Saying "You should kill yourself" - Is it ever forgivable?

My girlfriends teenage son is a terrible kid. Hes almost 19, and completely disrespectful all the time. He is constantly yelling and swearing at his mom. He steals her stuff. He drinks and smokes dope. He doesnt go to school. He never had a job. He just sits in his room all day long, every day and plays games on his x-box or plays on his computer. He constantly threatens to runaway but never does. One day he tried and all he did was just hid in his stairwell til his grandfather found him there. He threatens to kill himself and never has done anything. Each and everytime he threatens to runaway, his mom (my girlfriend) just begs him not to. She bends over backwards for this rotten kid, and he never does anything decent in return.

We used to live together


This story is much too long to post all the info possible for you all to see each and every angle possible to our relationships so here is the consolidated question...

He doesnt want me with his mom, and/or at the house. He told his mom, I dont want him in my house! I'm gonna runaway! His mom said now calm down and stop this...thats about all she said. He was threatening to hurt me with a board, and a knife on New Years Eve. I walked away, and he kept coming to me and provoking me. Finally I blew a gasket, and I told him he's a manipulative little prick by using that attention seeking statements of "I'm gonna runaway, and I'm gonna kill myself" I said go ahead and runaway, and kill yourself while youre at it you worthless miserable piece of $#%^!

Ok, so now I finally realize that my words that I spew in my moments of anger are very bad. I do finally believe that I am a verbal abuser and should definitely get help because I know I hurt people worse than I ever imagined until just now. My girlfriend (his mom) cannot believe I said those words. I cant believe I did either. I love kids. I have two of my own. I am strict but have a great relationship with my 2 kids even though when they piss me off sometimes I say things a little rougher than others may also.

I was just wondering if it is possible to be forgiven and for things to ever get back to normal after saying something so brutally harsh?

I really did not mean to say that. I definitely dont hope that he would ever do something so foolish but I do believe that I am starting to hate the kid. I feel like he has complete control of my relationship with my girlfriend and I who I would love to marry one day soon.

I need some unbiased feedback from others here who may have been thru something of this nature. I just really wonder if this is forgivable from both her and him...and also if it is possible for our relationsip to continue or if there is too much damage to both mom and son that I screwed everything up?

Hi VerbalAbuser,

Personally, I think everything is in theory forgivable, and every person who commits a hurtful act can redeem him/herself. But in practice, it depends upon the person who has to find the forgiveness. Some people have 'lines' and if a person crosses them, they mag believe that person should be cut-off or never trusted again. This can be a way of protecting themselves from future harm. The more secure and comfortable within themself a person is, the more likely they are to forgive.

It sounds like your girlfriend's son is in a bad place at the moment, and is not at all happy. I would not expect him to forgive you any time soon. Try not to blame him for this. He is already struggling with his own problems - he probably doesn't have enough coping resources for himself, let alone any spare to offer you.

VerbalAbuser wrote:My girlfriends teenage son is a terrible kid.

What makes him "terrible"? This seems quite a harsh judgement to make on a 19-year-old boy. Maybe it's just his behaviour that is terrible, and he's acting-out for a reason. Rather than see him as the source of some problem, try to flip it around and see that he may also be a victim. His own behaviour is probably hurting him too.

VerbalAbuser wrote:She bends over backwards for this rotten kid, and he never does anything decent in return.

Why is this such a problem for you? Are you jealous of the attention she gives to her son? Are you angry at the son because you cannot protect your girlfriend from his bad behaviour? It seems you have very strong feelings about this, but I can't see what's wrong about a mother giving to her child and getting nothing in return. Isn't that the whole point of unconditional love - that you love someone even if they don't behave well? If she is happy in doing that, then where's the problem?

What about you VerbalAbuser, are you ready to forgive your girlfriend's son? Are you prepared to stop calling him "rotten" and "terrible" and realise that his behaviour may be no more deliberately hurtful than your telling him he should kill himself? You are the older and wiser man in this situation, and you can lead by example here.

Hi Platypus,

Thank you for your very thought provoking reply. You sure sound like you are very knowledgable in the psychological field and I appreciate your time here with my problem.

