alters vs. ego states

I hope it's OK that I keep asking questions? It's just that I can't find the answer in other places.

I wonder - how do you know the difference between a co-conscious switch and an ego state change? With 'ego states' I mean what everyone has, not the alternative name for alters.

Here is what I asked somewhere else (answered by Cassandra):

tomboy24 wrote:

oaktree wrote:I had one time what I can only explain by that I had a switch at that moment. I had an appointment to talk about my lag in some courses (I'm studying at a university). The whole day I was very confused, very 'away'. I have this very often, but then it was much worse than usual. I knew this was not good for that appointment. And when it was nearly time, I suddenly saw the world in a completely different way. At once I was very rational, nearly emotion-less. The confusion of before that wasn't completely away, but it was enough away that I could have a very 'rational' talk. And at that moment, I could less relate to my problems at other times. I have such things more often, but less distinct, and it's more like that I see afterwards "hey, wait, yay! I'm finally more open."

Yes, that's definitely a very possible switch. I've experienced similar situations many, many times. This type of switching is actually most common in people who are more co-conscious, because it's easier for the alters to sort of act through the host instead of forcing themselves out in front of the host in order to take care of situations.

I have such changes more often, but usually I only notice afterwards that I have 'changed' (the changes are sometimes very noticeable, but may also be more fluent, and sometimes I just don't know in which state I am - somewhere 'in between' I think).

Edit: I don't lose time (as far as I know, or too short to notice), my name, history etc. stays the same, so the more obvious symptoms aren't there. There also doesn't appear strange handwriting in my 'diary' and I don't know of any post under my username of which I am not aware (please PM me if they do appear )

I'm not the best with psychology sh*t, so don't pay too much attention to me.

From how I understand it, ego states are kinda like mood swings. You'll shift and you might notice it, but you're not going be like "woah, that was weird". You're going to be like "woah, was I cranky" or "man, was I in a good mood until now", ya know, stuff like that. You usually don't realize stuff like mood changes that much, but when you do, it's something like "you know, I was really down until this happened", and that's what an ego state is like I think (when you notice it).

From how I see it, you won't be like "woah, I was different", and you won't feel confused or "away", or any bullsh*t like that. That stuff usually means there's a switch happenin', or it already happened, or somethin'. The stuff you're describing sounds closer to switching, not ego states.

~ReBeL

I'm not an expert, but I think a switch feels more like 'someone else is driving'. Like, even if you wanted to snap out of the mood or stop the behaviour you couldn't. And you might behave out of character, or hear yourself saying things you wouldn't normally say, but you can't stop yourself, like you're pushed back and observing, rather than in control. Sometimes you might not remember exactly what was said or done afterwards, it might be kind of hazy.

Guess when a switch happens, we do feel like we're different people, sometimes I feel like a few people in one body, like someone else is just beneath me trying to surface when someone else is already in control at the time, then I might lose that control and someone else (one of the others will come out 'to play') and ill feel shuvved to the side and go into the back ground. Sometimes I feel I can allow one of the others to take priority and its better not to argue. Other times I don't think I can control it, as we don't have one person that's always in control or anything.

I feel like a chameleon that's changing colours
Nickname - switchy

oaktree wrote:Edit: I don't lose time (as far as I know, or too short to notice), my name, history etc. stays the same, so the more obvious symptoms aren't there. There also doesn't appear strange handwriting in my 'diary' and I don't know of any post under my username of which I am not aware (please PM me if they do appear )

You don't have to lose time to switch, especially if you/your system is co-conscious with each other. That means that even though there's switches happening, they're usually not that obvious/noticeable, the more obvious symptoms might not be there, and everyone's still aware of everything that's happening despite having someone else that's "fronting"/"mainly in control". Remember- DID is a very personal disorder. Not everyone changes their name or history, not everyone makes posts that they're not aware of, and not everyone has different handwritings.

