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terrified to leave, can I turn this around?

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terrified to leave, can I turn this around?

Postby polyhigh » Tue Aug 04, 2015 2:52 am

Hello,
I am reaching out because i have so little support and wanted to get some advice. I dont have lots of therapy resources where I am not know who might be able to help. Sorry this is loooong.

I am in a relationship again with my ex_GF. She broke up with me after years of dealing with my neediness/clingyness and abandonment fears (i am 47 male, she is 41 female). We lived and dated together for about 4 years. We remained in contact after a period of not talking and i visited her last year for old times sake. I had the same strong feelings and felt my lonliness an sadness lift for the first time in a while. Suffered some major losses in last few years including both parents, but i had issues before that.

I moved back to her country and we started a business together to support my visa. She did this to help me and even let me stay at her place until i got everything settled. Its been 6 months *the visa is taking long time* but we have had a lot of fun and i finally feel i can function and focus knowing I am with her again. The problem is my old habits of not doing my own thing, afraid to be apart, etc...and her type being a loner, its stressing her out. She has moods where she says she wants me to move out and we are not BF and GF anymore ( I assumed we were since acting like it.). The sex has stopped and as i feel her getting more irritable, i get more scared. She mentioned when i get my visa i have to go. She said this in a bad mood, so i dont know if she means it since days later she seems OK again.

I want to give her space and do things alone and let her have alone time (i have been with her almost every second she is not working for the last 6 months, but i dont get tired of it, she is). I dont have job right now, no friends, no family..she is my whole world..the idea of moving out is scary since then i dont know when can see her and at the mercy of when she replies. I dont want to go back to that feeling of uncertainty. I know if i live wiht her will see her at the end of the day. its suffocating for her i guess. My fear is so strong, i can see its selfish but i cant seem to override it. I know her image of me is formed and no matter what i do she will see me as weak and dependent, but I want to at least give her space and see if can salage things. She says we are not in relationship, but i thought we were. Shocked, scared and needing some help. I want her to change her mind and if i can give her space, maybe she will..i dont know.

I guess i took our relative peace of living together as a sign we were back. We took trips and she seemed to act as my GF. she also said moving out has nothing to do with me, she just likes to live alone, so even i change im not sure will have effect, but i want to try. She never did live with anyone after we broke up and she is a loner so i dont doubt it. I just wish she could change her mind and dont want to go back to being obsessive and distraught when just visited her (before moving in again).

one thing to mention, I am not working since my career kind of fell apart and can't work legally anyway until get a visa. I also don't know what I will do for steady work, so lots of time to think and think and worry while waiting every day for her to finish her busy job. That isn't helping, for sure. I feel like a useless person and no wonder she isn't attracted anymore. I have no strong direction or career going anymore. I wish I had something passionate about to focus on, but I don't feel interested in anything anymore, just being around her.

I realize that I have made her a savior, a God. If she is in a good mood and approves of me, I feel like a million dollars, happiest guy in the world. When bad mood or annoyed with me, I experience extreme anxiety and then resort to things to manipulate her mood like offering to go on trips (when money is tight and i dont have it), taking out to eat (same thing), massaging her, small talk...etc.

I wish I could know that if I gave her massive space until I am having to move out (cant get apt until get visa), she may change her mind. The most challenging thing is the feeling I CAN"T GET MY WAY no matter how bad I want it. Sounds so childish, but I really deep down feel that I should get my way and not have to feel pain. It's crazy but I think I may believe that. I seem to not be able to deal with that gracefully. I somehow believe I really can control her, although intellectually i know I can't. It's odd.

I know in reality there is no one person who can make you happy and even then, another person can not make you happy. Why do i FEEL it so much though? Why do I feel i must have HER or I dont want anyone else and my life is over? Because I lost most of my family and feel like she is the only one living who knows me? I feel like without her, I have no identity. If we are separated, I will wonder where is and what doing, when can i see her..etc. minutes seem like hours, hours seem like days when waiting for replies (before i moved in).

