Any chance she might come back?

Basically back at the beginning of January I met a slightly older woman and we kind of hit it off, I'm 38 by the way. Well to cut a long story short, I have been seeing her since then... I don't really know how to describe the relationship as we weren't boyfriend/girlfriend but it was a lot more than friends with benefits. She's 45, three kids and going through a divorce - never in my wildest dreams did I think I would end up in this situation and I don't really know how it happened! She's still living with her ex-husband although they been separated for 18 months, have separate rooms and the house is up for sale although taking forever to sell but they are also trying to make it easy on their kids.

Anyway so the story is that from January to May we were seeing each other pretty intensely, almost every night and we even went away for Valentines Day and her birthday. When we weren't together it was whatsapp 24/7. Everything was going good but at the end of April she started saying things like she felt she was holding me back from meeting someone my own age and possibly having a family of my own, I told her to stop overthinking but she was adamant that we should take a break. So we went for three weeks in May without any contact, I got back in touch with her and we chatted a bit and she dropped the bombshell that she had started seeing someone. It hit me quite hard and I went a week feeling like rubbish in all honesty and eventually messaged her a long winded message saying I wanted her to be happy and couldn't do the friend thing. I then blocked her and deleted her from FB. Kept her blocked for about a week before messaging her just before I went on holiday for a few days saying I had fallen for her, wanted to be with her, didn't care about the complications, baggage, etc, etch. It was all true.

We then arranged to meet up when I got back and went for a meal and to the cinema at the beginning of June, I fully expected us to just be friends and she was going to let me down gently after having sent that message but in the cinema she held my hand and then afterwards we went back to mine. I thought we were back together. I asked her about the guy she had been seeing and she said it was over and nothing, was just a couple of dates. A couple of days later she was working in another part of town and her company put her up so I went to stay over at the hotel she had been put up in and we went out in the evening, the entire night she seemed really distracted and was on whatsapp a lot, almost every opportunity she had like when I went to the bar or the toilet. I called her up on it and she said it was nothing. We saw each other a few other times in June but it was constantly on my mind.

I had also noticed that she wasn't messaging me anywhere as near as much as when we first got together and it sounds a bit stalkery but everytime I went on Whatsapp I could see she was online, I'd message her and even though she was online it would take sometimes an hour to respond and it felt like someone was more her priority. Throughout most of June it just felt like I was making all the effort to message her and it was a chore to her. She also kept going out with her friends on a Friday or Saturday night rather than see me. Then a couple of weeks ago she came over to mine and we were on the sofa watching tv but she then went on whatsapp, a few times she leaned forward so I wouldn't be able to see who she was messaging. I caught a glimpse of her whatsapp and there was 4 numbers there where she hadn't saved them as a contact so instead of a name you just see +4479 and then the rest of the number. I'm assuming now these were guys who had given her their numbers on nights out or something along those lines.

This was massively bugging me so a few days after that I sent her a long message asking what was going on and if she was in an emotional relationship with someone else and she wrote back saying that she wasn't seeing anyone but in a roundabout way was keeping her options open - she's always maintained that long term she needs someone her own age and who also has kids. I didn't really know what to think and she said can we just keep things casual. I didn't really want to but kind of agreed but she kept coming up with excuses whereby she couldn't see me.

We met up for a drink on Sunday night and spoke a bit about it and she asked if it were possible for us just to be friends. I told her I don't think I can and said I obviously want more, told her to sleep on it and on Monday night she sent me a message saying: "Rich sorry but gonna take a break I'm sorry don't worry I won't block you as we can still stay in touch x things are different in not feeling it anymore x sorry x". I asked if there was someone else and she replied with "Of course I meet people when I go out I suppose i won't know what I'm looking for until it hits me". The final message she sent read "I suppose I just need to fancy someone more please don't feel bad I know you have tried harder lately buts it's not enough sorry".

And that's it really, I didn't reply to that. She messaged me last night saying 'You ok?' and I didn't reply. Going through a second break up with her in the space of a couple of months and it sucks a bit I suppose. I guess it's probably finally over and just wanted to write it all down to get it off my chest and maybe get some advice. My head is all over the place really. Do you think she'll get back in touch with me at some point? I don't know what I'll do if she does.

Hey richdeniro,

Sucks man, and I don't know if any advice/thoughts are going to ease how you are feeling about this now.

Some thoughts though (and yea these won't help you feel better either, but maybe later) -

It does appear she has been honest with you including that as someone recently divorced, she is dating but not ready to commit to a new relationship. Also that the age difference, and her children are on her mind. Both of those concerns are reasonable. Sure, it's just a few years of difference, but she is at an age where many people go through a transition (you may do so too when her age).

The children factor is a big, and un-explainable except to live it.