The time that I lose is seconds, maybe minutes, stuff that you'd never notice unless you really looked for it and thought about it. (I did used to convince myself that I did lose time because I hated knowing what happened outside of my control). But then again, my "main" alters and I have always been co-conscious to some level, and it seems my system in general is co-conscious to some level (at least with me, the host). Now that I'm aware of it and know what to look for, I'm starting to realize just how much alters come out "through" me. Like, I'm still there, I won't lose time, I'm not out of control or anything, but I'll feel slightly "fuzzy" and I'll do stuff or say stuff that I look back on and am like "I don't usually do/say that", or something like that, and then I'll realize "Ah, that wasn't me".

Either way, it sounds like you have DDNOS at the very least, and aren't experiencing "just" ego states or anything like that.

Swithing... The idea is still strange to me, because it doesn't feel like a different me is in control. I still have control over what I do (largely, sometimes I just walk in a direction I don't intent. Looks probably strange. But I correct as soon as I notice it).
I'm sometimes unable to do/say something (usually when I want to try something new). Can get annoying. Hint: this happens EVERY SINGLE TIME I try to say something about my suspecting DDNOS/DID.

you might behave out of character

Yes, that's what can happen in a different state. I try to correct that as much as possible. It's not like I'm locked out of control, but mostly the subconscious movements change. And it feels fake to correct consciously.

Now that I'm aware of it and know what to look for, I'm starting to realize just how much alters come out "through" me. Like, I'm still there, I won't lose time, I'm not out of control or anything, but I'll feel slightly "fuzzy" and I'll do stuff or say stuff that I look back on and am like "I don't usually do/say that", or something like that, and then I'll realize "Ah, that wasn't me".

That's probably what I have too. Reminds me, I still have to send an email to correct that complain email which I sent too quick and was about something I misread... and I usually check such things much more careful.

I have one instance that might be lost time (a minute or so, probably not much more but I don't know from which point I have memory). I couldn't find my jacket that day. Turned out that I had hung it at a different place than usual. I don't remember hanging it there. But I do know that I was very confused right before it (hint!) and I had a feeling of which I thought at that moment that another was trying to take over... Maybe I was right then.
Another hint: writing that event caused some undefined emotion. I guess someone knows more about this.

I don't have much control over those switches/changes. I can't say 'now I want to get into that other state'. It seems to happen somewhat randomly, but sometimes it has a cause that I know of. For example, certain music helped with the switch/change, but it doesn't work anymore, unfortunately (used too often I think). Going to certain places may work too. Is this possible with ego state changes? Just curious...

Thank you all for your responses. I guess I will sort this all out one time. Sometimes I just wish there was some objective proof, like a strange handwriting appearing in my diary without me knowing about. Or that it would all go away, but not this hanging inbetween.

I guess I really must start accepting this... and get a good therapist which knows about DDNOS/DID and can diagnose me.

oaktree wrote:Swithing... The idea is still strange to me, because it doesn't feel like a different me is in control. I still have control over what I do (largely, sometimes I just walk in a direction I don't intent. Looks probably strange. But I correct as soon as I notice it).
I'm sometimes unable to do/say something (usually when I want to try something new). Can get annoying. Hint: this happens EVERY SINGLE TIME I try to say something about my suspecting DDNOS/DID.

It doesn't always feel like a different you is in control, and sometimes for people it maybe never feels that way. It all depends on you and your system. Especially when you're still getting used to the idea of it, you're still viewing it as something that "just happens" or that is "normal", not something with a name/label such as switching or anything like that. It might change the more you become aware of things and the more you're able to accept things.

Being unable to say/do something is a huge hint of DID/DDNOS. ESPECIALLY since it happens consistently when you try to talk about your DID/DDNOS suspicions. That to me is HUGE proof that you have DDNOS/DID. It's also normal for stuff like that to happen, by the way.

oaktree wrote:Yes, that's what can happen in a different state. I try to correct that as much as possible. It's not like I'm locked out of control, but mostly the subconscious movements change. And it feels fake to correct consciously.