Why do I assign her the role of my mother who has to be my everything and love me unconditionally? Its too much for anyone to bear. All my reading shows that needy/clingy guys kill attraction and get left. Its not love. That's why she says 'I see you as a kid/my son'. She does not respect me because she knows all she has to do is get mad and I will do anything. She has all the power, and that makes me so depressed and anxious. I just want to be free of this and I am starting to feel if she kicks me out, I will go back to being obsessive basket case with little support and my life is over. Im just starting to feel better again. . So I hang on to her for dear life.

Any advice or help is great, please be kind though I really need support and have no one. Thank you so much
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Re: terrified to leave, can I turn this around?

Postby Henry Flowers » Tue Aug 04, 2015 8:28 am

Wow - sounds tough. You're in a very difficult situation.

From my outside perspective, I think the first thing you need to do is find a way to be less isolated. That will be hard, probably, since (it sounds like) you're in a depression, but I think you have to reallly push yourself to find other people to spend time with. That can be hard at our age (I'm 47, too), but it will be worth it. Not just one other person, but several.

From what you describe, you are definitely killing any chance at a relationship, and maybe even friendship.

Ideas for finding other people: volunteering, shared hobbies, meetup groups, church/temple/other religious groups. There may also be a support group you can join in your community.

I'm a social person, but I also need lots of alone time. I think if I were in her position, I'd very soon start to see you as a burden, and I'd also feel weighed down by the responsibility of taking care of you. It sounds like you realize that, and want to change that, so that's great. My thought is, you're probably better off if you think about doing it for your own mental health-- not to save the relationship, but to have a better, happier, life in general. Saving the relationship might end up being a side benefit.

I don't know what the deal is with your visa situation... from what you describe, it sounds like you two are stuck with each other until that comes through. That's going to make it hard. It probably also adds to her feeling that she's trapped with you.

Do you have the option of seeing a counselor/therapist, or even a psychiatrist? If you're suffering from depression, some medication might be helpful... I'm on medication, and I'm pretty sure I couldn't function without it (although it's been years since I went through life without a prescription for one antibiotic or another).

I remember going through a phase like you describe with my wife. We had lots of conflict, and she was always on the verge of leaving. We even separated for a few months, and I lived in an apartment a few miles away. We worked it out, though, and we're still together, 15+ years after our separation.

Hope this helps. Hang in there!

HF
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Re: terrified to leave, can I turn this around?

Postby polyhigh » Tue Aug 04, 2015 1:48 pm

THank you so much for your reply, its really helpful.

Henry Flowers wrote:I think you have to reallly push yourself to find other people to spend time with


Yes, i know have to do this. For some reason i am hesitant to meet people i know here since its not as much fun as when with her. Its like i dont want to miss a second of being with her, but i know i have to force myself to do this so i can feel better and also give her a break. She has told me many times we dont have to do everything together and we have to remain individuals.

I will look into those options for meeting people you suggested..thank you.

Henry Flowers wrote:My thought is, you're probably better off if you think about doing it for your own mental health-- not to save the relationship, but to have a better, happier, life in general. Saving the relationship might end up being a side benefit.


I think you are right, to see it as something i need to do to get better first and foremost.

Im now hoping visa takes as long as possible since then wont have to face the fear if she says ;now you got it, so find a place'. I know thats not fair, but what I am feeling.

As for therapy/meds, i did try a few different SSRI and also anxiety meds. I could not sleep for 3 months (only 2 hours a night) worrying bout her (if she would help me or not) before moving here. The meds didnt really help much and in general although i know they help many, i felt unless emergency I would lke to try with just therapy. I am looking into therpists now and for other support, boards like this one.