Of course she could just have issues with commitment that affected her previous relationships and yours. Hard to know. Few are self-honest enough to face 'it's me' and even if they can, may not say so.

A hard question to ponder -

Understood that what she did hit you hard, as it would anyone, but the question is are you hanging on now because of deep/sure love for her, or out of fear of accepting the pain? These are different
motives.

I think you would be better off without her.

I do think I am in love with her and would happily accept the baggage and complications. I told her this before we got back together for the second time but don't know what she's feeling now. She did tell me I was her best friend and she never had the type of relationship that we had together whereby we shared such a great connection and got on so well. I felt the same about her.

I feel stupid that I sent her so many insecure messages about her being on whatsapp a lot and taking so long to reply to me. In a way I wonder if my neediness contributed to her losing what she once felt for me.

Do you think her last message about needing to be with someone she fancies more means she wants to be with someone who she just fancies physically. There was this one guy I was certain something was going on with on whatsapp, he was the main reason I kept calling her up on it and was the name I saw with a few kisses. I looked at his facebook & twitter (couldn't help it when I saw his name) and he was basically the exact opposite of me.... looks like a tattooed football hooligan, alpha male and a complete racist with the stuff he posts. Obviously I can't tell her this as I don't want her to think I have been stalking her or anything like that.

I know I'm overthinking stuff and I shouldn't but just trying to make sense of her final messages to me. Did she just lose attraction to me within a couple of weeks or was it a way of trying to let me go.

I'm quite certain she had a fling with him a few months before me as I asked her when we got together if I was the first person she'd been with after her divorce and she said she was with a guy for a couple of weeks last year but she called it off because she said he was the type of guy who had 4 kids by 4 different women. I think she got back in touch with him during our three week breakup in May and was the person she was 'seeing' when I initially got back in touch with her. I don't know if they have met up in all the time since May but clearly they have been messaging a lot.

Hey rich,

All I can do is guess, so a guess then (and I apologize if this hurts to read) -

It could be she is going through a 'mid-life crisis', a label typically used to describe male behavior, but it happens for women too. Sucks of course because for you this has become a serious relationship.

This is the 'I don't know what I want' crisis, but it happens.

I never thought of it that way to be honest but could explain her behaviour since we got back together the second time. Her personality appeared to completely change, she went from being lovely in every sense of the world to someone who was more narcissistic and lacked empathy.

Plus she now very much just enjoys attention, the more the better and probably isn't too fussy how many people give it.

I feel like a fool and like I've been used because obviously when she met me she had come out of unhappy, sexless marriage and felt very unattractive. It now feels like she used me to rebuild her confidence and now that she has that is using it to get so much more male attention.

My friend said regarding her last messages that I shouldn't take them personally and that she obviously is only thinking of herself and she is not even considering your feelings or the good times you had together. She's not in a place to be with someone good, someone who respects her and cares about her - she just wants attention and to feel attractive.

Hey rich,

richdeniro wrote:...Her personality appeared to completely change, she went from being lovely in every sense of the world to someone who was more narcissistic and lacked empathy.

Plus she now very much just enjoys attention, the more the better and probably isn't too fussy how many people give it.

I feel like a fool and like I've been used because obviously when she met me she had come out of unhappy, sexless marriage and felt very unattractive. It now feels like she used me to rebuild her confidence and now that she has that is using it to get so much more male attention.

My friend said regarding her last messages that I shouldn't take them personally and that she obviously is only thinking of herself and she is not even considering your feelings or the good times you had together. She's not in a place to be with someone good, someone who respects her and cares about her - she just wants attention and to feel attractive.

Your friend may be correct, but I am biased by my own recent experiences (and this means keep on questioning, we all have biases, and I do too).

I got involved with my ex while she was still working through her divorce, and yea, I also heard how her ex wasn't considerate enough, not attentive enough, etc. I just assumed this was true, but also I believed if I was extremely attentive that she'd be happy.

It was only later I started to question what was really going on, based on how she treated me. Then I started questioning, oh, okay maybe he stopped being attentive because of you.

You actually wrote many key insights above. Keep on writing.

p.s. if your gut is telling you this "It now feels like she used me to rebuild her confidence", it could be true. What happens next depends on you treating yourself with kindness.

When she messaged me last week the day after the breakup saying 'You ok?', I did actually write a message back to her but didn't send it and I won't but this is what I wrote down:


I really don't know, I always thought we would be friends but thinking back to the way you treated me in June and July makes me think no. You hurt me like no one has ever hurt me before and I don't think I'll ever get over it. I guess my friend was right when she said you were trouble and would hurt me again. I think I owe you my reasons so here goes and sorry if they come across as possibly a bit harsh but things are still a bit raw with me.

