Is using a strategy ok, or is it manipulative?

I've been in an on-again, off-again relationship for a little over a year now. I guess that's the simplest way to describe it. We first dated for 8 months, broke up for 2 (he dated someone else in between; I did not), he suggested we try to get back together, changed his mind, then I suggested we be friends with benefits which we did for about 3 months. 2 months later, we have started talking again and I have hung out with him once. *whew!* complicated. Anyway, I am trying to play hard-to-get and am not sure how ethical this is. I initiated us talking again by sending him a text then pretending like it was an accident (I know, stupid. I was drunk and honestly didn't expect a response). He replied eagerly then started texting me regularly over the next 2 weeks. I would act disinterested, responding to them hours or even days later. He invited me over to return a t-shirt I had left over there a long time ago (like either of us cared about the shirt). I told him I was busy, though I wasn't. A week later, he called me to ask if I wanted to hang out and this time I agreed, though not trying to sound enthusiastic. I hadn't planned on drinking because I had to drive, but it turns out he bought a very expensive liquor for the occasion. As he got more tipsy, he did try to cuddle up to me on the couch. Idk if I responded appropriately, but I basically just ignored it. I stayed late in order to sober up and he suggested I spend the night. I declined and told him I was ok to drive. He works very early in the morning and said he would even call in sick. Still, I drove home. I'm a little worried I should have left earlier so as not to seem like I was lingering or to not make him mad at having stayed up all night expecting me to sleep over. Anyway, he texted me the next day to make sure I made it home alright and that he had a good time. I replied a few hours later, but haven't heard back from him yet (it was only yesterday). I'm thinking he may invite me over tonight or tomorrow, and I'm thinking of saying I have plans, even though I don't for today. Not sure about tomorrow. I'm not sure if this is wrong. I really am trying to find plans just for the sake of not lying to him. Is this just horribly manipulative, or do a lot of people do this? A problem I had in our relationship before was being too clingy (nobody likes that...NOT attractive). I would drop whatever I was doing to see him on his whim. I don't think me having my own life besides him is a bad thing, but I feel a little insincere. I really care about him and I'm worried he only wants me as a friends with benefits or perhaps he is feeling lonely after a break-up. I want more than that and am afraid of being hurt. Anyway, sorry this is so long! Anyone who could make it through this long tirade, I would appreciate your input. I am unsure of what to do. I want to play it cool, but I feel very deep emotions for him and am afraid he does not reciprocate and is just playing with me. Advice, please!!

Hun, the trouble with mind games and lying is that things can get terribly unclear and complicated, with you neither of you having any idea of what is true, what isn't true and where you both stand. Mind games can also cause a great deal of emotional pain for all concerned. This friendship is unlikely to progress into a relationship if it isn't based on a solid foundation. Without a solid foundation of honesty and truth there will always be uncertainty and insecurity. In time these feelings can eat away at a person, and a viscous circle of manipulation and mind games begins, which can be very destructive.

There's nothing wrong with a person not appearing too eager at the start of a relationship and the initial thrill of the chase can be exciting for both people. However, mind games, manipulation, ploys to make a person jealous etc can be very damaging.

If you both try to be honest with each other, say things as they really are and lay your cards on the table, you'll both at least know where you stand. If he says he wants to be friends with benefits and this isn't what you want, why not be assertive and tell him so? If he consistently wants his own way at the expense of your feelings, do you really want to be with him?

I'm wondering if you sometimes have difficulty being assertive? Sometimes, people who haven't learnt to be assertive can develop manipulative techniques as a coping mechanism. This can be a form of passive aggression, and in the long term it isn't very beneficial. People who learn assertiveness tend to be respected, and they find solutions in situations that benefit all concerned, where there are no losers, and both people win and benefit.

Loved your post masquerade Especially the ending, yes BOTH people can win! Nothing else to add. Perfect

xdude, I don't know if you're making fun of me or not...masquerade, your advice is sound. I do have trouble being assertive sometimes...right on the money. I do fluctuate between being very passive and sometimes being overly aggressive. Not sure what that means lol. My ex complained a lot about my anger...it makes me feel sad sometimes. I wasn't aggressive towards him in general, but he couldn't stand my anger towards other people. I admit I have trust issues. God...I wish I could get past that. I especially had trouble with being assertive when I was younger. I was afraid of my mother at the time. She was physically and psychologically abusive. I kept it all inside until it exploded into anger at other people i.e. fights or anger towards myself i.e. self-injury. I don't blame my mother for my relationship problems. That's on me. I just think it may be a possible component. I really appreciate your advice! It is very helpful. I sometimes feel so up and down in my relationships, it's confusing I've had so many problems with relationships in the past (of all kinds), I feel I need some sort of strategy just to navigate through them. I've had some proposed personality disorders (though not officially diagnosed, because they were not from a psychiatrist), though I know I cannot completely blame these either. They have made me feel like a bad person: schizoid pd, antisocial pd (that one especially made me feel like a waste of space). I feel so bad and evil on the inside, like I need to make sacrifices for other people I care about. Maybe that sounds weird? Sorry, maybe I am being overly dramatic. I feel inadequate in all relationships and do not know how to make this one work. So confusing...anyway, I sound so whiney lol. I really appreciate the help! I just feel so fundamentally bad and evil that I cannot make any relationship work. I try but feel that I don't have the skills. Anyone else feel this way? I will try harder and be more positive

patient_zer0 wrote:xdude, I don't know if you're making fun of me or not

Not at all. masquerade's posts are always a pleasure to read and increasingly insightful. I doubt anyone here could have given you better advice.