THat inspiring to hear about your wife and the resolution. IN her case, i know for fact she would never marry me and said point blank we are not in relationship. She doesnt want that. Just more like I am family to her, but she is free spirit and never wants to feel obliged or tied down. She loves being on her own and single. She is classic avoider and I am anxious-attachment type.

it did help, thank you and i'll let you know how i make out with suggestions..any other ideas keep them coming! Thanks
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Re: terrified to leave, can I turn this around?

Postby polyhigh » Wed Aug 05, 2015 5:37 am

Really stuggling today, the feeling that this may be coming is making me feel sick and I can't stop thinking about it. If anyone has and ideas or support I'm grateful. Thanks....
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Re: terrified to leave, can I turn this around?

Postby Henry Flowers » Wed Aug 05, 2015 7:36 pm

Hi again, Polyhigh.

When I start obsessing about something, I always find it helpful to distract myself. I can go to a movie, or get really absorbed in a good book (not Proust, but something shallow, with a plot that will keep me turning pages).

When you have more friends, you can hang out with them, and talk about stuff that doesn't relate to her.

An absorbing hobby, volunteer work, etc. would also help with this problem, not just with meeting people.

What country/city are you in?

HF
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Re: terrified to leave, can I turn this around?

Postby polyhigh » Thu Aug 06, 2015 5:48 am

HI,

Thanks again for your ideas, I appreciate it. When I am in that fear state, it's really hard to distract since it feels like life or death that I control/solve the situation. I have trouble focusing on anything else, that;s why so concerned about this.

I will try to find more things to throw myself into, nonetheless. I am in Tokyo. I do have 'friends' ( i dont really think i cant count on them in tough spot), so spending time away from her to be with them doesnt seem appealing since i feel i have more fun with her. But i know I cant keep spending all my time with her.

Im getting concerned since i tell myself 'today i will go to the cafe all day and let her have day to herself, but i end up just staying at home and hanging out since she is in OK mood.

That's the most vexing part. We will go for days where even we ar together most of day, she is fine and we laugh, joke around..etc. Even mention about plans that involve future. Then suddenly when she is tried or stressed, mood will change and will become very cold and saying she wants to be alone or take a trip alone. I get nervous, she sees this, gets more annoyed..etc, etc. She isnt consistent so I never know where I stand.
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Re: terrified to leave, can I turn this around?

Postby polyhigh » Thu Aug 06, 2015 6:30 am

Other tough thing is I have started a business with her in order to support my visa here, so I cant just leave or break contact even if that were best. Ive invested a lot of money in this and also am/was excited to be doing this together with her, its just her moods and plans change so much, i never know what is coming next.
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Re: terrified to leave, can I turn this around?

Postby polyhigh » Thu Aug 06, 2015 6:56 am

Just to add (cant see how to edit replies), I have been avoiding a maladaptive way of coping with her rejections and stress in general, which is to try to find another woman secretly for physical fun/attention and validation. That is how i coped in the past, but i know its just covering the issue.
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Re: terrified to leave, can I turn this around?

Postby Seangel » Thu Aug 06, 2015 11:29 am

Hi Polyhigh,

What you mentioned sounds familiar to some things I have felt, and to things I have read in other sites.

I had a relationship in the past in which I felt that every minute with him was so much better than any minute with anyone else. I had friends too, university, work, family, but still felt that way. (Or at least thought it felt that way.) I thought I was madly in love. He reciprocated.

We broke up because I wanted us to live together, he didn't.

After many years, and having other relationships. I realized that I was codependent. That felt awful, specially since I felt like a strong and independent woman. So, I've researched more on the topic and got to know myself better.

I have found out that there are some traits I have that I don't like, some have been validated and approved by a sexist society, and some come from childhood issues.

What I try to say is that, from what I've read, your abandonment issues, your need of her, come from early childhood issues in which you felt this way with your parents, and now you are projecting them into your partner.

You seem like you want to please her, in order to have peace on mind. Maybe this was the case when you were a child. Because when you tried to separate your feelings from your mother's you were made feel guilty about it.

