Friendship confusing me (LOOONG -interesting!)

*This is like a week old -wanted more opinions from another site*
I'll TRY to keep this short but the situation is making my brain hurt. I need help, please, I'm practically begging here.

http://psychforums.com/viewtopic.php?p=116213 - Posted a thread months back, this is the same guy, just new situation(s).

I have a friend who's over 3 years younger than me, I turned 22 last month (female), he's 19 in early '08, we're both in college, both very inexperienced in terms of relationships or sex and all, but we're just kinda old-fashioned, I suppose. It's long distance, but we're great friends and just have an amazing spark, we've been close but that was more up until '07, now it's on and off. Anyways, his attitude lately is badly affecting our friendship...


.:: Point of the post ::.
I feel like I can't say anything right, or talk to him when I need a friend because he makes everything about him. He even said "Oh, those msn subtitles aimed at me? :p". HELLO EGOMANIAC. This guy means a lot to me but I don't know how to deal with his hot and coldness, this latest phase. He knows what he means to me, we've tried a relationship when he has felt the same as me, yet doesn't see why he can't talk "openly" about his latest crush. WHY would I want to hear about that? How many times do I need to spell it out for the total moron that I still feel the same about him. That's just one thing though, he lashes out at random things, or just gets plain weird at times.

Anyway. I've asked him to chill, tried talking about everything but he turns stuff on me like I'm insecure or cynical, like I'm the problem. Or says how I should have some faith in what I'm worth to people (he was dodging the issue, since I asked what I was worth to HIM not John Smith down the damned road). I was just asking him to tell me something nice for once, I suppose. Simply put, I don't know how not to feel hurt and angry when he treats me like crap sometimes, because these days there's little balance.

What I'm asking for is some help on how to keep "cool". At times he gets so moody like a PMSing chick, whining over stupid things like how he can't pull off a certain song (he plays guitar and drools over his own music) or how he has to watch couples walking around and feels jealous. Not to mention he has this "American dream" attitude, where he talks like a delusional fool, bypassing real issues and people.

Sidenote: He told me he'd been clinically depressed as a young teen. Now it's like he tries to hard with everything. Could that explain why he's being such a dick towards me sometimes? Why he's so self-absorbed and scatter-brained? Something's just not right, with him. It was months back, but someone who's known him longer mentioned how he "didn't seem sane".

I have plenty of reason not to trust him or know what I mean to him, with how he is towards me and everything I mention here. He says he'd have left for good already if he was ever going to walk away from me, that I'm "a real hassle to put up with" but honestly, everyone who knows of our situation says they have no idea how I put up with so much crap, or why he bothers with me at all. One friend is seriously like, "It confuses the life out of me". My simple answer to everyone would be that I love him, and he's not always a complete ass but I don't know how to handle this teenage idiocy. How do I oppose lashouts without lecturing or criticizing? I need tips, ideas or general interpretations. D:

Someone tell me what to think, what to say or do, and most of all how to put up a white flag so this friendship can work. =/

Feel free to stop here and/or reply if you don't like long posts... the rest is just a little more details.



.:: Background story ::.
In late September he came back after completely cutting ties with me for about a month (I was devastated by his leaving). This followed a big argument because of massive insensitivity where he rubbed his meeting a new girl in my face, having been very distant with me for almost two months after our "breakup" in late June. Basically I hit a few nerves with my reply to that message where he went on about the damned chick (completely ignoring my previous message). He left but truthfully my reply was WELL deserved. He apologized upon his return, said he thought I hated him, and for a few weeks he went on and off of being into that same chick ("bad crush on a bad girl", he says) til HE apparently gave up on her (probably defending his pride). :roll

We've been better since his return, in some ways, but there's some kind of unresolved tension or frustration, and it's coming off worse from him than me, short but sharp outbursts. It's like he doesn't care enough to try and talk things out, or expects me to be volatile when his silence MAKES me volatile.

He's such a painfully typical teenager, lacking his usual depth or character lately. Not to mention he's INSANELY self-absorbed, lame and as my friend says, "he exaggerates his 'problems' into giant proportions". Honestly... someone get him a room with himself or his guitar.



.:: My liking him ::.
Sometimes he feels the same way, he initiated everything, always does. We have feelings for each other (mine basically "love", his... God knows), and it seems that feeling comes and goes for him. In the past he's literally begged me to forgive him for his painfully typical teenage spazzout phases (smoking, drinking, trying to act like one of the boys), and he begged me to take him back. What gets me is that he makes so much effort at times, others I feel like a spare part. My friends say that for some reason he makes effort, even wants me in his life, but they can't figure why he is the way he is with me, or his attitudes - hot/cold. Maybe without the long distance, something more could happen, but that aside... I just don't know. He says he doesn't feel the same as me now, but I recall from what he's said a few times that he thought he was leading me on before, so maybe he's not going to say anything even if he does like me 'cause there's no point? His feelings are fickle, so that might be why, I suppose. He said he wasn't willing to try with me again, 'cause he refused to hurt me and he was "unstable". To be fair, he was distant but displayed a lot of angst/self-pity from what I saw.

