Huge problem with a friend

A heads up on this!

All in all, I think its getting better now. We've had lovely times again recently. No, I never had romantic feelings for her. I think she's pretty (she can't see this herself >: ), but I've never felt romantic attraction towards her at all.

However there are still blips. I find it hard to differentiate between when someone is so angry that they'd rather you shut up and want you to stop talking (though often she won't say this?) and when someone is just mildly angry over something you've said.

A problem I personally have is not being able to tell (especially on instant messengers) the difference between if someone is just casually chilling with not much to say, or else pretty angry and doesn't want to talk to you. Both make me feel hideously uncomfortable (HELP WHAT DO I SAY?!) so I end up saying nothing...which is a problem if my friend doesn't feel angry at all. I know for ME its frustrating if someone constantly feels as if they've done wrong, and I worry that she feels the same about my constant fears. Often though, they're proved right: it seems like the times I assume nothing is wrong there is (and looking back its fairly obvious there was...), and when I think everything has gone to hell nothing really has.

My friend also sends me confusing signals. When she's angry she has a habit of lashing out at things (verbally I mean). When she has problems I can't solve I become awkward and it makes her frustrated that there's suddenly "radio silence" from me, even though I say "I'm sorry, I don't know what to say". In those times she says its important for me to keep trying even if I don't KNOW EXACTLY what to do, and I have been recently. Its a little hard to find the words sometimes though, as I feel like whatever I say won't help the situation and I'll end up being "growled at"...which doesn't do wonders for my self confidence. If I'm going to be shouted at, what's the point in trying? Admittedly she's improving on that recently too, though she has said to me in the past that she views an attempt to change the topic (mostly for her own good, and no matter how I try to word it) as cowardice on my part in wanting to escape a difficult conversation. In addition, after all the bad feelings have passed she tells me not to worry and that she was only being bitter and angry as she usually is, which makes me agitated, because as a "true friend" I'd like to know what to say even IF she growls at me, so she'll appreciate it when she comes back to herself, which she sometimes does...but half the time I just can't find the energy.

I do want to help her, but by her own admission a lot of her (very difficult) problems can't be solved over the course of a few hours--I'd have to stay up LITERALLY all night till dawn. I could do that, but I can't realistically (especially when I don't know if it'll help at all, she has the luxury of sleeping into 3 in the afternoon if she wants and has a different bio-clock, and I'll just be knackered tomorrow when I wake up at 10 as ever). I hate myself for thinking that--hey, good friends do ANYTHING for each other, right? I feel childish for thinking THAT though, as realistically I know I have my own life to lead and want to do different things. I also feel a little guilty when I have to get to bed on those times--though when she wants to go to bed she'll just go and think nothing of it.

WindGuru wrote:All in all, I think its getting better now. We've had lovely times again recently.

I'm glad it's improving. That's good to hear and I hope it continues.

A problem I personally have is not being able to tell (especially on instant messengers) the difference between if someone is just casually chilling with not much to say, or else pretty angry and doesn't want to talk to you. Both make me feel hideously uncomfortable (HELP WHAT DO I SAY?!) so I end up saying nothing...which is a problem if my friend doesn't feel angry at all. I know for ME its frustrating if someone constantly feels as if they've done wrong, and I worry that she feels the same about my constant fears. Often though, they're proved right: it seems like the times I assume nothing is wrong there is (and looking back its fairly obvious there was...), and when I think everything has gone to hell nothing really has.

My unhelpful thought here is that no-one ever gets this 100% right. People don't get it right in real life, let alone through the strangled communication medium of IM. I'd probably just ask outright, and accept whatever answer was given at face value. If someone responds to me sarcastically, "it's all fine" when something is wrong, then that's their fault for missing an opportunity to correct me. Or else they are signalling very ineptly that although things are wrong, they don't want me to be involved. Either way, I'd refuse to take all the blame for bad communication. And once there is an answer, I wouldn't ask again [for that session.]

When she has problems I can't solve I become awkward and it makes her frustrated that there's suddenly "radio silence" from me, even though I say "I'm sorry, I don't know what to say". In those times she says its important for me to keep trying even if I don't KNOW EXACTLY what to do, and I have been recently.