Maybe you stay in this turbulent relationship with her because it reminds you of a similar situation from childhood and it feels familiar and thus "safe". Even if it's not.

Her avoidant, and engulfment fears she has might come from a similar place for her. And you two seem to be having a dance in which each one plays their part.

I run into an article and a site here that gave me a lot of answers:

Do you need to be loved or love to be needed?

Though, I don't agree with everything the author says, she has some interesting points and explanations.

I believe, that you could benefit from some inner work. Heal, from what ever hurt from the past, so you don't re-enact the same situation with present partners.

You don't need to live in fear, or in anguish with your partner. You don't need to be afraid of her mood changes; of wanting you one day, and rejecting you the other.

I suggest you reading and using your free time, and even the times she's home, to read about it there and in other sites; and find explanations and exercises for you to do.

This is exciting. It's your own journey, your inner healing to never feel this way with anyone.

If she has draw the line at you guys only being friends, accept it. Respect it. And make her respect it too. Define your boundaries. Look for other things outside that fulfill you. And work inside on your self. It's going to be a precious gain.

Sea

-- Thu Aug 06, 2015 6:33 am --

polyhigh wrote: The sex has stopped and as i feel her getting more irritable, i get more scared.


I believe you are unconsciously remembering childhood memories.

polyhigh wrote:She mentioned when i get my visa i have to go. She said this in a bad mood, so i dont know if she means it since days later she seems OK again.


Believe her. Take her word on it. Adult healthy people say what they mean. So treat her that way, and take her on her word, and keep yours.

polyhigh wrote:I want to give her space and do things alone and let her have alone time (i have been with her almost every second she is not working for the last 6 months, but i dont get tired of it, she is). I dont have job right now, no friends, no family..she is my whole world..the idea of moving out is scary since then i dont know when can see her and at the mercy of when she replies. I dont want to go back to that feeling of uncertainty.


Of course. It does make sense. I believe that once we work on ourselves, and once we feel whole, and complete, that feeling of uncertainty.... vanishes. You won't be at her mercy, but at yours. And you will always be there to answer to yourself at any time.


polyhigh wrote:I know if i live wiht her will see her at the end of the day. its suffocating for her i guess. My fear is so strong, i can see its selfish but i cant seem to override it. I know her image of me is formed and no matter what i do she will see me as weak and dependent, but I want to at least give her space and see if can salage things. She says we are not in relationship, but i thought we were. Shocked, scared and needing some help. I want her to change her mind and if i can give her space, maybe she will..i dont know.


Maybe she will, but would you want it by then? To keep this constant coming and going?

polyhigh wrote:I guess i took our relative peace of living together as a sign we were back. We took trips and she seemed to act as my GF. she also said moving out has nothing to do with me, she just likes to live alone, so even i change im not sure will have effect, but i want to try. She never did live with anyone after we broke up and she is a loner so i dont doubt it. I just wish she could change her mind and dont want to go back to being obsessive and distraught when just visited her (before moving in again).


You want her to change, but that you cannot. You can, however, change yourself. And that's powerful.

polyhigh wrote:one thing to mention, I am not working since my career kind of fell apart and can't work legally anyway until get a visa. I also don't know what I will do for steady work, so lots of time to think and think and worry while waiting every day for her to finish her busy job. That isn't helping, for sure. I feel like a useless person and no wonder she isn't attracted anymore. I have no strong direction or career going anymore. I wish I had something passionate about to focus on, but I don't feel interested in anything anymore, just being around her.


Then make your healing your passion. I feel she's filing and inside void, and of course you want that. However, you can have the power to fill it yourself. And to be with her when you both want to. Not because you need to be with her to be happy, or because she has to be with you; but because you both want it.

polyhigh wrote:I realize that I have made her a savior, a God. If she is in a good mood and approves of me, I feel like a million dollars, happiest guy in the world. When bad mood or annoyed with me, I experience extreme anxiety and then resort to things to manipulate her mood like offering to go on trips (when money is tight and i dont have it), taking out to eat (same thing), massaging her, small talk...etc.