Platypus wrote: The more secure and comfortable within themself a person is, the more likely they are to forgive.

If this statement is accurate then this makes 100% total sense to me. I believe he hates himself, so it makes sense that he doesnt have the strength to forgive right now. Pretty enlightening because as I think of it I am placing this same theory right now with my girlfriend who has issues of her own that make her very insecure and unhappy...maybe thats why she is having such a terrible time understanding my fault and forgiving me too.

Platypus wrote:It sounds like your girlfriend's son is in a bad place at the moment, and is not at all happy. I would not expect him to forgive you any time soon. Try not to blame him for this. He is already struggling with his own problems - he probably doesn't have enough coping resources for himself, let alone any spare to offer you.

This reinforces your last statement...this makes it alot more undrstandable to me.

Platypus wrote:What makes him "terrible"? This seems quite a harsh judgement to make on a 19-year-old boy. Maybe it's just his behaviour that is terrible, and he's acting-out for a reason. Rather than see him as the source of some problem, try to flip it around and see that he may also be a victim. His own behaviour is probably hurting him too.

You're right. There is my talking/writing without thinking again. No, he is not at all a terrible kid. He is just doing a lot of terrible things, and yes I guess he does have alot of his own problems that may make him feel like he is a victim also. Dad got remarried and started a new family without really spending too much quality time with him in last 10 years. He moved in with dad and new mom and new mom kicked him out after only 2 months of him acting out in front of their new child. His mom never really disciplined him or taught him responsibility. Not so great of social skills. Not so great of skills at all. I taught him how to make a sandwich for the first time last year because mom always did everything for him...etc. So, yes he is hurting too.

Platypus wrote:Why is this such a problem for you? Are you jealous of the attention she gives to her son? Are you angry at the son because you cannot protect your girlfriend from his bad behaviour? It seems you have very strong feelings about this, but I can't see what's wrong about a mother giving to her child and getting nothing in return. Isn't that the whole point of unconditional love - that you love someone even if they don't behave well? If she is happy in doing that, then where's the problem?

Maybe a little bit of both. Maybe I am a bit jealous of how mom waits on this kid who should be an adult by hand and foot and he takes her for granted and still yells and swears at her. and Yes, I do want to protect her from this behavior. She comes to me all the time in ocnstant turmoil about her sad and helpless feelings about her sons behavior towards her So, yes I really feel like I want to protect her from this terrible behavior. Unconditional love I understand but I truly believe in a little tough love once in awhile also. After he was kicked out of his dads last summer, his mom said se would never ever kick him out and I believe he has taken full advantage of her position on that subject to the point of walking around the house threatening her boyfriend with a board that he has to leave because he might get upset. So yeah I guess jealous of the control he has over me in this relationship is really getting to me. But unconditional love from a mom to her son is great...not total control though. There has to be limits set, IMO.

Platypus wrote:What about you VerbalAbuser, are you ready to forgive your girlfriend's son? Are you prepared to stop calling him "rotten" and "terrible" and realise that his behaviour may be no more deliberately hurtful than your telling him he should kill himself? You are the older and wiser man in this situation, and you can lead by example here.

Yes, of course I am willing to forgive and forget. We had an pretty big fight a few months back and this was my first interaction with him and my first actions were trying to give him a coupla christmas presents. So, I tried forgiving him on New Years Eve. Maybe that is why I got so angry. I forgave him for the stupid things he did on our last blowout and he was unwilling to forgive me...which was very hard for me to understand since I am so forgiving. and yes I DO have to stop saying he is "rotten" and "terrible". That is what I need to work on here and elsewhere.

I know I am suppose to be the older and wiser one but I am sure I have my own issues that I have never dealt with and I am putting im in the same category as me since he is now considered an adult. Thats probably not fair since I have lived a lot more life than him so...I have some growing up to do myself. Looks like I am the terrible one here.

VerbalAbuser wrote:You sure sound like you are very knowledgable in the psychological field and I appreciate your time here with my problem.

Thanks, and you're welcome. In truth, I'm not knowledgeable about psychology at all, but I've had my own family dramas to try to understand, and I've picked-up tips by reading posts on this site.

