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Opinions Needed-Calling All Nons And HPD's

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Re: Opinions Needed-Calling All Nons And HPD's

Postby TadLock » Wed Aug 31, 2011 12:46 pm

Jaydon Rich wrote:

However, I believe that in a significant amount of cases all those "I blocked it out" claims are bullsh*t. There's a woman who claim to have her first 'repressed memory' of molestation come about when she was 30 something. It involved her and her father at around age 10, which was believable. She then went on to describe even earlier memories starting when she was six months old.
She was coached to this by a psychologist/psychiatrist.


Yes it is these scenarios I am dealing with and was trying to dig a little deeper in... I am getting this played on me now. It's like everyone is turning on the NPD, calling her out...and she is now having the, "I must have blocked it out" stuff.

I believe there are real versions of it.
But I also believe it happens just like you posted above.
"Misery Is A Stench Of The Human Mind-" Lady Gaga
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Re: Opinions Needed-Calling All Nons And HPD's

Postby AliceWonders » Wed Aug 31, 2011 3:07 pm

Jaydon Rich wrote:
AliceWonders wrote:Sorry- I do agree with it because I do it too.
Like queen, I can remember many things clearly; but because they are so vivid and traumatic- I don't allow myself to remember everything.


I agree. I can remember everything if I want to, but why would I?
However, I believe that in a significant amount of cases all those "I blocked it out" claims are bullsh*t. There's a woman who claim to have her first 'repressed memory' of molestation come about when she was 30 something. It involved her and her father at around age 10, which was believable. She then went on to describe even earlier memories starting when she was six months old.
She was coached to this by a psychologist/psychiatrist. From what I've heard as I have no experience with this myself, they actually suggest scenarios of possible sexual crimes. The basis for these memories might be true, but no matter how vivid memories are subject to slight suggestion. If someone said "what colour were the drapes in the room where he did it?" I'd have no idea. If they said "were the drapes green or red?" I'd hazard a guess. It would apply to more relevant details too, I chose an unemotional statement on purpose.
I actually remeber the curtains were greeny-blue, but that might just be because I still go to that house sometimes.


Definitely the power of sudgestion, especially under hypnosis, is something that must be taken in to account when evaluating this kinda stuff.

I've never been hypnotised and no one's ever asked me those kinds of leading questions to gain access to these things. They all came of their own accord and I was not aware of them at all before the memories came back.

I'm not sure how 'normal' that is; but one thing I've realized in the past near year on here investigating myself and comparing my own symptoms/experiences next to others who have my disorders, is that I'm not 'normal' (even for a PD) and that I don't have to be. What I mean is that maybe someone's elses suppression wasn't as complete as mine, maybe it was- that's hard to say and I can't say; which is why I can't speculate on how others experience/use/abuse this mechanism.

I seem to have a pretty severe case of identity defussion, and I compartmentalize and/or detach myself from anything/everything that I can't/won't deal with. I seem to experience this to quite an extreme degree (acording to my 'crazy coaches'- therapist/shrink/homeopath/etc..) in my everyday living, so it wouldn't suprise me if my suppression wasn't severe/excessive as well.

All I know is that I was completely oblivious to these things at one point, and then they came flashing to me in graphic images of what ocurred.

The newest memory, and something I'm even having a hard time excepting, came to me suddenly with the touch of a tiny fleshy finger, bracing my outer hand. All of a sudden, instantly and without previous sexual though or stimulation, I could visually see a penis touching that same part of me, with the same soft warm fleshy feel. I could see my arm/hand region, and that part of my body was very tiny and small. I can't even see myself in that because I am myself- it is all my body and my view point as if it were actually happening right then and there- literally. Because I can't see myself to see how old I am or anything like that, I compared the size of my arm/hand in the vission to guestimate that it was aproxamitly the same size as my daughters at the time (so I would have been 4-5 years old) and it scared the hell outta me!!!!

I was doing absolutely nothing to think of that, or anything like it. I was laying in bed with my son, who home sick from school that day, and we were cuddling when his finger so innocently touched that part of me and it was BLASTING, FLASH images and the sensation, almost a brieft 4D video in the mind and I shook it out of my head because I was affraid & I didn't want to be there at all.

There was no inkling that that ever happened. I never even considered that anything happened to me before the thing with my brother when I was 7. This only came to memory a few months ago, and I'm still having a very difficult time accepting it because it just seems so damned impossible that it ever could have happened at all!

I don't want it to be real. I'm having a very hard time excepting it to be real. I went out of my way to research the area, the man I saw as the memory played out (when I let it do another day when my son was in school) and how I could have possibly been alone in this park where a man like that could have done something like this to me, and I found some pictures from an old family renuinin that had to men in white Tshirts with dark brown mullet hair, and it could have been then, it could have been one of them; but other than that I have no idea how this could have possibly happened.