Now he seems desperate for a relationship (at college) now, and we're less than ideal given the situation and atmosphere lately. Anyway. Now an "old friend" of his has shown up, and they're having this "great connection that's too good to be true"... he said how they're hanging out this week and probably "hooking up as a couple", so that last chick is out of the picture. Since then he's been acting stressy towards me. :roll

Not five months ago it was me and him talking about how we wanted to be together, a month later he got his panties in a twist after a roadtrip and was all "I can't commit. Yes I want to be with you but it's not worth it, for you. I'm too immature. I can't put myself forth." blah blah. Then he got distant, worked like a crazy guy, didn't talk more than 3 times til our spat where he left. Come on... if he cared that much about me he'd have done something about it, not run away, right?

Maybe I'm too much hard work in more ways than one, and we conflict too much? =/


.:: His stress outs ::.
I'm pretty open about stuff, he can be but when it comes to "our" issues, he doesn't address them. Instead he'll lash out at me, like how the other day I said he should perform the vox to his own song, not use his friend, and he bit my head off about it, saying "JESUS. you're really pushing my buttons here" -it was crazy. That aside, we had a truly great day of talking (all of which he was making effort) and clicking as we can so well.

Same crap happened last night, though, when he was trying to cover a certain song and failed. He kept cursing and saying he's frustrated beyond belief, then when he said "I'm just stubborn" 'cause I reacted, I said "No, you're just irritable" (he was being a pansy) and he basically stopped talking to me and disappeared like half hour later. When he came back a while later, he wasn't talking to me, and when I did approach him it was so stand-off-ish and making excuses. I could have hit him. It's a contrast to sometimes when he's all "HI HI HI" and all over me, even if it's about his music or whatever. I even woke up in the middle of the night, sat online for a lil while and he didn't approach me. (he's in a different time zone) Lame. Schizo much? o_O

There's also the case that he wrote/performed this one damned song that got me irritated/confused. He was going on to me about it so when I read the lyrics I swear to God it sounded personal... The good kind, but ugh... I don't let myself believe it might be aimed at me 'cause we're not "that way" anymore, I mean he doesn't feel the same so what was that about? Either he's clueless, or sadistic. And I don't even know for sure he'd describe me as he described the person he was effectively hoping to be like and with in the song. Definitely doesn't sound like any other chick he's been into, it referred to our disagreements and such. A friend who knows our situation was like, "Almost seems he's talking about you, but don't get your hopes up because he's teenagery and odd lately".


K that was a grueling essay. I'm honestly sorry. Thank you so much if you tried to piece all that together. Help?

More *copy and paste - long* but I asked a (mutual) friend for advice:

[pasted]
We might be "naturally close" if that makes sense, but man we've had some rough spots. :confused

He left for a month ("distanced himself", he claims) after our huge fight, 'cause he met some chick (Melissa) and rubbed it in my face, but my response to his message was well-deserved. That was two months after him pulling away from me, and how we felt about each other (summary: "Give up on a relationship with me. I can't commit. I can't be there. It isn't me right now. I do want you but I'll just hurt you. I'm all me me me. You're willing to make sacrifices, I'm not. I'm not 10% mature enough. I'll just bury myself in work til I snap again. I refuse to ###$ you over again."), and he was distant for that whole time. He inboxed me a while before upon getting back from a road trip, I can't recall much of it but it was basically "I won't defend myself. I'm truly sorry. I don't know who I am, anymore."

So yeah he came back late September, apologised, and we worked on friendship. He said a convo with a friend and the fact he was going home that weekend made him check up on email/VF. The chick "let him down" weeks before (never dated her, so he said, but he still had the crush), and seeing a post of mine containing lyrics he wrote inspired by one of my journals made him figure I didn't hate him.

He seems happier, only occasionally down or weird ("American dream" attitude, lame clichés or similar "live for today wooo"ness). Like one minute he wants to go home to another college, then God knows. He's beyond fickle (his life dreams even changed x_x), dramatizes his "problems", and almost empty of what you'd maybe call "sweetness" -it seems, least what I gather. I noticed him post something that made me kinda embarrassed for him, displays the still apparent "change" (attitude): <i>"overworkedness, tiredness, bad relationships, having your heart broken, drinking, drugs, and general unhappiness with my spot in life have done wonders for my writing as well."</i> It's like he wishes he was like his music idols (whiny self-made victim kind) -see his MySpace, maybe. Dunno about now but he once recognised that in himself, said I was right about everything all along and he was sorry for it. =/

The week he got back, he actually asked me whether he should "blue bell" Melissa or sleep with her then leave town, as if that'd pay her back for leading him on or whatever she'd done (he's a virgin, so wtf @ player attitude?). I made him feel like an idiot, 'cause he sounded like one, and he basically said I'd made his mind up for him. Personally, I don't think she was that interested, and later he used the "She's a bad girl" excuse. So yeah he's being a fairly stereotypical teenager along with bad self-absorbedness (not exaggerating the second thing :die).