When I got back in touch after our first break you knew I didn't want to hear about you being with anyone else but you told me you were seeing someone anyway within about 5 messages. How honestly did you think I was going to feel. I know blocking you was wrong but I was in a very bad place. I'd never felt that kind of pain before and did tell you how I really felt about you a week later.

For that cinema night I had no expectation of us getting back together and thought we were just going to be friends. Obviously I hoped we would and felt amazing when you held my hand and came back to mine afterwards but you knew I’d spent the previous 5 weeks prior to that going through the worst pain and heartbreak of my life and you still led me on knowing that you were going to put me through it all again from the beginning especially after me telling you how I fell about you.

After that night I thought things would go back to how they were before but you were obviously involved with at least one other guy, even if it was just emotionally on texts, and you continued to break my heart and hurt me every single day by continuing it and even did it in my presence when we were together and tried to hide it. You even let me believe I was going crazy and being paranoid about it all by constantly denying it. I even said a number of times after we got back together that all I wanted was exclusivity. You may not have been with anyone physically but I actually think emotional relationships are just as, if not more painful for the other person.

The more I think about it, the more I can see you aren't the person I got to know from January to April. When we went to Bridge House you flirted with other guys so much in front of me that another couple actually came up to me and asked me if I was ok and wanted to leave with them. I was fine with it though as I knew at that time you were only interested in me and that we were together and I trusted you but your actions after we got back together the second time just felt worse as you were always so distant with me and I caught a glimpse of your whatsapp conversation with one guy and all I remember from it was seeing a load of kisses and hearts like we used to do together. It just made me feel so rubbish as your heart obviously wasn't with me but you continued to play with my feelings.

Not coming to Book of Mormon also absolutely devastated me, I honestly thought that you would never hurt me in that way but that was the moment I think for me that showed how little you cared about me. All I was trying to do was make you happy and you just threw it back in my face.

All the times we did breakup or have some sort of issues you thought so little of me that you preferred to do it over text. All we had been through and knowing how much I cared about you, you wouldn't even do it in person or let me explain things by just meeting for a coffee. Being dumped in the way you eventually did was soul destroying too.

Lastly how much you destroyed my confidence and self-esteem. At the beginning of our time together you constantly texted about how much I meant to you and how you wanted to help me in those areas I lacked confidence but the more I think about it, I don't think that was the case at all. I actually feel now like you used me subconsciously to rebuild your own confidence and get over your own loneliness issues from your marriage. Once I'd done that it was easy to just cast me aside. When you eventually dumped me your last message it made me feel like the most unattractive guy in the world.

I also don't think you are a particularly good friend in all honesty, that's not meant as a criticism as I think you give 100% to the significant other in your life but I think as a friend you probably don't care particularly much and it does show quite strongly. I think you lack a bit of empathy and are a bit narcissistic which when it comes to being a friend isn't really what I am looking for especially when all I would want is to be with you. I read back our old messages from June onwards after we got back together and you can count on one hand the actual times you actually ask about me, my day or how I am doing whereas before you messaged me constantly asking about those things. Yes that sounds needy which is not how it's meant to and I know you were going through a lot at that time, but I just feel that I would want more than a one sided friendship and I know you were on whatsapp most of the time with other guys anyway so don't feel it's much of an excuse to say you were so busy. I felt that it was just me making any sort of effort and at the end of the day I'd always long for the same sort of intimacy and the way it felt you cared like at the beginning of the year.

Anyway I know some of this sounds harsh but I had to get it off my chest and explain why I'm not so sure about being friends anymore. I don't know if you even realise how appallingly you have behaved since the beginning of June or if you even care but the non contact we have done has kind of opened my eyes a bit to it and how little respect you had for me - I know it wasn't intentional on your part so won't hold it against you or think badly of you. I just feel now that I didn't deserve to be put aside, picked up, put down and played with. I realise you weren't malicious in it but now see I deserved better than that.

Hey rich,

While everyone knows intellectually that dating is no sure thing, of course it can still hurt emotionally when it doesn't, especially if the dates have gone on for a while.

Also intellectually, one reason people date is to find out who the other person is in more depth. Sadly, yea, sometimes you find out that the other person isn't who they seemed to be initially. At least you found out now versus later. Again, it does seem she was somewhat honest with you, but it can be difficult to see clearly when we've become emotionally involved.

From her point of view, or really for anyone recently divorced, or separated, it's understandable they may just want to stay single for a while, date, flirt, nothing serious. Of course that may be her general attitude about relationships, and why her marriage suffered. Impossible to know. In other words, it may have no mattered what you did, if she is not able/ready for more than casual dating.

The main thing now is to take care of you. Do you have an friends you can talk this out with? If not a friend, if therapist for a while is possible, it can be worth it to pay for a few sessions, get this off your chest. Of course you are welcome to write here.

It can be hard to let go of feelings for another, but I do think you know enough to know she'd not be good for you if this continued.