switching from BPD to covert Narcissistic pd?

octopuslol wrote:How long ago did you recover from BPD? Or were you just in remission? Because what you're describing sounds like unstable self-image, which yes, can contain grandiosity.

I think I still have BPD traits but it seems like the root of my disorder(s) is covert narcissism? If i wasn't a covert narcissist i think I wouldn't have BPD. i think all BPDs have a core of covert narcissism but maybe I'm wrong? it is the truth in my case but I am starting to think it is curable since I'm feeling more connected with humans and not delusional after making this post

The OP's post resonates all too much right now for me. I'm too ashamed to even start a new thread about this but I have to talk about it and right now, this is the only place I can. My therapist gave me some devastating information last night, but it's not as if it's something I didn't expect, so I'm not sure why I'm so upset or so shocked about it.

I'm a diagnosed BPD and started an account here over a year ago because I believed I had covert NPD. Everything I read about it described me exactly and I passed all the online tests for it. I went down the rabbit hole and suddenly everything made sense but I felt very dissociated, as if I was seeing myself from the outside. But I was determined to heal from it, and started seeing a therapist. I couldn't have picked a better therapist (he's a trauma therapist) but he hates psychiatric labels. He believes in treating "symptoms" not disorders. I agree with him about how stigmatizing labels are--you can't just throw people in boxes that easily, but I really wanted a diagnosis anyway. I told him I thought I had covert NPD and he laughed and said there was no way I had that. He said he didn't even think I had BPD and when I reminded him I was dx'd with it twice, he said either they were wrong or I had somehow cured myself of it (I was doing self therapy and DBT before I went into therapy). That happened months ago.

Last night during our session he started talking about what he called y "many layers of defense mechanisms." I know I have a lot of layers and I no longer have BPD rages the way I used to, but I thought that was because I know about mindfulness now. Also I thought some of the BPD itself was healed. I thought that what I show him most of the time is my true self. I was alarmed and thought I knew what he was getting at, so I asked him what he meant by that, even though I already knew what he was about to say. I didn't dare mention the term NPD because I felt like that was somehow a jinx and if I said it that would make it real. I don't know if that makes sense but it's how I felt at the time.

What he said was, "I think what's happened is you acquired a narcissistic defense in order to mask the lack of control you felt over your anger as a borderline." In other words, he was telling me I have a false self! "Are you saying I have NPD" I asked, incredulous. He said, "I hesitate to use a label but what I'm seeing is you have a narcissistic personality." I was speechless and just stared at him like an idiot and then I just started to cry. I always had trouble crying in front of my therapist, but now I was doing it and it wasn't for the reasons I wanted to (catharsis). I buried my head in my hands and felt hot tears fall through my fingers. "What's going on?" my therapist asked. "I don't know, I don't know," I sobbed. Then, when I got the sobbing under control, I said, "but you told me you didn't even think I had BPD and laughed when I said I thought I had NPD." I looked at him, tears still streaming. He looked so sad and empathetic I wanted to hug him, but I also wanted to punch him. Of course I did neither. He said, "I didn't know you as well. I couldn't see narcissism. Over time, I've seen as we peel back one layer of defense, there are more and I see more narcissistic defenses. You're very guarded and that defense has protected you." "But I thought what I showed in here was my real self! You mean I can't ever get at it, I can't ever be my real self, and everything I say in here is just all fake? Are you saying I'm hopeless?" I was shouting now, I was so angry.
He continued, "No, that's not what I said. You are projecting. I don't think your feelings are fake and I don't think you're hopeless at all. I think your pain and your hurt, is real and you show me that in here, but there's an additional defensive layer we need to work through, and that's why you have so many problems connecting meaningfully with people. I think you are extremely motivated and that's half the battle won already." He pulled his chair closer and told me to look at him because as usual, I was avoiding eye contact. I did as he said. He said, "You can beat this thing, and if that's what you really want, I am going to help you. I want that for you too." I burst into tears again at this, because I felt so grateful. I always get so touched when anyone reassures me that everything will be okay, because nothing has every been okay. I never felt like anyone cared but I felt like he did.

I didn't know what I felt--it was a mixture of relief (that what I suspected for over a year was actually the case), feeling insulted, shame and guilt, anger at myself for having developed a false self against my will, and an irrational fear that now that my therapist knew I really was a narcissist that he would reject me because now he knew what a terrible and fake person I really am. He probably would start to hate me and give up on me. I was also still plagued with this horrible feeling of hopelessness--that no matter how many layers of defenses we peeled back, there would always be more under those. I felt like the job of eliminating all those layers was overwhelming and I would never be healed. I felt like I will never know who I really am because how do I even know what's real and what's fake? It's just so damn frustrating. My therapist was very reassuring and told me I've definitely made progress since I started seeing him, but I thought he was just humoring me. I feel like I'm in some endless, insane hall of mirrors and this nightmare will never end. But I'm not giving up or going to allow discouragement to set in. I have to remain positive, but at least now my problem has a name and this battle can be won someday. But right now all I can do is cry. Maybe that's what I need to do.
Sorry this was such a long post. Had a lot to say.

Well you have become more narcissistic, or one could also call it manic. But that you immediately turn into a sobbing mess just because you dont want to be NPD also proves that you dont have NPD. Thats a BPD-type response, just like most of that emotional-driven stuff you have posted lately.
If you have done DBT in the past, maybe use it more often. Step back more often and look at stuff objectively.

Well what i think is that whenever i have emotions and i tend to act on them and let the other person know how i am ACTUALLY feeling, and lash out or act accordingly I go to the BPD side. But when I try to control my emotions and my actions and learn to fake them out a bit i tend to go to the Narcissist side.

I don't know if our triggers, intense emotions and the way we were brought up can ever be erased from us but rather we can learn to control them and stick in middle ground between the two!

I'm still very much BPD. I'm privately VERY emotional (I'm INFJ, not INTJ, though I do think a lot), publicly not at all. MeAgain told me my false self is as thin as a piece of aluminum foil and I think that about sums it up. Foil is easily torn. Anyway, I'm feeling a little better today, it's not like I didn't already know it. I'm fortunate I have such a supportive therapist. But I needed to vent. Thanks for hearing me out.