VerbalAbuser wrote:Pretty enlightening because as I think of it I am placing this same theory right now with my girlfriend who has issues of her own that make her very insecure and unhappy...maybe thats why she is having such a terrible time understanding my fault and forgiving me too.

Yes, I think you are right. Also, be aware that the more tension there is between you and her son, the more she may feel she has to choose a side. As she will have strong feelings for both of you, this will probably be very uncomfortable and difficult for her. However, as her son is her child and it sounds like he is still dependent upon her, if pressured, she may well choose him over you. Try not to put her in that position. Don't ask her to forgive you and place the blame on her son instead.

VerbalAbuser wrote:You're right. There is my talking/writing without thinking again. No, he is not at all a terrible kid. He is just doing a lot of terrible things, and yes I guess he does have alot of his own problems that may make him feel like he is a victim also. Dad got remarried and started a new family without really spending too much quality time with him in last 10 years. He moved in with dad and new mom and new mom kicked him out after only 2 months of him acting out in front of their new child. His mom never really disciplined him or taught him responsibility. Not so great of social skills. Not so great of skills at all. I taught him how to make a sandwich for the first time last year because mom always did everything for him...etc. So, yes he is hurting too.

I think it's really good that you can see this perspective too. Try to remember it when you are angry with him. It sounds like he's a bit trapped at the moment, and doesn't have the skills necessary to do more with his life. Do you think he'd ever be interested in talking to a therapist? Or getting a part-time job? I'm guessing he doesn't have much self-esteem, and anything that gives him hope and lets him see he has more opportunities in life might be helpful for him..

VerbalAbuser wrote:Maybe a little bit of both. Maybe I am a bit jealous of how mom waits on this kid who should be an adult by hand and foot and he takes her for granted and still yells and swears at her. and Yes, I do want to protect her from this behavior. She comes to me all the time in ocnstant turmoil about her sad and helpless feelings about her sons behavior towards her So, yes I really feel like I want to protect her from this terrible behavior. Unconditional love I understand but I truly believe in a little tough love once in awhile also. After he was kicked out of his dads last summer, his mom said se would never ever kick him out and I believe he has taken full advantage of her position on that subject to the point of walking around the house threatening her boyfriend with a board that he has to leave because he might get upset. So yeah I guess jealous of the control he has over me in this relationship is really getting to me. But unconditional love from a mom to her son is great...not total control though. There has to be limits set, IMO.

Yes I agree, but the same should apply to you and your girlfriend, yeah? You can tell her that you think she needs to impose some discipline and set boundaries on acceptable behaviour. But in the end, she's the one who has to do it - not you. It is her relationship with her son, so she needs to make the changes. I'm sure it must be very difficult to watch her get repeatedly hurt by her son, but instead of always comforting and commiserating with her, give her some tough love. Ask her what she is going to do about it. If she continues to do nothing, then that is her choice, so perhaps she should stop complaining to you about it.

VerbalAbuser wrote:So, I tried forgiving him on New Years Eve. Maybe that is why I got so angry. I forgave him for the stupid things he did on our last blowout and he was unwilling to forgive me...which was very hard for me to understand since I am so forgiving.

Yes, that makes sense to me. You have had to watch your girlfriend be unhappy and tolerate her son's bad behaviour for some time, and have no doubt had to listen to all her complaints about him. I imagine it would have been very frustrating, especially if there has been no sign of the situation improving. But despite all that, you forgave him anyway, and then you got nothing in return. So all this frustration you've been carrying around may have escaped in that verbal abuse where you said he should kill himself.

So step back, and stop taking-on all your girlfriend's problems. Maybe you could encourage her to get a therapist, or use somebody else (a friend or relative etc.) for support. You can't be the one she vents to all the time. And if she's not interested in doing anything about her dysfunctional relationship with her son, that is their problem. Don't let it become your burden where you get so frustrated and angry that you say something you regret.

Platypus wrote:Yes, I think you are right. Also, be aware that the more tension there is between you and her son, the more she may feel she has to choose a side. As she will have strong feelings for both of you, this will probably be very uncomfortable and difficult for her. However, as her son is her child and it sounds like he is still dependent upon her, if pressured, she may well choose him over you. Try not to put her in that position.