I'm tolerant because of his age/history/self-hate, and I do want to be friends, given his effort/return towards me I thought he did, too. Admittedly I did rant at him (we do that, I'm terrible for it) a few weeks back to let him know how I feel about some things, how I don't like hearing about the chicks. We resolved some stuff, but he can be so infuriating. :disturbing

Anyway, said he ended ties with Melissa (saying "it'd never work", "she was bad", she'd been "leading him on"). Then met an old friend (as "head in the clouds" as he is), not two weeks later started dating her, always saying they "have a like whoa connection". He seemed doubtful at times, but made sure to keep me informed. -_- He's been saying how he wants a serious relationship in college, even after telling me he'd probably be dating the chick that following week he said he's jealous of couples and wants that closeness. Guess he found someone for that. It's gone from wanting peer approval to this kinda stuff.

On topic... We got on well that week, he was great, but come weekend that changed. Like I mentioned in A_Regs, attitude changes, lashouts. This being the week he told me he'd start dating the chick. Ugh, he knows how I feel yet he flirted (and he <b>hates</b> people giving lead-ons, hypocrite much?), he even went on to me about a song he wrote that feels like it could easily be aimed at me (if he still felt the same, and he's said he doesn't) since I can't think of a chick he doesn't "see eye to eye" with, not to mention a few other of the lyrics. When I was like "Hmm" he said "Dunno where it came from!". I realise he's not into me now, with how he treats me how couldn't I? But a friend who knows the sitch agreed it was odd. Also his profile, "I still believe in fairy tales", was basically a term he often used for our "situation/relationship"...

I'm reading into everything, right? I'm just sick of tolerating his expected back and forthness, but I figure that sometime down the line, I dunno... over the time it seems I count for something when it comes down to it. I've thought his feelings were totally dead before, but he's surprised me several times, even literally begged for my forgiveness and wanted me back. Guess I'm kidding myself now, this is a mess. D:

There's just the question of why he came back. At times he seems to value me like whoa, others he's basically an ass or distant with me. Now he starts dating this chick and suddenly he's pissy with me, ignoring me like he did when he met Melissa. Again with the hot and coldness. Not sure if you remember earlier in the year, I asked you about his attitude? That wasn't long before yet again (third time in a year -_-) he wanted to be with me, then a "personality crisis" hit and like I said he folded. You mentioned he didn't seem right when he spoke to you? Well these latest lash outs weren't even mocking or rational, more angry/defensive. He denies that he's been pissy even after hours of ignoring me (usually we talk non-stop on msn) then deciding to talk... started a convo saying "while we're being pissy with each other" when I didn't <b>do</b> anything wrong! x_x


Then on the 30th he inboxed me having taken offence to something kinda trivial (screenname from day before, wtf?). Jesus he was really pissed as though I'd attacked him, and he spat in my face that he was dating the chick, among 3 paragraphs of unleashed anger. I calmed the situation, so he came to talk on msn to apologise for misunderstanding, but later went quiet and standoffish again. Later we didn't talk, he left and I noticed (was using msn polygamy to get old emotes) that he's just blocked my new email :stare... what's odd here is he'd previously blocked my <b>old</b> email (I mentioned it and said he does when mad at me, and since I don't use it anymore he left it -or so I thought) only he's now unblocked that. He must realise I could see him, if so then wtf. Lame drama, I know. D:

So I'm not approaching him, writing this helped. I can only hope this isn't permanent, that he just doesn't know what to say, but admittedly I'm getting dejavu, and worried he'll run away again. Maybe he can't handle me liking him now he's finally in a relationship, but he knows how I feel about him, nothing's changed... so I don't get this. Something just isn't right. Why is it sometimes he can walk away so easily? Others he can't keep away? It's almost tied in to when other chicks are on the scene. The girl he met before he left... now this new one he's dating, and he turns his back, shuts me out again or doesn't care enough to face me. Sometimes it's like he deliberately tries to hurt me with words, or being this way (he knows it gets to me), and I'd go as far as to say he can actually hate me occasionally... right now, seems that's about right. :confused
[/needed rant]

I was irritated the other day, so made a thread which a friend familiar with the sitch a friend posted <a href="http://forums.intpcentral.com/showthread.php?t=25303">here</a> in an off-site forum, wanting unbiased opinions. That's like... more of the above + history. Bit of a read, emotional distressed confused women rant stuff. Oh dear @ me. :lol