Another big hint for DDNOS/DID.

oaktree wrote:I have one instance that might be lost time (a minute or so, probably not much more but I don't know from which point I have memory). I couldn't find my jacket that day. Turned out that I had hung it at a different place than usual. I don't remember hanging it there. But I do know that I was very confused right before it (hint!) and I had a feeling of which I thought at that moment that another was trying to take over... Maybe I was right then.
Another hint: writing that event caused some undefined emotion. I guess someone knows more about this.

THIS is the type of stuff I was talking about. It's nothing very noticeable, and can be easily mistaken for "normal" forgetting sometimes until you look back on it. The confusion right before you hung your jacket is another HUGE sign of DDNOS/DID, and the same goes for how writing this caused an undefined emotion.

oaktree wrote:I don't have much control over those switches/changes. I can't say 'now I want to get into that other state'. It seems to happen somewhat randomly, but sometimes it has a cause that I know of. For example, certain music helped with the switch/change, but it doesn't work anymore, unfortunately (used too often I think). Going to certain places may work too. Is this possible with ego state changes? Just curious...

Thank you all for your responses. I guess I will sort this all out one time. Sometimes I just wish there was some objective proof, like a strange handwriting appearing in my diary without me knowing about. Or that it would all go away, but not this hanging inbetween.

I guess I really must start accepting this... and get a good therapist which knows about DDNOS/DID and can diagnose me.

It's common for people to not have control over switches/changes, especially early on. I had to do a lot of communication work, awareness work, and compromising work to get more control over my switching and to be able to switch at-will with most of my "main group" alters (still far away from that with my "secondary group" alters, but I'm working on it).

Music could still work, you just might have to find different songs for it to work with. It might be that you used certain songs too much.

No. To my knowledge, this doesn't happen with ego states. What you're describing is stuff that triggers a switch or a part of you to at least "come forward", that only deals with DDNOS/DID.

It might help to start keeping a record of when you experience stuff like this. When, what you were doing when it happened, and possible reasons for why. You might find patterns you never saw before, and it could help you start to organize things that you can recognize as "warning signs" and other things- stuff that you can identify like "I'm feeling this, so that probably means this is happening".

This is never going to go away. It might for a little bit, but it'll be back, and you'll be pretty much back at square one if you let yourself ignore it and stuff.

Usually people with no "concrete proof" have either a co-conscious system or they have DDNOS. Just remember- everyone different. Just because there seems to be no "concrete proof" yet, doesn't mean it's not real. There's more proof that points towards you having DDNOS/DID than there is pointing towards you not having it, think of it that way. You have a lot of stuff saying DDNOS/DID is a possibility, and not a lot of stuff to say that it isn't a possibility.

Definitely start seeking out a therapist who's familiar with dissociative disorders for a diagnosis. If you're able to, get someone who specializes in dissociative disorders, mainly DDNOS/DID if it's possible. Despite getting prepared, don't be afraid to go at your own pace. I wouldn't wait too long, but if you feel you need to wait a bit before getting a diagnosis, that's understandable.

This is a really good thread on this subject, I think.

lifelongthing: it took a few times before I saw that you posted a link. I have read it before, but it didn't make it much clearer for me. I think I now understand what the difference is.
It becomes confusing when the term ego state is used for alters, and then the difference between ego states and alters is explained... Also hard to search for information when those terms are mixed up.

Yeah, I will definitely try to get me diagnosed. And, to my denial: if it turns out I'm not dissociative, the test will reveal that.

The only thing I have to say about that is be careful about evaluation tests and such. Try to be very "in-tune" with yourself when you do it, and remind yourself of all the times you'd had dissociative experiences and stuff like that. When I was evaluated, I felt fine and I even started to wonder why I was there if I felt so "normal". But then I remembered- I don't feel that way outside of the evaluation or the counseling office, and now that I look back on it I realized it was a defensive mechanism, to try and prevent exposure of the system and to try to be as "normal" and "ok" as possible, despite actually not being "ok". I had to really remind myself of the stuff I'd experienced and I had to really think about some questions in order to answer them correctly. I'm not trying to scare you or make you nervous, because this sort of thing doesn't happen to everyone, I'm just saying to remind yourself of your experiences and keep them in mind the whole time.