Well you've hit the nail on the head with this one. She has mentioned this many times about feeling like se has to take sides. She did this once before (between her ex and her father) and it tore her apart so reliving this all over again is really hurting her.

Platypus wrote:Don't ask her to forgive you and place the blame on her son instead.

I screwed up once again. I have done this over and over already. I really figured that her forgiveness was what was needed to move forward but I must be wrong. and yes, I have been blaming er son an awful lot. I know I was wrong in what I said but I believe he was still wrong in everything he said and did, especially the threatening me with a knife and a board.

Platypus wrote:I think it's really good that you can see this perspective too. Try to remember it when you are angry with him. It sounds like he's a bit trapped at the moment, and doesn't have the skills necessary to do more with his life. Do you think he'd ever be interested in talking to a therapist? Or getting a part-time job? I'm guessing he doesn't have much self-esteem, and anything that gives him hope and lets him see he has more opportunities in life might be helpful for him..

He has no self-esteem at all. He isnt interested in seeing a therapist at all. He says he does want a full time job but I dont see him doing much about it at all.

Platypus wrote:Yes I agree, but the same should apply to you and your girlfriend, yeah? You can tell her that you think she needs to impose some discipline and set boundaries on acceptable behaviour. But in the end, she's the one who has to do it - not you. It is her relationship with her son, so she needs to make the changes. I'm sure it must be very difficult to watch her get repeatedly hurt by her son, but instead of always comforting and commiserating with her, give her some tough love. Ask her what she is going to do about it. If she continues to do nothing, then that is her choice, so perhaps she should stop complaining to you about it.

I have tried many times to give her that tough love. Actually it has become another item of contention between us. I feel myself getting more and more angry with her because she tolerates his actions and does nothing about it.

Platypus wrote:So step back, and stop taking-on all your girlfriend's problems. Maybe you could encourage her to get a therapist, or use somebody else (a friend or relative etc.) for support. You can't be the one she vents to all the time. And if she's not interested in doing anything about her dysfunctional relationship with her son, that is their problem. Don't let it become your burden where you get so frustrated and angry that you say something you regret.

I do have to take a step back but that is so difficult for me. I love her to death, and we dont see each other at all lately. Not once since that NYE blowout. I am becoming depressed because of not being able to see her. I know I need to move forward but I just cant. I want to call her again today and ask her if we could possibly get together. She will probably say the same thing. Not today.

I asked her if she thought we were done, and she said she has to think about it.

I have been pretty sad since then and I really have no idea what to do next. Do I try contacting her son? Do I just walk away from her and hope that she eventually wants to get back together? I suck at fixing relationship problems and I feel like I always do the wrong thing at first which makes things muc harder to fix rather tan thinking long and hard about how to approach a broken relationship. Plus I am very impatient wich doesnt help. Sorry, I am rambling but this whole situation has made me pretty depressed.

VerbalAbuser wrote:I have been pretty sad since then and I really have no idea what to do next. Do I try contacting her son? Do I just walk away from her and hope that she eventually wants to get back together?

I would contact your girlfriend. But think carefully about what you want to say. It may be better to send her a note/email so that you can choose the words at your own pace. (Rather than talk on the phone or in person and find that in your frustration you blurt out something you didn't really want to say.) Also, if it's in writing, she has time to think about what you've written, so she may react with more 'heart' and less anger too.

I think you should apologise for trying to blame her son, and let her know that you realise it must have been hard for her to be caught in the middle. I would try to explain to her why you got so angry and frustrated - tell how much it hurts you to watch her be hurt by her son and tolerate his bad behaviour. You could even say that you wanted to protect her from that hurt, but didn't know how, so your frustration and anger grew until you couldn't contain it any more. Perhaps you could say that you want to help improve things with her son, but you don't know what you can do to help. And let her know that you love her.

Then let her respond in her own way. She may be willing to work things out with you, or she may not. If she chooses not to continue the relationship with you, it isn't necessarily your fault. She may not be ready to face-up to improving her relationship with her son. By being with you, there is pressure on her to do something to help her son and change that situation. That could be something she is afraid to do. So perhaps the easier option for her is to break-up with you. It would be a shame for all of you if that happens, but it is her choice.

