uncertainty, please advise

I broke up with my ex about 4 months ago, we were together for almost 3 years and living together for 2 years.
We broke up not because we wanted to, it was more to take a break in order to reflect certain aspects of our relationship, and understanding what were our problems and how can they be resolved.

We love each other immensely, there is no doubt about that. and what drove us toward that break up was the fact that at a certain point we realized that we were not happy in the relationship, with her feeling neglected and me feeling frustrated.
We broke up on good terms, and we still lived together for a month after the breakup until i found a new apartment. during that month we started talking, and really communicating on our problems like never before.

Finally when i got out of the house i realized that i have made a huge mistake. and i wanted to get back with her. we continued seeing each other calmly, for lunch for dinner, peacefully talking and enjoying each others company like never before. and i told her what i thought, and i told her that i started working on my problems (dealing with loss in my family) that had blocked me from being completely in the relationship with her. and that i am willing to do anything to make it work.

From that point the situation went back and forth from being very close and optimistic about the future, and her saying that there is no future for us and that she suffered for too long, and that it's hard for her to believe that the change in me (which is noticeable) will last..
It went on like this for a 3 months now, becoming more and more extreme, meaning i pass the nights and weekends with her, and then all of a sudden she changes completely and becomes very distant, then she calms down, and so forth..

For the moment she told me that she can't see me anymore because it makes her just feels bad, in response i wrote to her that she shouldn't feel sorry for what she is writing and that she should feel free to take all the time that she needs to cure her self, other than that i wrote that i love her and that my response for all her questions and requests is yes, and i also said, take as long as you need, i am here waiting, if you want, call, if you want we will meet, you decide.

She thanked me for the letter, she talks to me every other day, in a very carful manner, trying not to say really anything, but still wanting to talk.
I have omitted a lot of details, some of them are probably important but there is no need to write so much.

Everyone tells me it's all a matter of time, and probably things will work out for the best. as for me, as the days go by i become less optimistic, because hearing her this cold and distant really kills me, and i am afraid that this time apart will only drive her away, making her concentrate on all the negative aspects. but still with a lot of hope that she will have the courage to give us another try, which for me is a definite one, meaning marriage, kids, and all the rest, she is well aware of that, and we did talk about these things before and after the breakup.

Now i am just trying to understand what to do. i can't really concentrate about anything else in my life, and in my line of work you need to have a clear mind in order to perform adequately, so i took some time off, also from her. i went abroad for 2 weeks now (still exchanging emails with her) but i have to get back soon, and this issue is yet to be resolved and not really going in any direction, and i still don't feel as if i could function properly when i'll get back.
Thats about it…

I was once in a relationship with someone I thought I loved. The whole time I was with that person my concerns were focused on making the relationship work in spite of many many factors that, at the time, did not seem like factors at all but only minor inconveniences. What I'm saying is that there were actually many lines this girl crossed with me and when she transgressed those lines I should have pulled the plug but I did not because we were "in love".

I mention this example because, looking back on the relationship, I now recognize that these things I thought of as only inconveniences were actually things I should have paid attention to. My subconscious knew more about my relationship than my waking mind and, based on what you've written it seems like you should give yourself some more credit. Re-read your own post. Notice what you say about her. Notice what you say about yourself. Frankly, it seems to me like you already know the answer to your questions. Based on what you've written you've certainly put some thought into the state of things and now you're just trying to figure out where to go from this point.

The good news is that you already know what you want out of a relationship with her and you love her enough to try and make that happen. The bad news is that, despite knowing what you want, she is unable to be in a relationship with you which suggests that she does not want what you want. Think about it, if she wanted what you wanted you would both be together right now.

You're in a state of uncertainty right now and so is she and this state will go on until you're either in the relationship you both want or separated. If I was in your position I would define my own limits. How long are you willing to remain in this state with her? At what point will you cut her loose? What can you concede to her? What might she concede to you? At what point does getting out of a state of uncertainty become more desirable than the possibility of things working out? Clearly you love her but at the end of the day you know what you want and can only exist at this level with her for so long.

Best of luck.

cablebird wrote:Frankly, it seems to me like you already know the answer to your questions. Based on what you've written you've certainly put some thought into the state of things and now you're just trying to figure out where to go from this point.

Dear cablebird,
First of all, thank you for your reply, i can see from your response that you have really understood the situation at hand.
It is true that i have already answered all of my questions. My decision, after carefully re-evaluating the relationship and the situation, was very clear and was made with a lucid mind, i have decided to go all the way with this relationship, wherever it may take me.

The truth of the matter is, as you also stated, if we both wanted the same thing we would have already been together working on our problems. And it is quite obvious at the moment that she is not interested in doing so. Yet as i wrote, she is not definite about it, meaning it seems to me that she is still very conflicted about whether or not it is the right decision, she even told me that she would love to get back together but she is so afraid of going back to the same point and she is not sure if she will ever be able to get pass that.