Best wishes

You said

I especially had trouble with being assertive when I was younger. I was afraid of my mother at the time. She was physically and psychologically abusive. I kept it all inside until it exploded into anger at other people i.e. fights or anger towards myself i.e. self-injury. I don't blame my mother for my relationship problems. That's on me. I just think it may be a possible component.

You seem to have a great of insight into yourself. Perhaps you have carried on with this pattern of behaviour as a result of never having learnt how to be assertive, due to your relationship with your mother. Therapy could help you to break these patterns.

You said

I sometimes feel so up and down in my relationships, it's confusing I've had so many problems with relationships in the past (of all kinds), I feel I need some sort of strategy just to navigate through them. I've had some proposed personality disorders (though not officially diagnosed, because they were not from a psychiatrist), though I know I cannot completely blame these either. They have made me feel like a bad person: schizoid pd, antisocial pd (that one especially made me feel like a waste of space). I feel so bad and evil on the inside, like I need to make sacrifices for other people I care about. Maybe that sounds weird? Sorry, maybe I am being overly dramatic. I feel inadequate in all relationships and do not know how to make this one work. So confusing...anyway, I sound so whiney lol. I really appreciate the help! I just feel so fundamentally bad and evil that I cannot make any relationship work. I try but feel that I don't have the skills. Anyone else feel this way? I will try harder and be more positive

Hun, only a qualified person such as a psychiatrist can officially diagnose you with a personality disorder. Who has put these labels on you? Having labels with no conclusive diagnosis can limit you, and almost create a self fulfilling prophecy, and prevent you from taking responsibility for your own thoughts, reactions and deeds. You are not bad and evil on the inside. You also certainly don't come across as being sociopathic. Somewhere along the line you learnt to feel bad about yourself, and your self esteem plummeted. It is time to reclaim your self esteem, and rid yourself of the labels of being "bad" or "unworthy" etc. Even if it turns out by official diagnosis that there are issues with your personality, this does not mean you are a bad person, or unworthy, or inadequate. If, and I strongly emphasise the word IF, a personality disorder is OFFICIALLY diagnosed, then this would have come about as a direct result of an abusive childhood. Therapy can help tremendously. I was diagnosed with histrionic personality disorder as a result of invalidating and abusive experiences as a child, and through therapy I worked on the issues that created my low self esteem, my mechanisms of compensation for this, and my thought patterns. I am now much healthier, with a normal level of self esteem. I don't live by the label of my disorder. Unless you know conclusively through a psychiatrist's diagnosis that you have a personality disorder, please don't assume that you have one.

The feelings of inadequacy in relationships will reduce greatly if you can work upon your self esteem. I strongly recommend therapy. It can open so many doors for you.

You said

xdude, I don't know if you're making fun of me or not.

Xdude is full of insight, wisdom and sound advice, with a great deal of insight into himself and other people.

xdude, sorry for jumping to conclusions! masquerade, the person who proposed these diagnoses was a psychologist I had been seeing for 2 years. He was unsure about the aspd, but was afraid I might progress to the disorder since I had been formally diagnosed with ODD during a stay at a psychiatric hospital when I was 17 (and the diagnosis had been proposed by several past therapists). I have tried talk therapy many times, but I have a tendency to get fired by my therapists. At times, I feel it was justified because I was really resistant and other times I am really confused as to why it happened. The best therapy I ever had was biofeedback/neurofeedback (not sure if they are the same thing). I messed that up by getting into a heated argument with my therapist and being banned from the facility. It is the only facility that offers biofeedback within a reasonable distance (I don't have the time or resources to drive an hour and a half to therapy every week). I'm glad therapy has helped you so much! Talk therapy seems to do nothing for me. I have recently considered trying again. I think the problem with my biofeedback therapy was that my therapist was female. I don't have a problem with female doctors or other professionals. It is not due to a lack of trust in their abilities because they are women ( I know some people have this issue). I generally have a mistrust of women and hesitate to confide in them, especially if they are authority figures. Maybe it has something to do with my mother? Again, blaming the mother. It sounds so Freudian lol. I appreciate all the input! I still haven't heard from my love interest...it makes me a little sad, but I guess I have to rely on myself for my own self-worth and not ruminate over what his feelings for me are, like you said.

I'm over my ex now. He just seems...disgusting. And I'm noticing all the flaws he has. I guess I have fallen out of love. Such an empty feeling. Is that weird? Lol. I'm sort of seeing someone I care about only as a friend. Perhaps it sounds strange, but I just feel nothingness. I really hate that. Yuck yuck yuck. Why is it so easy for everyone else to find someone? Ugh...

Do you think you could re enter therapy, this time with a determination to benefit from it? If you can do this, with a strong motivation, the benefits could truly change your life.

patient_zer0 wrote:I'm over my ex now. He just seems...disgusting. And I'm noticing all the flaws he has. I guess I have fallen out of love. Such an empty feeling. Is that weird? Lol. I'm sort of seeing someone I care about only as a friend. Perhaps it sounds strange, but I just feel nothingness. I really hate that. Yuck yuck yuck. Why is it so easy for everyone else to find someone? Ugh...

You don't sound schizoid. My understanding is that SPD's essence is being a total loner by choice. You want a romantic relationship badly and those are a burden for people with SPD.

Most women with ODD do not develop ASPD, IIRC. You seem soft-hearted. I am what you don't want to be and more, and I think very differently. I like to manipulate. I like to hurt people. It makes me happy. I am classed as a "violent offender" by the penal system. I like what I've done and who I am. It's always the prosocial, empathic people who feel horrible about being antisocial or psychopathic. Feeling bad that you may be should tell you that you're not. I feel great about the man I am.