VerbalAbuser wrote:I suck at fixing relationship problems and I feel like I always do the wrong thing at first which makes things muc harder to fix rather tan thinking long and hard about how to approach a broken relationship.

Don't be too hard on yourself. I'd take a guess that a lot of the problem is that you expect yourself to be able to "fix" relationships. A lot of men are 'fixers'. But in this situation, it's not really your problem to fix. You probably got so frustrated and angry in the first place because you expected to be able to fix your girlfriend's problems with her son, but couldn't.

Try to remember that it's not actually your responsibility to fix everything. Instead of being a fixer all the time, try to be more of a listener. Listeners don't have to fix anything. They can stay out of the mess and be impartial. But they listen to what people say and can give them support, sympathy, advice, or maybe a loving hug. When women complain, often they just want someone to listen to them and care for them.

Here is a pretty nice update. I consider myself lucky so far. I've contacted her everyday since NYE. and she said she would like to see me again but had reservations because she doesnt know if she could trust me anymore.

Well yesterday I called a psychologist and made an appointment for myself so I can learn to stop this verbal abuse pattern that is destroying me. The appointment is for next Thursday. Let me tell you, It cannot come quick enough.

She herself also saw a local Emotional needs type of support group at a local church and went to the meeting but unfortunately there was only one person there and the meeting never happened. She is going to look for another group to take part in so that is forward progress for her and her emotional needs which I am happy about.

So, we talked yeaterday and I told her about my scheduled appointment with the Psychologist, and I also told her I joined an online group that is helping me alot through this. That online group is here. I feel like I am really getting some decent help by reading these forums, and getting some feedback too, So, I want to do my best to stay active here because it is very therapeautic to me.

I also told her that I honestly for the first time in my life recognize the nature of my problem and definitely dont plan on stopping watever it takes to get rid of this awful problem.

Luckily, she actually wanted to see me. She was hesitant but still she came by and we talked for a little bit, then went to see a movie. It was nice holding her hand again at the movie.

platypus wrote: I think you should apologise for trying to blame her son, and let her know that you realise it must have been hard for her to be caught in the middle. I would try to explain to her why you got so angry and frustrated - tell how much it hurts you to watch her be hurt by her son and tolerate his bad behaviour. You could even say that you wanted to protect her from that hurt, but didn't know how, so your frustration and anger grew until you couldn't contain it any more. Perhaps you could say that you want to help improve things with her son, but you don't know what you can do to help. And let her know that you love her.

I was able to tell her all of these things and I really appreciate your help. These are my honest feelings and they seem like common sense but for some reason I couldnt come up with all of this myself. Thank You.

platypus wrote:Then let her respond in her own way. She may be willing to work things out with you, or she may not. If she chooses not to continue the relationship with you, it isn't necessarily your fault. She may not be ready to face-up to improving her relationship with her son. By being with you, there is pressure on her to do something to help her son and change that situation. That could be something she is afraid to do. So perhaps the easier option for her is to break-up with you. It would be a shame for all of you if that happens, but it is her choice.

I am trying to be very non-demanding. It is hard since I always try to influence the results and need to do so immediately usually. She is very fearful that I wont change, and I dont blame her. I know I need time and a lot of work, and I am gonna do my damned-est to try to always remember that.

She has another issue now though. She feels guilty as hell for seeing me last night. She lied to her son about what she was doing. She said she was going to a movie by herself. She said that if she told him that she was seeing me, that would be awful because he would be upset with her, and it would also be telling him that it is ok for me to treat him that way. She feels terrible about having to do that. Of course, I disagree but I didnt argue that point. I just dont want her feeling that way...like I am her dirty little secret, and her son would feel betrayed for her seeing me. There is another source of my confusion, another thing I wish could fix. I know its not possible but I should just be happy I am able to see her.

platypus wrote:Don't be too hard on yourself. I'd take a guess that a lot of the problem is that you expect yourself to be able to "fix" relationships. A lot of men are 'fixers'. But in this situation, it's not really your problem to fix. You probably got so frustrated and angry in the first place because you expected to be able to fix your girlfriend's problems with her son, but couldn't.