I think she's using you as a therapist, not a friend. This is asking WAY too much of you, in my opinion. No-one, as I said above, reads minds perfectly, and to ask you to keep trying even though her responses are ungracious or unhelpful is just massively unfair. I honestly think you may need some more boundaries here. Or perhaps just a "stock" phrase to use. "I'm not sure what to say at the moment, I'd like to take some time out. I'm not ignoring you, but I am going offline for a while." You don't have to solve her problems. They're her problems. If you offer help, support or advice, that's NICE. It's not her RIGHT to receive it, and it's not your responsibility to always say something.

Admittedly she's improving on that recently too, though she has said to me in the past that she views an attempt to change the topic (mostly for her own good, and no matter how I try to word it) as cowardice on my part in wanting to escape a difficult conversation.

I am sorry, but I don't like her very much from what you say here. Why shouldn't you escape? It's not YOUR conversation. It's hers. Labelling a retreat cowardice is frankly bitchy.

I do want to help her, but by her own admission a lot of her (very difficult) problems can't be solved over the course of a few hours

She needs to do it with a therapist. This is not what friends are for.

I hate myself for thinking that--hey, good friends do ANYTHING for each other, right?

Really? Would she do ANYTHING for you? How about "stop talking at 10pm, because she knows you have to get to sleep"? Would she do that?

I feel childish for thinking THAT though, as realistically I know I have my own life to lead and want to do different things. I also feel a little guilty when I have to get to bed on those times--though when she wants to go to bed she'll just go and think nothing of it.

I'm sorry for lecturing you when you know everything that I'm saying anyway. You're a good friend and a good person for putting so much thought into all this. Just, perhaps, too much thought?

Eh, I use this place as a sounding board. Apologies people, but objective advice/listening (parents/other friends are NOT) and no judging is what I need sometimes.

I guess I have been a huge child over a certain issue today that got blown out of proportion. I sulked, which made her frustrated with me and she was already tired and angry anyway. And then I tried to have a normal-ish (we hardly said much for 10 minutes after one another spoke, and I was doing ALL the asking) conversation, which leaded to a rather...honest exchange.

I admit I can be a child, and she says she doesn't want to be my mummy and has moods of her own so can't always be around to make me happy (I'm somewhat subconsciously-demanding of this, I don't really speak to anyone on the same level as her, though I have many other friends).

The thing that pisses me off more though is that she has other people (namely a partner) to lean on, and can in essence just cut me off if I become annoying. Honestly I'd do the same in her position so I don't blame her...and maybe getting frustrated over this is childish. But I can't just sit back and take it on the chin.

And being told to try harder. And do more. How? Why? I didn't wish to ask her these questions--in her mood then, I was SURE the answer would be "figure it out yourself".

Mindreading is a problem but...

Do all the good times we've had recently mean NOTHING? All the times I sat up to 3am talking to her about silly things just to make her feel better (I didn't say I was doing this to her, I thought that would make her feel guilty)? I hate the feeling of all the good things somehow being taken for granted and accepted as fact, so that when you do bad things (in someone else's eyes), its suddenly ALL you can do.

And I do just the same to her!

Very likely this issue will just blow over tomorrow, but its still frustrating as hell.

WindGuru wrote:Eh, I use this place as a sounding board. Apologies people, but objective advice/listening (parents/other friends are NOT) and no judging is what I need sometimes.

That's fine, that's what this entire board is for. Though, I apologise since I don't think I'm good at the "not judging".

The thing that pisses me off more though is that she has other people (namely a partner) to lean on, and can in essence just cut me off if I become annoying. Honestly I'd do the same in her position so I don't blame her...and maybe getting frustrated over this is childish. But I can't just sit back and take it on the chin.

Are you saying that you feel the relationship is imbalanced and that you invest much more into it than she does?

All the times I sat up to 3am talking to her about silly things just to make her feel better (I didn't say I was doing this to her, I thought that would make her feel guilty)? I hate the feeling of all the good things somehow being taken for granted and accepted as fact, so that when you do bad things (in someone else's eyes), its suddenly ALL you can do.

Mindreading is a problem but...

I think perhaps you're both expecting the other to mindread, in different situations. Honesty is harder work in the short term, but might pay off over the longer term. Or it may be that neither of you is really able to talk about the underlying feelings or issues that are driving all this.

Very likely this issue will just blow over tomorrow, but its still frustrating as hell.

I hope so, but I do hear you on how frustrating it is right now.