My relationship with my mom

I am going to be 39 years old soon. All my life, it's been a roller coaster ride with my mother. My mother was very abusive with me as a child verbally, physically, and psychologically (lots of mixed messages from her). I would like to think that by the time a child (me) reaches a certain age, parents begin to humble down and treat their child like an adult and, in some situations, take some responsibility for the past. - especially when they've witnessed their child's adult life being devoted to therapy and getting better.

My mother hasn't changed. She's only softened up a tad bit because I am married now and my husband has stood up to her. Now, that she knows that I have a VERY protective husband, she's softened. But the verbal part of the abuse still has not come to an end.

With my mom, everything about me, my lifestyle, my decisions, my husband and friends are all WRONG. My husband and I have had enough.

Here's the trickiest part of all. My mom is VERY gifted and smart. Because of her fear of conflict and confrontation, most of what she says that hurts the most are of a passive aggressive nature which makes anyone the subject of her ridicule look like an idiot should they attempt to defend themselves! According to her, everything is all in my head, "I analyze too much", "I think too much", "I'm just looking for a reason to find something wrong", and she will often respond to me saying, "I was just kidding", "You misunderstood me", "I didn't mean it that way", and will even attempt to re-write history with contradictions and so on.

When my mom is NOT being verbally abusive, she resorts to over-compensating. She will make it like my husband and I are the best things that ever happened since sliced-bread, and she will fluff us up with endless compliments that are so off the wall sickeningly sweet and overboard, we will be showered with material goods, and she will over-sympathize with our current situation (having financial problems and health issues). She does that to win us over so that the next time she goes for my jugular, she somehow hopes it will soften the blow so that I don't react to it. She is, again, very talented and manipulative like that.

However, what my mom has yet to realize (and here is where she is not so bright) is that my husband I don't trust the overboard lovey-dovey stuff. My mom has also yet to realize that when she throws another underhanded attack toward me that I DON'T give in and give her a carte blanche to say what she wants just because she has showered me with extreme kindness a month ago. She will do whatever it takes to keep me from defending myself, my life, and my friends hence the underhanded blows.

To be fair, let's just say that out of all of her underhanded blows, there is a small percentage that I AM misperceiving. But I like to err on the side of suspicion because at least that way, my self-esteem isn't further crushed and I can walk out of the situation knowing that I've cleaned it up. I will say with confidence that if I do misunderstand her, it would be only 5% or less of the time. My mother has an agenda with me that is CLEAR as a whistle. I have known this all my life. Her mission is to mold me into the same person that her own parents have molded her into. But unlucky for my mother, even at 38 years old, I am my own person and am not brainwash-able. But my mom hasn't given up. She still has hope. The more my mom is hopeful that I will change to suit her needs, the more I suffer when I am in her presence or when I talk to her.

Because of my mother, I am a VERY defensive person. I feel that I am left with only a little piece of myself left as the bigger part of myself has been taken away in the past from all the abuse. But with what I have left, I protect it with every cell of my body. All of my energy is consumed by this in my daily life. And whenever my mother attempts to recover that little part of myself that still exists, I fight like an army to protect it - "it" being the dignity and self-esteem still left - my pride - who I am. Nobody is going to get that, and I will even die for that part of myself. My mom will reduce me to being "over-dramatic", but I'm dead serious. I will risk my own life for that part of me that is still alive.

Since I have been roughly 26 years old, I have set out on a mission to gain back everything or most of what I lost due to all the abuse over the years so that I no longer have to utilize all my energy into protecting the little piece of me left. Since then, I have been going to therapy and taking medication. At age 30, after returning from Japan, I went to another therapy. I am still unable to handle my mother. I am still on my mission trying and getting into everything an anything out of desperation to get my life back. At the present time, due to financial problems, I am unable to do therapy. I still keep researching and thinking of ideas to at least make me better handle my mother and my own life.

So, here's my question. I have often thought about having a one on one LONG TALK with my mom. I have ALWAYS wanted her to know what she put me through, how it hurt me, how what she did was wrong and everything that she did (that she has long forgotten) and how each episode made ME feel. I feel there IS an adult and feeling way to discuss this with my mother without me becoming mean or insulting toward her. What do you all think about this? I have already made a list of all the boundaries that I wish her not to pass through, and she has accepted that. But I thought that a talk might help as well.

