough to be most people, and I probably couldn't convincingly fake being anyone very different from myself, and this has ethical implications (for example, if I "led a double life" with two wives of different backgrounds and lifestyles, I wouldn't have enough time to devote to both and if they found out they would feel betrayed). I would probably feel very uncomfortable trying to be a chameleon. I'm too authentic for that. I bet chameleons have a lot of fun though. I think it would be great if we invented a way to ride inside other people's minds and experience life with them. That way all of us could be all of us.