Schizoid Thinking / Withdrawal / Fantasy

You could benefit from grounding. Do you lift weights?

Thank you everyone who has replied so far. I've been busy figuring some things out personally and dealing with the inanities of quotidian existence and haven't had an opportunity to respond to you all. I have a bit of time this morning and I'm in a good place so I'll try and address some of the awesome responses this thread has generated so far.

Not sure what order makes the best sense to respond to.. This'll be a long post and formatting may get weird... Bare with me

Cholls wrote:

OutsideIn wrote:......

Thank you for an amazing post.

Although not schizoid, I believe I have experienced exactly what you've described here. Not only that, but I once spent time with a woman who was developing her own therapeutic approach specifically geared to identifying the things protected by the above 'involuntary defense mechanism(s)'.

I noticed your OP immediately (frankly, had been on the lookout for exactly such a post), but for some reason have taken ages to reply because I believe that it holds the key to addressing not just SPD, but many kinds of mental illness. Our assigned path is 'straight' into that secret, protected area and through it, which is easier said than done.
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Thank you for your kind words Cholls and I'm glad my post sparked some insights for you. The work your friend is doing / the approach she is developing / developed sounds really interesting. If you have a link I'd love to look it over.
The situation you described where you had her repeat a question about your father twice sounds like maybe an internal defense you're fighting against. Asking her to repeat the question could be the defense that gives you time to think up a safe answer.
((I know that for me when I'm asked a question that may reveal "secrets" I deflect the question. For example I'm not really comfortable talking about my intentions or goals (and lack thereof), it feels like I'm giving away secrets. So if somebody asked me "So, OutsideIn what do you want to do after you finish schooling?" it depends if I'll need to interact with them again but usually I'll either slip on my happy mask to create an elaborate tableau that goes way beyond their question's scope and prevent further inquiries. Sort of like describing your dream house to somebody...
I don't really know why I'm going to school except that I'm smart and it seems like a good way to fill my time before I kill myself. (Not a good thing to say in person) ))

My father is a narcissist and I have tried to take him to task for his behavior, so to speak. So I totally know how frustrating that is. I stopped doing it because it never seemed to 'take' his behavior has never changed and I didn't feel any better afterwards. It made me wonder like how can he be this way? This person helped create me but only thinks of himself and treats me like an object. I'm a psychology student (and also really into nonverbal behavior) so I see in his reactions all the defensiveness he exerts to maintain control. It is like fighting a defense mechanism and like me and giving away information it seems involuntary.

The theory that this isn't SPD specific and more a universal mental health seems very true to me to a certain extent anyways.. personality disorders and other psychological disorders not stemming from physiological abnormalities (brain and other organ functioning) can be thought through with techniques like your friend is working on. The key to helping folks in this category is deep introspection and consideration of how the illness affects your life and tackling the "problems" one at a time.
Other mental illnesses that come from abnormal brain chemistry / structures like schizophrenia or depression (via shrunken hippocampus) don't really apply but they'd still benefit from the approach.

Eldror wrote:I reread this post and i think i understood differently,
I think the part of you writing may be your real self, and that may be the reason it takes you so long, im in therapy and i have short moments of my real self coming out and its also very difficult and stressful, i can only assume in therapy those expiriences should be embraced so it would be easier for next time, i dont have this kind of 'real' moments in online forums tho,
I usually get them with people who should be considered trustable, my doctor, psychiatriat, closest friend.

I think its a good progress if you havent been able to do so sooner, i want to add about the disappointment of not being to be real that i sometimes feel this conflicting power to socialize, espacially when someone gently invite me to be real and participate in the conversation without any pressure, just for my own sake, i just try hard to be real and it doesnt work out, i stay stuck in a mask.

The fact that this is possible for you to be a bit real sounds like a great improvement, I wasn't able to do it before therapy EVER. Good luck

I think we're in the same boat Eldror... or at least in the same ocean.
Practice makes better and since writing my original post I've been to therapy every week and have been embracing those moments where I feel like the real self even though they're awkward. I think it's helping and in my day to day I'm masked less. I'm pretty mentally drained from the effort by the end of the day but it's sort of like exercising my real self.

Oblivion wrote:

OutsideIn wrote:I'm really interested to understand how thought processes happen for other schizoids or if I'm alone when I say mine feels like fighting some kind of involuntary defense mechanism.

Maybe it's more of a deeply buried defense mechanism than an involuntary one. While it's true that much involuntary behavior has deep roots, I can't help but think it's a little different for schizoids. It seems that there could be a link between maladaptive fantasy and a defense mechanism that is so deeply ingrained it becomes a part of our psyche that we become unable to see it as a protective device, or even as a problem.

Oblivion your post gave me a lot to think about. Like the fact that I was considering it as a problem to be solved gave me pause. I had to consider whether or not the way I handle interactions was something I wanted to change or not and what I wanted to change about it. Changing my thinking about my psyche (who I am, how I am) from considering it as one unit to a way more like partitions in a computer allowed me to tweak a things and accept more of how I am in general.
Your post was especially helpful. Thank you


I'm still active and will have more time for responses later.
Lets keep talking about this everyone!