I even asked my therapist about it, and she had me tell her how the memory was stimulated, what I saw and how it all felt. She said that judging by my reaction while telling her (I was a frigtened, bawlling mess, curled up in the chair) and the way the memory was stimulated (sensory memory she called it) that it was more than likely real.

So now I've got a completely blocked out 'memory' that came back to me at a most unopertune time, a family reuinion where I can see pictures of men who like the guy in my mind and where I would have been that age, in that place, with such a man, plus my therapist telling me that this is more than likely REAL & I'm still having a hard time accepting it!!!!

I've experienced A LOT in my life, too much if you ask me, and I find this one greatly disturbing and the hardest thing to absorb.

The 3 or 4 guys in the hotel room, I know that happened because I remember taking them there, I remember bits of and pieces, and I remember seeing the pictures they took of that night when I had the film developed a few weeks later. That was a drunken black out, so that's why I can't remember it; but I'm afraid to remember it too because something in mind tells me it may have been brutal- I'm not sure why that is, but for that reason alone I'm afraid to open that up!

So the kind of suppression you're describing, where you can remember but you don't want to- that would be like me and the guys in the hotel room. I knew it happened while it was happening, I didn't like what happened so I blocked it out. I saw the pictures a few weeks later and rememberd threw them away so I didn't have to remember, and I know this happened but I want to access that event. I understand what you mean in what you say because I did that too. ^Right^ there^. That's exactly what I did.

But what I'm trying to tell you, and help you understand is that also happens in much different way. A way were you have no IDEA AT ALL that anything could have possibly happened AT ALL! You completely don't know. There's no suggestion to it happening, or any kind of reason to think it's even possible because it's so completely cut from all areas of conscious awareness. It's not something you'd rather forget/try to forget/don't want to remember. It's something you can't remember, or even know you need to remember because it's totally not even there.

I hope I explained this effectively because I DO see what you're saying, and what queen was saying as well. I do understand what you mean when you say, "I could remember but why would I want to?" that's supressing details of something of which you are aware of. But this extreme of suppression is something way different because there's not that 'I don't want to know' factor. There's literally NO factor at all because you don't know anything about it until it hits you & then you're very confused, doubt your self, question your self and feel like a fool because how could possibly forget something so serious???

I'm still trying to accept this as something that's possible fact; but I've not yet because I'm still in the process of questioning myself and how I could possibly forget. It feels fake, because how I could forget; but if I open it up and allow it to play through my mind I can see everything, feel every touch and it scares me.

Anyways, Tad, I'm sorry for blabbering on on your thread so much; but as someone who does have these kinds of suppressive issues, I'm trying to help others understand it.

Peace y'all
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth~Oscar Wilde

Ideologies separate us. Dreams and anguish bring us together~Eugene Ionesco

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Re: Opinions Needed-Calling All Nons And HPD's

Postby TadLock » Wed Aug 31, 2011 3:37 pm

AliceWonders wrote:

But what I'm trying to tell you, and help you understand is that also happens in much different way. A way were you have no IDEA AT ALL that anything could have possibly happened AT ALL! You completely don't know. There's no suggestion to it happening, or any kind of reason to think it's even possible because it's so completely cut from all areas of conscious awareness. It's not something you'd rather forget/try to forget/don't want to remember. It's something you can't remember, or even know you need to remember because it's totally not even there.

But this extreme of suppression is something way different because there's not that 'I don't want to know' factor. There's literally NO factor at all because you don't know anything about it until it hits you & then you're very confused, doubt your self, question your self and feel like a fool because how could possibly forget something so serious???




What you are describing above, that is what I am referring to and interested in. Like other posters said, there is stuff we block out because we don't want to remember it. Our minds help us too I think, but what we are talking about, alice, in this post is the heart of what I was trying to get to.

This type of amnesia, if we could call it that. You see, it happened to me once...not to the degree of your situation, but I got into a nasty fight with my ex, and after we made up I literally forgot pieces of why we fought. A lot of it was erased from my mind, even to the point I have no idea why we fought.

It was like all I could recall was us making up. The cause of the fight and what led up to it was gone. That was the only time that ever happened to me. I'm glad it did or I would never have believed it was possible.

I wonder what causes that?
"Misery Is A Stench Of The Human Mind-" Lady Gaga
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Re: Opinions Needed-Calling All Nons And HPD's

Postby AliceWonders » Wed Aug 31, 2011 5:47 pm

TadLock wrote:I wonder what causes that?

Tad,

I'm so glad you asked that, and in the way you did because I googled Supression vs. Amnesia, and came up a whole host of stuff to look into!!!!

