Can't Always Say

Relationships fascinate me. I've been confused about something for such a long time. If I were to ask you what it is that you want in a partner, would you know? I mean, honestly, deep down. I've read so many times that what people say they want and what they really want aren't the same thing at all.

Can anyone help me understand this better? Is this a simple acknowledgment of the difference between what you think you want over what you actually need? Is it deeper than that?

Has anyone ever experienced this for real?

Dazelled wrote:If I were to ask you what it is that you want in a partner, would you know?

Is this a simple acknowledgment of the difference between what you think you want over what you actually need? Is it deeper than that?

If you were to ask me one year ago what I wanted in a relationship I would have told you, "I just want to be in a relationship for the sake of telling people I have a boyfriend/girlfriend because it sounds cool when you're in high school." I wasn't interested in romance last year, I had been in three relationships prior to that. One with a boy who flirted with every girl at school and cheated on me after a week even though I really liked him. One who is now gay and lives in another town. And a girl who just wanted to get into my pants so I dumped her. I wasn't interested in getting close to anyone. In our high school if you had a boyfriend or girlfriend, if you were in a relationship, you had status. It was something you could use against the 80% of students who weren't but desperately wanted one.

But then I met Johann and at first all I wanted was to be friends the first day we hung out together. And I think I might have even asked him out that night just to see how other students would react because he used to work for the school's bus company and used to be my driver, but was fired shortly before we began dating. Imagine, I was dating a former bus driver (who was only four years older than me), oh, the school would have had a fit if they thought we had been dating when he was still working for the bus company. I thought it was sort of rebellious. I had an older boyfriend who at the time I probably shouldn't have been openly dating because of his past job and my being a senior in high school. But I always liked being different.

But come December...I was really getting to know Johann. He had told me his whole life story prior to meeting me, and all the emotional tragedies that went along with it. He had baggage, so did I. I could relate to him. I knew precisely where he was coming from. And suddenly I didn't care where he came from or what the hell the school thought of us. I wanted to spend time with him and be with him whenever I could. He was listening to me and caring for me in a way that no one in my life ever had. He was telling me things about himself he had never told anyone in his life, not even his own mother. I felt connected to him in a way that words can't even describe.

So yes, if you were to ask me right now what I want in a partner, I would know precisely what I want. It's not what I originally wanted, it's what time and love gave me. Johann is precisely who I want to be with for the rest of my life, and I know this for fact.

I always had intense crushes since at least elementary school. Lisa Olson was name of first one I remember. I never once spoke to any of these girls. Isolated romanticism. I wanted a relationship outside time and space, to 'transcend society" would be a good notion for a relationship.

Ive come to realize normal relationships involve banality and common-placeness, including gossip, other people, infidelity, etc. I think with infidelity, sex is not as good, because the woman is not entirely open to you alone. An unfaithful woman can only open herself halfway to an assortment of men including me.

For some people though, a relationship is entirely social, involving friends, family, and other people.

Dazelled wrote:Relationships fascinate me. I've been confused about something for such a long time. If I were to ask you what it is that you want in a partner, would you know? I mean, honestly, deep down. I've read so many times that what people say they want and what they really want aren't the same thing at all.

Can anyone help me understand this better? Is this a simple acknowledgment of the difference between what you think you want over what you actually need? Is it deeper than that?

Has anyone ever experienced this for real?

I believe in this notion strongly that what we people think/say we want, often does not match what we react to emotionally/instinctively. From a evolutionary psychology point of view, the reason is essentially simple. The theory being that we've evolved instincts, and primal emotions over millions of years that we are often not consciously aware of (just as we believe animals react out of instinct, and are not necessarily aware of their own instincts, the theory is we people are to a degree blind to our own instincts).

What makes it messy for us people is that part of our brain has evolved intellectual abilities (e.g., the ability to think abstractly, to use speech/writing effectively symbols that abstractly represent real things/patterns/etc, the ability to play out what-if scenarios in our brain before they happen, etc.). We're also very social, and so when you overlay social training, and intellectual control on top of primal instincts, it's not surprising that what we think/say we want doesn't necessarily match what we respond to on an instinctive, primal level.

That's the theory anyway But it can explain why someone can rattle of a list off what they think they want in a partner, but then someone walks by who barely matches their criteria, and despite everything they just said/claimed, they're emotionally and sexually turned on without thinking about it.

Thank you so much for these comments. The post from xdude is the one that particularly seems to understand what I mean. Can I ask you some more questions? I don't know whether you would be willing to help me again but I would appreciate it if you do. I will explain the reasons why I'm asking about this later.