I guess I should back off and let things lie, but I'm a painfully typical worrier and I'm clueless on what to think or do. Blocking him back wouldn't solve anything... I guess. His whole behaviour is just confusing, and a little upsetting 'cause I really, really like him -even if friendship is all he can give. And I worry for him sometimes, like when he says weird cliché stuff about life, stuff that's almost out of reality. No rush or pressure, at all, but I really value your take on things.
[/end paste]


Thanks if you read that monster essay, you're awesome. I fail @ not being wordy. D:

Him underneaththestars. It seems like this guy isn't going to change any time soon and you can't really make someone else change. Maybe you should look inside yourself to see if you feel so atracted to him becouse of the way someone else treated you.
Maybe you are lonely and you just need to have feelings for someone and things are getting a bit out of hand. You need to distance yourself from this guy inside your own heart, if you feel that you will get hurt. Just think about it and try to figure out why you feel this way for him even though he misstreats you.
I think that if you get stronger and you know how your mind works more, you might be able to just be his friend, if that is what you will want. I know this is difficult and you care about this person and you feel like if you try to stop caring so much, you would be abandoning him. But you have to take care of yourself first and stop depending on him.
Tell him how he makes you feel and tell him to figure things out for himself as well, becouse you won't be able to help him otherwise. Talking to you about his girlfriends or crushes when he knows how you feel is cruel, and he should just come out and tell you how he feels about you. He should realise that his attitude makes you confused, even if he sais you are only friends. Good luck!

I get that, but people fall for idiots all the time, it doesn't always reflect on them. Even good, decent people can be thoughtless idiots (like guy in question). He's not always a jerk, but this whole fiasco is just beyond me. From start to finish, everything between us, especially since our breakup. He's been acting so weird, so typically teenaged.

He hasn't spoken to me in coming up to two weeks since the fallout... sure not as long as the last time we didn't talk, but I'm so confused. Since his new relationship he's completely shut me out again.

Just everything he said when we last "broke up", that he wasn't willing to "try again" 'cause it's the same cycle, that he "couldn't be there" with everything going on at home, and the things I mentioned in my first post of this thread. Commitment stuff.

I figure his coming back after that month of silence (late September) was significant... 'cause as a friend said, unless he has feelings for me there was just zero need to come back. And my instincts, they aren't usually wrong, and never have been wrong where he's concerned. =/

My head cannot cope with all this. I feel like I need answers, and I'm so damned isolated here it's like the world's spinning around me while I'm just stuck. And his running off again, it just hurts. Is it so easy to just shut off like that? Is he giving up because the situation isn't perfect? Or just moving on?

And I'm sure no-one will bother to read or understand this. It's a headjob to me, let alone anyone else. Wish I could step outside myself for a while to answer my own plight here.

I actually hate feeling.

I'm sorry you feel isolated. I didn't mean to say that you are being foolish, just that maybe you need to move on. I think you might be right and he does have feelings for you and that is why he came back, but he's the one who has to act on those feelings. I don't know why exactly he would act this way, but it's not something that you can controll. I guess you can just tell him that you will be there for him as a friend no matter what, when you speak to him again, and it could make him open up a bit more about his emotions. I'm sorry if I can't be more helpful.

Thank you. Yeah I'm trying to keep distracted and all. I have a few friends who do know about all this, but I feel like a burden on them and end up being as spazzy or pushing them away like the guy does to me. At least I'm off my antibiotics, 'cause for some reason when I'm on tetracyclines I actually get depressed and it's 10x worse. o.o

Anyway. Someone said maybe he's avoiding me either because he does have feelings and wants to avoid messing up his new relationship, or doesn't feel comfortable that I still like him now he's trying to move on. It's all so unfair, the distance and all.

I keep blaming myself, 'cause I am known to be demanding, insecure and he sometimes described/s my letting him know things (letters, journal) as "attacks". Maybe he can't deal with those, it's something he mentioned when we broke up. But then I tell myself he knows how much he means to me, and if I meant something then he wouldn't push away like this, surely.

I guess there's nothing I can do unless he feels the need to talk to me, or fix things. I'm scared I'll push him away with my anger at all this. He's so cold sometimes, and his ignoring me like he did months ago just confuses and hurts me. =/

Thank you, though.

Oh, I know it hurts when the person we like ignores us. It's hard to let go, and I'm not sure how to do it. But you have to take care of yourself and distracting yourself is a good idea. It must be very difficult for you to care about him so much and know that he probably cares about you too when he is so cold and distant.
I think we feel atracted to these guys becouse we are afraid of getting hurt too, just like he might be. So, we develop feelings for someone who is cold becouse then we at least know how they will hurt us. It's that way for me, anyway. I think your friend has a point, that he has feelings for you and wants to protect his relationship. I'm sorry you are going through this and I hope things will get better.