This here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychogenic_amnesia
I find facinating!!! Because it describes (in a way) how my fragmentation could have been developed and affected by Psychogenic Amnesia.
See Here:
There are two types of psychogenic amnesia, global and situation-specific.[6][7] Global amnesia, also known as fugue state, refers to a sudden loss of personal identity that lasts a few hours to days,[4] and is typically preceded by severe stress and/or depressed mood. Fugue state is very rare, and usually resolves over time, often helped by therapy.[5] In most cases, patients lose their autobiographical memory and personal identity even though they are able to learn new information and perform everyday functions normally. Other times, there may be a loss of basic semantic knowledge and procedural skills such as reading and writing.[6] Situation-specific amnesia occurs as a result of a severely stressful event, as in post-traumatic stress disorder, child sex abuse, military combat[8] or witnessing a family member's murder or suicide, and is somewhat common in cases of severe and/or repeated trauma.[9][10][11][12]
:shock: WOW! huh???

I also found:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Retrograde_amnesia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Memory_inhibition
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recovered_memory
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychogenic_fugue (more geared towards what I'm looking at along side this)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Childhood_amnesia

To add a bit more, I checked into sensory memory and found this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sensory_memory


I'm not sure; but this could greatly explain why most of my childhood is missing in memory, and why I am the way I am in many places mentally :o

WOW!

Had you not asked what the difference is- I don't think I would have even cared to cross reference the 2 or ever found any of this info at all.

Thank you for that!
Much to look into here!!!!

Jese I wish RC and Wisdom were around to see this, get their take on it!
The mind is so fascinating!!!!!

I love psychology! :mrgreen:

Thanks!!! SO MUCH for asking that question :mrgreen:
WOW!
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth~Oscar Wilde

Ideologies separate us. Dreams and anguish bring us together~Eugene Ionesco

Once you chose hope anything is possible~ Christopher Reeves
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Re: Opinions Needed-Calling All Nons And HPD's

Postby TadLock » Wed Aug 31, 2011 8:22 pm

AliceWonders wrote:
TadLock wrote:I wonder what causes that?

Tad,

I'm so glad you asked that, and in the way you did because I googled Supression vs. Amnesia, and came up a whole host of stuff to look into!!!!

This here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychogenic_amnesia
I find facinating!!! Because it describes (in a way) how my fragmentation could have been developed and affected by Psychogenic Amnesia.
See Here:
There are two types of psychogenic amnesia, global and situation-specific.[6][7] Global amnesia, also known as fugue state, refers to a sudden loss of personal identity that lasts a few hours to days,[4] and is typically preceded by severe stress and/or depressed mood. Fugue state is very rare, and usually resolves over time, often helped by therapy.[5] In most cases, patients lose their autobiographical memory and personal identity even though they are able to learn new information and perform everyday functions normally. Other times, there may be a loss of basic semantic knowledge and procedural skills such as reading and writing.[6] Situation-specific amnesia occurs as a result of a severely stressful event, as in post-traumatic stress disorder, child sex abuse, military combat[8] or witnessing a family member's murder or suicide, and is somewhat common in cases of severe and/or repeated trauma.[9][10][11][12]
:shock: WOW! huh???

I also found:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Retrograde_amnesia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Memory_inhibition
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recovered_memory
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychogenic_fugue (more geared towards what I'm looking at along side this)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Childhood_amnesia

To add a bit more, I checked into sensory memory and found this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sensory_memory


I'm not sure; but this could greatly explain why most of my childhood is missing in memory, and why I am the way I am in many places mentally :o

WOW!

Had you not asked what the difference is- I don't think I would have even cared to cross reference the 2 or ever found any of this info at all.

Thank you for that!
Much to look into here!!!!

Jese I wish RC and Wisdom were around to see this, get their take on it!
The mind is so fascinating!!!!!

I love psychology! :mrgreen:

Thanks!!! SO MUCH for asking that question :mrgreen:
WOW!


Hi Alice,

Thank you very much for sharing your revelation. There is a lot of gold in it. Looks like we have some digging to do to find it all and to comprehend it correctly. Amnesia was something I didn't believe in before (years ago). I always thought, "how in the hell can someone make you forget something". But then I was exposed to a certain group of people who believed in it. They did it intentionally, but they also taught it could happen by accident.

So I think with my ex something happened where amnesia was created by accident. I literally to this day have no idea why she screamed at me and threw our engagement ring at me. I don't know what event led to the fight. All I remember is her outburst. So it happened to me on a small scale.

A mentor I have believes that our unconscious minds will intentionally create amnesia sometimes in order to protect us from traumatic events (different from blocking them out, but that it will literally wipe them out intentionally). He gets into the opposition of making people remember repressed ofr blocked out memories because according to him that person kicked in a natural defense mechanism and we ought not interfere with it.