Try to remember that it's not actually your responsibility to fix everything. Instead of being a fixer all the time, try to be more of a listener. Listeners don't have to fix anything. They can stay out of the mess and be impartial. But they listen to what people say and can give them support, sympathy, advice, or maybe a loving hug. When women complain, often they just want someone to listen to them and care for them.

I really have to remember this. I am thinking that I need to come back here everyday and re-read this entire thread each day until I completely think this way naturally.

Of course, I would love to get her sons forgiveness but that is waaay down the road. I need to fix myself and my relationship with mom first.

He dropped out of his first semester of college. He got sick and he doesnt really know if he wants to go back because he has gotten comfortable at home but just in case, She is having difficulty with money for his college so I told her I would pay for his first semester. That is just a way I could help him and her and also show that I do care about him too, and kindof a way to say I am sorry. Of course she said she wouldnt tell him that I paid because he probably wouldnt go, but if it did happen he could be told one day after he completed that semester. I'm sure she liked the fact that I offered. It does take that huge financial problem off of her back, which would make me feel very good about. I guess there is that "fixer" in me again. lol

Take what you life, leave the rest..

I don't have enough info to give a complete rational opinion, I have to go on what has been posted.
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terrible kid.


He is constantly yelling and swearing at his mom. Why!

He doesn't go to school. He never had a job. Why!

He just sits in his room all day long Why!

He constantly threatens to runaway WHy!

but never does. Why!

He threatens to kill himself. Why!

rotten kid,

Replace the kid with the Jews of world war 2. Replace the the family system he lives in with the Nazi ss prison camp..

The nazis took this concept further and simply eliminated the people they chose to hate by extermination, children and all..





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Lets assume that above person is you. And I am the one saying these things above about you. What do you think about the persons comments from above. What do you think about the person saying them..

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If he did take his life, you would be doing better, Yes! I mean he would not be in your life, he would not be a road block to you anymore, yes! he would be out of the way, and you would be free. You could live life the way you wish, yes..!

If he died you could live as you wish. yes..?
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Get the family system to a therapist. The family system is sick. That is what the boy is trying to tell you. That is what the boy is trying to scream to the world.

The boy is being used as a scapegoat. He is being used to hide the family secrets. He is reacting to a sick family system.. The family system may be creating the boy the way he is, that he react the way he does, that he bring light upon the family, as the family is sick. The family system is screaming for help..

Go to a therapist and tell the truth..!!!

The Boy comes from God. God created him. God loves him. No one else seems to. certainly no one in this family system. Get him some help. He is being used as an object.

The boys mind and life are being ruined in this environment.. Step up to the plate and get this family system some help...

There is no way a healthy well-adjusted 19-year-old would act like that just because his mom is seeing a guy he doesn't like. (Have you figured out why he doesn't like you?) He was probably like that before you met him, and he will probably stay like that for the rest of his life, and it's not your fault. Bad adults are usually bad kids who got bigger and older, and at 19 he's an adult. Next time you say something about him, say "person" instead of "kid". Saying "kid" makes him sound miniature, or makes it sound like a stage that will be over. He's not "terrible two", he's a full-grown man.

It's not clear from your post, but I don't think you're verbally abusive. It sounded like just that one incident. Maybe you really are verbally abusive and didn't provide enough examples in your post, but to me it sounded like the son is the one verbally abusing you.

Often the least guilty feel the most remorse.

The way I see it, you called his bluff. I would have done it differently though. I would have told him to run away, but not to kill himself, especially not in front of his mother. Not because it's wrong, but because it's not good to have people knowing you would say such a thing. I would have said it (only the running away part) calmly instead of angrily, and stood by it, no apologies.

Rewind. Forgivable? Are you sure you need forgiveness? What about the son, should you forgive him too? There must be something wrong with his mother, if she lets him behave that way and she raised him to be that way. Has she apologized to you for her son's behavior?

The best thing you can do is probably to give your girlfriend an ultimatum. Either she agrees to family therapy, or you leave.

I don't expect paying his college tuition will help. If he is like you portray him, he will probably slack off and fail, or drop out again, or get expelled, or get through college but not be able to maintain a job. Good-bye money.