You feel responsible for her moods, because when she feels right you feel right; accepted, not rejected. Work on yourself, on healing what ever caused you this. If your happiness depends on her moods, of course you would do anything possible, and even not possible for her to be happy. But when your happiness doesn't depend on her, you will let her resolve her issues, and you will continue your life, or accompany her trip, but not suffering while it happens.

polyhigh wrote:I wish I could know that if I gave her massive space until I am having to move out (cant get apt until get visa), she may change her mind. The most challenging thing is the feeling I CAN"T GET MY WAY no matter how bad I want it. Sounds so childish, but I really deep down feel that I should get my way and not have to feel pain. It's crazy but I think I may believe that. I seem to not be able to deal with that gracefully. I somehow believe I really can control her, although intellectually i know I can't. It's odd.


I don't think it's crazy. If that's what helped in the past to not feel pain, of course you would want to get your way. Maybe you think you only can feel happy by her being accepting of yours, but that's not the only way.

polyhigh wrote:I know in reality there is no one person who can make you happy and even then, another person can not make you happy. Why do i FEEL it so much though? Why do I feel i must have HER or I dont want anyone else and my life is over? Because I lost most of my family and feel like she is the only one living who knows me? I feel like without her, I have no identity. If we are separated, I will wonder where is and what doing, when can i see her..etc. minutes seem like hours, hours seem like days when waiting for replies (before i moved in).


Could you have projected what or how your mother made you feel onto her? Maybe when you tried as a child to separate from your mother or father and have your own identity, either of your parents made you feel guilty about it. So you had to agree with them not to feel rejected and feel worthy of their love. That for sure is not healthy, but sometimes parent's do it.

polyhigh wrote:Why do I assign her the role of my mother who has to be my everything and love me unconditionally? Its too much for anyone to bear. All my reading shows that needy/clingy guys kill attraction and get left. Its not love. That's why she says 'I see you as a kid/my son'. She does not respect me because she knows all she has to do is get mad and I will do anything. She has all the power, and that makes me so depressed and anxious. I just want to be free of this and I am starting to feel if she kicks me out, I will go back to being obsessive basket case with little support and my life is over. Im just starting to feel better again. . So I hang on to her for dear life.


Of course. Work on yourself. Heal whatever cause you to feel this way. And you will not hand her the power. Regain it, claim it back. It's yours.

Wish you the best.

Sea
Taking myself some time away from PF. Sea (Dec, 2016)
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Re: terrified to leave, can I turn this around?

Postby polyhigh » Sun Aug 09, 2015 5:17 am

thank you Sea, I really appreciate your thoughts. i will try to apply some of your ideas.

Yesterday I had intention to give her a whole day to herself, but as she didnt seem in bad mood, i kept rationalizing it was OK to stay with her. Ended up spending whole day together and could feel her being a bit frustrated at end of day since was her only day off. I think she just wanted to lay around and be in her thoughts. she even mentioned "why not go to the cafe yourself?" a clear message to do my own thing and give her some space. i said i would but didn't. Ended up doing chores (i offered she didnt ask) and giving her like 4 backrubs. I felt worse even though spent whole day with her since i could feel she wanted her time and i had things to do but avoided doing them.

i feel if i leave her or go to my own thing, she will start to plan to leave (she sometimes mentions quiting her job and leaving the country) so my thinking is if i am always with her, she wont be able to have time to think about that. Other times she talks about getting me a new bed or some other event that would last longer then when my visa is approved. She only mentions the move out thing when in bad mood. Im tired of being in fear all day,every day. I need to get a handle on this quickly or this short window i have to change behavior (and perhaps her mind) will be blown. I fear if move out I might get even more obsessed which will bring more distress. Im so sick of feeling fear everyday, sun up to sun down. getting more depressed and concerned.
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