AS for hypnosis and amnesia. I know of a few crimes that have been solved that way. The witness/or hostage was under so much distress or excitement or whatever...that they forgot what actually happened. Or they had "partial amnesia", so they remembered the crime but totally forgot what the person looked like-even though they saw and spoke with the person. They forgot the color of the car the criminal drove off in, even though they saw it. So under those circumstances I know hypnosis has been used to cause/enable a person to access memories that were dulled out through amnesia.

Well Alice, guess I have a lot of reading to do with those links. A lot of information to chew on...
"Misery Is A Stench Of The Human Mind-" Lady Gaga
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Re: Opinions Needed-Calling All Nons And HPD's

Postby AliceWonders » Thu Sep 01, 2011 2:19 am

Thanks Tad :D

I was actually so excited about this that I sent a text to Beth asker her what she thought about it as a possibile explenation behind some of my missing past, severe self fragmentation/identity defussion, and how I could have possibly had no idea at all about the mullet man, and God knows what else lurks there in the dark...

She's looking into it, and since we haven't gone too far into my fragmentation (pieces) as of yet, much of this is still unexplored; but she's looking and seeing if it could fit :wink:

I've come to a point where I don't really care what I find (diagnosticly/symptomaticly/like that) because whatever it is- it is. Whatever happened- happened, and no matter what it is there's always a way to make it better/more managable- right?

I like knowing what things are so that I can better understand why they happen, how they happen and I find that gives me come sense of peace in excepting them. As I told Beth, whether this is something that applies to me or not, it's fascinating and I intend to look into it further to find more info- for that reason alone :mrgreen:

I did find a few more links of info (off wikipedia) in regaurds to this kind of amnesia. Apparently the term 'Psychogenic Amnesia' has been changed to 'Dissociative Amnesia' in the DSM-V (possibly iv as well) and I found the new propsed revisions for it, alnog with the old description:

Proposed Revision | APA DSM-5
There are two primary forms of Dissociative Amnesia: … 1) localized amnesia for a specific event or events, and (2) Dissociative Fugue: generalized amnesi … Dissociative Amnesia (formerly Psychogenic Amnesia)
http://www.dsm5.org/proposedrevision/pa ... spx?rid=55


Dissociative Amnesia
A. Inability to recall important personal information, usually of a traumatic or stressful nature, that is inconsistent with ordinary forgetting. Note: There are two primary forms of Dissociative Amnesia: (1) localized amnesia for a specific event or events, and (2) Dissociative Fugue: generalized amnesia for identity and life history. Fugue may be accompanied by either purposeful travel or bewildered wandering.
B. The symptoms cause clinically significant distress or impairment in social, occupational, or other important areas of functioning.
C. The memory loss is not due to the direct physiological effects of a substance (e.g., a drug of abuse, a medication) or a neurological or other general medical condition (e.g., Amnestic Disorder Due to Head Trauma).
D. The memory loss is not restricted to the symptoms of another mental disorder (e.g., inability to remember an important aspect of the traumatic event in Posttraumatic Stress Disorder or Acute Stress Disorder, or amnesia occurring as a symptom of Dissociative Identity Disorder or Somatization Disorder).
Specify if:
Dissociative Fugue subtype:
1. Amnesia includes inability to recall one’s past, confusion about personal identity, or assumption of a new identity (partial or complete)
2. Sudden, unexpected travel away from home or work.

Dissociative Amnesia (formerly Psychogenic Amnesia) as per DSM-4*
A. The predominant disturbance is one or more episodes of inability to recall important personal information, usually of a traumatic or stressful nature, that is too extensive to be explained by ordinary forgetfulness.
B. The disturbance does not occur exclusively during the course of Dissociative Identity Disorder, Dissociative Fugue, Posttraumatic Stress Disorder, Acute Stress Disorder, or Somatization Disorder and is not due to the direct physiological effects of a substance (e.g., a drug of abuse, a medication) or a neurological or other general medical condition (e.g., Amnestic Disorder Due to Head Trauma).
C. The symptoms cause clinically significant distress or impairment in social, occupational, or other important areas of functioning


And another bit more specifically on 'infatile amnesia' here: http://www.enotes.com/psychoanalysis-en ... le-amnesia


This is something I seriously can't wait to crack open! :mrgreen:

If you find anything else interesting relating to this area yourself, please let me know and I'll be more then happy to do the same :D

Thanks Again
~Alice
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth~Oscar Wilde

Ideologies separate us. Dreams and anguish bring us together~Eugene Ionesco

Once you chose hope anything is possible~ Christopher Reeves
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