-∞

I think the whole thing about it "stemming from defense mechanisms" and such just doesn't apply to me. To me the root of it is more simple and fundamental. I always see it as a parallel to my inability to "see in 3D" (stereoscopic vision). It's a subtle thing, and it can go unnoticed for a long time, but it can have deeper implications, and ultimately it's a sense that I just don't have.

Going to a social gathering is like going to a screening of a 3D movie. The whole purpose of the activity is lost on me, all I get from it is the higher ticket price and the inconvenience of the (allegedly-3D) glasses I have to wear and the uncomfortably dim and/or doubled image on the screen. I can squint as hard as I want, I'll never get why everyone else in the theater seems so amazed. And the same principle applies to everything in my life to some degree or another.

Here's a really long sciency text about it for those who might be into it:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6491888/

OutsideIn wrote:For example those sentences took nearly 10 minutes to type because my mind kept going blank and thinking unrelated thoughts. It's like I'm losing focus or something even though I'm intent to communicate and still "thinking". Sometimes I need to like forcefully re-engage myself with the real world and even then I feel like I need coaxing to supply real information.

My false self seems so strong and if I'm not monitoring it I'll derail myself and be in my fantasy for 20 minutes before realizing it and getting back to the real task. It's infuriating because I have nothing to show for that 20 minutes of what felt like deep thought and oftentimes I can't help it.

I'm applying some mindfulness techniques suggested by a therapist with some success. It's incredibly taxing though and by the end of the day I'm mentally exhausted. I hope it's like a muscle so that with time it becomes easier from all the exercise.

I know this is an old post, but I thought the getting lost in fantasy and daydream was schizotypal rather than schizoid?
I don't think I understand the difference between these two PDs anymore

DaturaInnoxia wrote:I know this is an old post, but I thought the getting lost in fantasy and daydream was schizotypal rather than schizoid?
I don't think I understand the difference between these two PDs anymore

Maladaptive daydreaming. Its a general condition, mostly associated with ADHD, it would seem.

DaturaInnoxia wrote:
I know this is an old post, but I thought the getting lost in fantasy and daydream was schizotypal rather than schizoid?
I don't think I understand the difference between these two PDs anymore

Schizotypals have "magical thinking" and odd beliefs and frames of reference. They believe in weird things...like maybe they believe movies or music have special messages just for them, or maybe they believe ghosts can talk to them by moving their laundry around.

Schizoids do have daydreams, and sometimes create elaborate stories or fantasy lives....but we don't believe them. We know they aren't real.

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Thank you for both the replies.

smirks wrote:Schizotypals have "magical thinking" and odd beliefs and frames of reference. They believe in weird things...like maybe they believe movies or music have special messages just for them, or maybe they believe ghosts can talk to them by moving their laundry around.

Schizoids do have daydreams, and sometimes create elaborate stories or fantasy lives....but we don't believe them. We know they aren't real.

Is there a PD that exists in both?
I do both.

-- Sat Jan 11, 2020 7:04 pm --

When it comes to "magical thinking," I've learned the common themes of delusions, so I pass them through those filters for discernment purposes.

Some put me in a "red," zone while others are simply fun and harmless.

I work to shut down the red zone ones and enjoy the harmless ones.

And elaborate daydream / fantasy worlds, I can waste my time away until I've isolated so long that I risk psychosis.
"Coming back" and grounding is hard sometimes

1PolarBear wrote:

DaturaInnoxia wrote:I know this is an old post, but I thought the getting lost in fantasy and daydream was schizotypal rather than schizoid?
I don't think I understand the difference between these two PDs anymore

Maladaptive daydreaming. Its a general condition, mostly associated with ADHD, it would seem.

I have maladaptive daydreaming when I get manic, and boy howdy is it a time waster...

About defence mechanisms
For a long time now I feel like there is a wall inside me, that is stopping me from having any success in therapy, from having any progress, I am stuck and have been since childhood. Very frustrating.
But somehow I also sort of feel this wall is there to protect me, and that I am fighting myself.

Now I came across this book:
Freedom from Your Inner Critic: A Self-Therapy Approach
Di Jay Earley, Bonnie Weiss

It talks about our inner critics but sees them as persons whose intend it is (or was) to protect us, help us.
For instance one of mine says: be hard (don't cry), being hard has indeed protected me from my insensitive, uncaring parents in the past.

I like this idea. Seeing them as working for me (albeit in a distorted way), not against me. They are my strength, they protect(ed) me, got me to where I am.
But in stead of seeing them as a valuable part of me, I have been fighting them all my life, i guess fighting the wall. And in doing so also fighting my own strength.

I haven't red the entire of the book yet, but it basically says to transform those inner critics into allies.

CuteLoneCat wrote:For instance one of mine says: be hard (don't cry)

Do you think you'd get something out of crying?

Do you experience a sense of comfort or release or catharsis from it?

I don't comfort easily; it usually just gives me an excruciating headache.
I'm also unwilling to cry in public (if possible), so it's almost always gone by the time I have the privacy to do so.