Please give me your feedback.

Layla - I'm glad you decided to post your situation and questions. I feel so in tune with everything you said... I experienced many, many of the same or similar things with my mother (and my father to a slightly lesser extent). I've done lots and lots of reading on the topic of childhood mental/emotional/verbal abuse and the types of parents that normally inflict it (reading list at the bottom).

So, here's my question. I have often thought about having a one on one LONG TALK with my mom. I have ALWAYS wanted her to know what she put me through, how it hurt me, how what she did was wrong and everything that she did (that she has long forgotten) and how each episode made ME feel. I feel there IS an adult and feeling way to discuss this with my mother without me becoming mean or insulting toward her. What do you all think about this? I have already made a list of all the boundaries that I wish her not to pass through, and she has accepted that. But I thought that a talk might help as well

From what you wrote, in my unprofessional opinion, it sounds like your mom has, at least, a destructive narcissistic pattern (possibly fullblown NPD) and possibly even Borderline Personality Disorder (BPD - it's the lovey/witch flips that make me suspect it). If this is the case, then it will be completely useless to have your long talk with your mom because she will refuse to acknowledge any of it, may not even remember some of it, and will most certainly try to flip it all around onto you in order to protect her fragile grandiose view of herself. In the end, you'll only end up feeling frustrated, invalidated, and trivialized -- again.

I agree with everything you want to say and that you should say it... but a letter is probably the best way for your sanity to do it. Write the letter to get it all out of you, and give it to her (or not) without any expectations about how she will react or that she will change. You may even decide during your letter-writing that you can't justify even continuing your relationship with your mother, or at least not a deeply caring one; you might even want to "divorce" her (and that's perfectly OK).

A letter allows you some distance, you can say what you need to say without getting emotional and without having to deal with her getting emotional. It's matter-of-fact and can't escalate into a screaming match or a guilt fest - like a conversation could. It's more humane in a way because you can edit your letter a million times until you feel you're saying exactly what you mean... but once you say something out loud in a conversation, there is no taking it back. As for insulting her... you are only responsible for expressing your truth... how she reacts to it is entirely her responsibilty -- not yours.

It's great that she has "accepted" your list of boundaries... but how well does she respect them and how do you enforce them if/when she doesn't comply? Is her behavior consistent, or does it depend on whether she feels like it or not? Do you still feel bad/guilty/ashamed for asking that she respect you and your needs? All these questions might help you decide whether having a relationship with her is even worth risking your health and peace of mind over.

I wrote letters to both my parents - PM me if you would like me to share some of the contents.

My "reading list":
The Emotionally Abused Woman
Self Esteem (and the Self Esteem Workbook)
Toxic Parents
Divorcing a Parent
The Drama of the Gifted Child
Children of the Self-Absorbed
Why Is It Always About You?
Surviving a Borderline Parent
Understanding the Borderline Mother

Best of luck whatever you decide to do!

What really irks me is that my mother feels validated by everyone else - my brother's family and her friends. Because they are nice and never question her giving her what she needs, my mom is convinced I am the one with the problem. But the thing is... my mother is a completely different person around everyone else. She may know what she's doing consciously or she may not?

She also outwardly refuses to think that there's anything wrong with her because she's been able to FUNCTION all these years by having worked her whole life, going out with friends socially, and having raised two kids by herself. Because I have so many problems functioning in society (unlike my mom), she uses that to PROVE that she is fine and that it is ME who is crazy.

So, I can't stand the fact that she thinks it's ME. It bothers me to no end. I ask myself, "How do I ever get her to learn that it's HER? (the one with the problem)"

Plicketycat, thanks for your feedback. I should read the book you have listen on self-esteem.

I guess looking at this whole thing from an objective perspective, it would be ridiculous of me to persist in struggling with my mother. Am I right? Subjectively, I want to rub her nose in what she's done to me and convince her (in any way possible) that she's the one with the problem. With that, I live on hope.

You know, I got the idea to talk to my mom about the full-scope of my abuse with her from an article that I read where a daughter and father got back on terms with one another through one of those types of "talks" and I was envious. But then I have to realize who my mom is..... I've told her bits and pieces before of what's she done to me before, and she doesn't remember any of it - just like you said.