What do you listen to most of all xdude, your intellectual control or your instinctive, primal response? Please, please, please give me some examples of who, how, what or however or when this applies, when you do it. Anything at all, but I would most of all like to read something true-to-life so that I can relate. For example, what would YOU write on a list of what you think you want in a partner? When you've found those things, has it worked out for you?

Dazelled - There are endless examples, but sure I can give one to make the point.

So I know this woman who'd never want to be cheated on, but you may be aware of the accusations against Cain, the presidential candidate. While she'd never want to be cheated on herself, her reaction to those accusations (her immediate reaction, not the well thought out ones) was quite different than what her intellectual view would explain. She felt an immediate need to defend him, and assume the woman just made it up when the first report came out. Even as a few more reports came out, she felt some need to defend him. Why?

Well it is explainable from evolutionary psychology point of view. Cain represents an Alpha male type, a male who apparently has/makes many opportunities to reproduce his genes. Plus he is married, which suggests he could also be a male who is at least capable of providing resources and safety for one woman. So on some level that kind of male is evolutionarily attractive. Her instinctive reaction may be no more complex than that because in evolutionary psych theory there are some ideas debated that we people tend to be pulled in two directions when it comes to our primal instinct to reproduce our genes. On the one hand we are drawn to a stable mate who could we raise our offspring with. On the other hand, we are drawn to types who are less stable, but have other evolutionary advantages. An Alpha male for example is more likely to have an offspring with similar characteristics, which means good odds that the child will have sex with many others, and reproduce as well.

That's the theory anyway, unfortunately greatly simplified. Unfortunately limited proof (some studies and proof, but not enough that it's reasonable to remain doubtful of course). Still an interesting theory that predicts that people will have conflicts between what their social training/intellect says, and what they actually respond to.

And no, I've never sat down and made a list of qualities I want in another. I see no reason to do so. I'm changing, and I also don't necessarily know what I really want vs what I think I want

I think there is a separation between your mind-body and your reasoning. Some people put a lot of stock on what is natural, but for me the actions you make are the most important. You have some reasons to act, and those are the most important. Animal urges to procreate like a wild beast with every person you are attracted to should be separate and even partitioned into a more primitive area of the mind. Otherwise people are no different than animals and lose free-choice.

Well that's the thing. Intellect can suppress primal instinct, but those instincts and emotions never really disappears or go away entirely. Learning to be aware of those underlying instincts in others and ourselves, helps in understanding what is otherwise apparently confusing human behavior.

xdude wrote:Well that's the thing. Intellect can suppress primal instinct, but those instincts and emotions never really disappears or go away entirely. Learning to be aware of those underlying instincts in others and ourselves, helps in understanding what is otherwise apparently confusing human behavior.

Yes, I like your example about the woman and the alpha-male. I have had many bad experiences where a woman forms a block against me after finding some alpha male. My own mother would do this with each of her boyfriends. The new boyfriend was an alpha male, and even the son could not compare. I have even seen that Jesus is an alpha male figure.

But of course this is only a basic example for women in society. What about men?

Do you perceive that the Alpha-Male problem is more American in the West? You mention a potential president. I have noticed even Canadian women sizing up Americans as "great men" or alpha males. Potentially overseas is it true that the alpha-male is less important?

I by the way voted for a woman named Gloria La Riva rather than Obama in the 2008 election. But the only thing worse than a women worshiping an alpha male, could be for a woman to behave like a man. I would not want to be in a relationship with such a woman, who acted like a man.

Well, I suppose a generalization may clarify (but it's a sweeping generalization.

Men and women are often conflicted in the types of people they want as a mate. The classic example being wanting a nice, thoughtful, funny, intelligent, etc. as a mate, but then pursuing (or at least being turned on by) types who fall under the umbrella of "bad", which doesn't mean everyone pursues those types, but often people react emotionally strongly to someone who exudes sexuality, ruthless goal seeking, lack of empathy, etc. I think it's normal enough and no big deal so long as people are aware of their conflicting emotions/intellect, and make their choices in a mate with eyes wide open.

I suppose the degree of conflict could be culturally related as well. In the USA we're certainly bombarded with a lot of media that idolizes, or demonizes people, and our sense of what people should be like may be more strongly skewed by that vs some other culture. I really don't know though, but it's possible sure.

I'm fine with male/females who choose to behave in more female/male ways; if they can find mates that are happy with that I don't see any problem with it, or if they are just happy with themselves and don't find mates that's fine too. I'm old enough that I admit I enjoy the male (me), female (her) differences, but I also enjoy equality so that's a conflict I have between what my instincts drive me to, and what my intellect wants.