I have never been so confused before in my life.

What really irks me is that my mother feels validated by everyone else - my brother's family and her friends. Because they are nice and never question her giving her what she needs, my mom is convinced I am the one with the problem. But the thing is... my mother is a completely different person around everyone else. She may know what she's doing consciously or she may not?

Sounds like classic NPD/BPD behavior. She feels entitled to get everything she wants her way from everyone... totally NPD. Being a little different around different people is healthy adaptation, but being completely different around other people is not... it's BPD. Some of it she may be conscious of, but most she probably isn't... she's so messed up by her own MI problems that her mind won't even allow her to recognize the crap the she is doing is weird/hurtful.

Let me guess... when you were growing up, your brother was "perfect" and you "couldn't do anything right". Am I right?!

Just wondering... have you discussed any of this with your brother? What does he think? Does he remember any of it? Does he see any of it and is just too trained and self-protective to do anything about it? Or are you the only one she treats like this (because, that's actually pretty common with BPD and it doesn't mean you're the crazy one)?

She also outwardly refuses to think that there's anything wrong with her because she's been able to FUNCTION all these years by having worked her whole life, going out with friends socially, and having raised two kids by herself.

Borderlines are very adept at appearing normal and functional to the rest of the world, their "craziness" only comes out when triggered by the object of their rage... which is usually someone who either reminds them of what they hate about themselves or who they have projected all their negative traits onto so they can pretend it's not part of them.

Because I have so many problems functioning in society (unlike my mom), she uses that to PROVE that she is fine and that it is ME who is crazy.

So, I can't stand the fact that she thinks it's ME. It bothers me to no end. I ask myself, "How do I ever get her to learn that it's HER? (the one with the problem)"

I feel your pain and understand your indignation and frustration. My mother does the exact same thing.

You will never be able to get her to see that the problem is her behavior and that your emotional/social issues are a direct result of the crap she did to you and continues to do to you. That realization is literally life-threatening to her, so her mind will never accept it. So, she's going to keep dumping it on you... and enlisting everyone she knows (including your family) to dump it on you, too.

The only thing you can do is change your beliefs, attitudes and behaviors. Stop accepting her projections... even if it's just within your own headspace. Give up any hope or expectations that your mother will miraculously understand, apologize, change and be the loving/caring/nurturing mother you needed as a child. That mother never existed and probably never will. You are an adult now and you can give your child self all the love/care/nurture it needs... you just need to stop taking in your mother's poison and exorcise the demons she planted inside you. Sure, you want justice, you want vengeance, you want retribution, you want vindication... boy, do I understand that feeling. But the only way to get that, I mean really get it, is to extricate yourself from her mess and stop letting her project her crap into you... then she'll have to feel all this nasty stuff for herself because you aren't doing her suffering for her anymore.

You know, I got the idea to talk to my mom about the full-scope of my abuse with her from an article that I read where a daughter and father got back on terms with one another through one of those types of "talks" and I was envious. But then I have to realize who my mom is..... I've told her bits and pieces before of what's she done to me before, and she doesn't remember any of it - just like you said.

Read those books!!! Especially "Divorcing a Parent" and "Surviving a Borderline Parent" --- you don't need to forgive, you don't owe your mother your life or loyalty, she doesn't have to understand or accept, you don't have to explain, explaining/confronting does little or no good with NPD/BPD anyway. Any chances of reconciliation (like the proverbial snowflake in hell) will take your mother deciding to change herself first and then years of repairing the damage between the two of you.... and lots of "talks" guided by a therapist. Give up on the hope of reconciliation and focus on taking care of yourself! Put the responsibility for the abuse back on your mother and then let it go.

I have never been so confused before in my life.

You and me both, sweetie. I'm in the same boat, just rowing a little faster There are days when I'm doing really good with myself, and then there are days when I doubt everything I feel and believe. I manage to have days when I believe in myself, but days when I beat myself and feel horrible are still more common. I have horrible anxiety. I suffer from PTSD because of the way my parents treated me. I divorced my mother, and might have to divorce my dad as well since he is doing nothing I asked to help me repair our relationship. Sometimes I'm scared I will have no family left when all this is over. That here will be no one left who loves me... but then I remember that I have my husband, a good (new) psychologist, and (luckily) my sister.... and of course myself and all my "forum friends".

We're here for you on this forum whenever you need us. I'm here for you. I understand what you're going through and understand how crazy it feels. You are not crazy and this $#%^ really did happen to you and it really is wrong.

L, hi.

My mother was very abusive, and I to have wrote out a list of boundaries that she can not cross. She respected most of them.

I also had to have a talk with her. I told her all about the abuse, how she was hard on me, yet my sister lead a wonderful life under mothers rule.

When I had the talk w/my mom, I did not attack her ways, I just stated observations and what I was willing to have as a NEW relationship with her. If she did not comply she was out of my life.

Because of her efforts, and I talk to her as a friend, more than a mom, we get along pretty well.

Red

yes, as Red says, if your mother respects your new boundaries and genuinely you feel that she is capable of making the effort to forge a new healthier relationship... by all means, don't throw the baby out with the bath water!

I still stand by letter first, then talk second... it lets everyone communicate and digest things without pressure and emotional flare-ups.

Ok. I will buy those books. Is the self-esteem one really helpful? I will definitely get the one on divorcing the parent. Thanks for those tips.

About my brother...My brother remembers some things and forgets others, but then when I was 10, he left to live with my dad after the divorce. One one occasion, I sent my brother an email stating all the troubles that I have with mom, and I received a beautiful letter from him back validating everything. He was on my side and new exactly what I was talking about. He even admitted to my mother always doting on him. One of my other brothers has passed on, but they were ALWAYS the superior ones because my mother DOES dote on men. She submits to them, acts cute-sy in front of them, plays stupid in front of them, and showers them with compassion and compliments consistently.

Anyway, just two years ago, my mom and I had gotten into a HUGE fight. I called my brother. I guess I was too upset for him to handle, but he said he no longer wanted any part in any problems with mom and he hung up on me. So, that's the end of it. My mom even bragged to me saying that he (my brother) came over to her house to console her because he felt that I may have hurt her.

Now, my brother is forever on my mom's side. See, I've ALWAYS had trouble getting other family members to validate me to no avail. My mother, again, knows how to get what she wants and when she wants it. Interestingly enough, my grandfather was the same way. The only difference is that my mom's two sisters saw the truth. My mom to this day is still virtually applauding my grandfather for "his words of wisdom" and manliness.

I retract my previous open-minded comment --- throw that ugly baby out with the bath water!!! It's a hideous ogre baby that will eat you alive! I don't think your mother will be capable of genuinely respecting you. Things just got a million times more difficult and change less probable if her father was NPD/BPD... this is the only behavior she knows, this is her "normal". Save yourself now, worry about the rest of it later.

It's good that your brother sent that email validating your memories and feelings. I hope you kept it. That is his real truth and you should cherish it, knowing that brother loves you in his secret heart where it is safe from your mother. You have proof, even if it's hidden, that someone else in your family saw what you saw... you were validated that one time and it might be the only validation you'll ever get (but you did get one).

I know it sucks that he seems to have changed his tune, but it's probably tearing him up too much being caught in the middle. If he was the "perfect" kid, he probably feels unbearable and overwhelming responsibility to take her side and protect your mother. Plus he's seen what her rage is like and can you blame him for not wanting her to turn it on him? It's messed up and it's not right, but remember he grew up with her too and is broken in his own ways. Give him time. You might also want to try to reach out to him again... and promise him that you will not talk about your mother or expect him to take any sides, that you just want to have your brother back in your life... it might be all he needs.

I just wanted to stop in and thank you all again for your advice. I will definitely update you as soon as I start reading and making firm decisions as to how I'm going about this.

Well, I am here to update that I have (back in February) officially divorced my mother.

She did punish me by taking me out of the will, but I had expected that. She didn't tell me that she took me out of the will. I just know that. She won't tell me because she's still hoping that I'll spring back into her arms. She thinks that I am THAT stupid. Stupid enough to fall for her very last game.

So, that's my story.

To anybody who responded to me in a PM. I am sorry, please resend them. They are no longer in my inbox.