And she still contacts me (not that i am complaining, but i think that if she was not interested she would not initiate any contact).
The way she is acting at the moment makes me feel as if it were up to me to do something, or act in a certain way, to make her see that it is worth taking that leap.

I know that i should set my limits, but i am afraid. I don't want to respond in haste, and i don't want to do anything that will worsen the situation pushing her further away from me. I mean, as i wrote before, i feel as if this is a time in which she needs to see that i am here to stay.

Dear mrjames,

thank you for sharing this story. I really enjoyed reading it. I miss the traditional boy -meets- girl love stories.

I understand that you are somewhat anxious to continue on with your life and your life with her, but please don’t rush it with the ultimatums. They can only spoil the beauty of rediscovering each other.

You know your relationship history and if you, as you said, are really determined to give it another try please be patient. As you mentioned, you are enjoying each other’s company – calmly and friendly having lunches and dinners together and spending weekends at each other’s. Isn’t that beautiful?

Strong friendship is the most important, crucial part of every successful relationship and what you are doing now is exactly that..building a stronger foundation with hopes that this time you and her will be able to overcome any issues that life may bring. I am not suggesting that this arrangement goes on for years, of course...but things do resolve naturally, even better than when we try to push them into a certain direction...

You know...a long time ago I deeply loved a man. We were young, youthful and smart. But we were also naive (in a different way, though) and immature. Back then he was more successful whereas many things were completely new to me and, although he had feelings for me, I believe he saw me more of an inconvenience than a partner and the easiest thing was to push me away. Although initially that was a hard pill to swallow over the years it actually helped me to achieve probably more that I would have. For that I am thankful to him.

What hurts me to this day is not our relationship breakup. What hurts me is that we did not have those calm, mature lunches and dinners...calmly enjoying each other’s company....being friends...things that you do have with your girlfriend.

I fantasized so many times about us laughing, teasing each other, discussing politics and social issues or having some very private and emotional talks, not necessarily about us. I so wanted us to be great friends, to discuss our families, values, and plans. I was hurt not by what he said or did, but by what he didn’t say or do..as a man and friend and not as my ex boyfriend or lover.

I hope you understand now why I think you should value your time together. You will do what you feel is right and I believe that you heart will give you the right answer.

Best of luck!

santorini wrote:I understand that you are somewhat anxious to continue on with your life and your life with her, but please don’t rush it with the ultimatums. They can only spoil the beauty of rediscovering each other.

Dear Santorini,
First of all thank you... i needed to read this, sometimes all you need is just a little push to get you through the day, so again for that i thank you.

Actually i just heard from her on skype a while i was reading your post. we haven't seen each other on video for more then a week now (face to face for almost 3 weeks). For me it was breathtaking, i miss her so much it really hurts... and we were talking and smiling, she told me that she misses me aswell.
We had a really nice conversation.

I am probably going back home in a few days for new year's eve, i asked if she had anything planned, she told me no. So i asked her if she would like to pass the evening with me seeing that i will probably come back in the morning, she was very doubtful about responding.
I told her, as i wrote about a week ago, "i want to see you always, but i am not going to push you, if you want i'll be there, you decide..."
The conversation continued for a little bit after that, and then ended... with a bitter sweet tone. Or maybe i am just imagining things...

I know i will see her when i come back, maybe not for new year, but a the day after... i am a bit nervous about it. I just want it to keep moving forward, and not back and forth... i don't want to give her an ultimatum now, because i can see that she needs the time and there is really no use stressing her at the moment. But i also want to enjoy my time with her, and i don't want to stress myself on what should i say and how should i act.

When i allowed myself to feel free when i was with her (after the breakup), even though she enjoyed it, it seemed excessive for her, and she pulled away. So i am trying to be more careful about it, but very anxious about my actions.

Look at me, rambling on like this... the thing is, i know what to do, and i really don't intend to rush anything... it's the day o day that is hard, and this uncertainty of what will come...
A lot of people are telling me just to cut it, and not to contact her, and wait... it just doesn't feel right. it seems to me like the easier way of dealing with it, meaning eliminating it from your life so one can move on.
But neither one of us can do that, it's much more stronger than us.. and we both chose to suffer in this period rather than losing contact... weird... i just hope that we would not suffer for long, seeing that the solution is fairly simple.

and she pulled away

Hi mrjames,

why do you think she pulled away? It seems to me that this is something she's been doing since you've started seeing each other again and, naturally, it is bothering you.

In your thread you wrote that you broke up because she felt neglected and your felt frustrated and that you were not completely in the relationship..

Would you like to chat more about that? I would be happy to hear how you see your past relationship with her, not just what is currently happening. I am asking this because it appears that, although you love each other very much, there is something that is blocking the natural flow of your emotions.

santorini wrote:why do you think she pulled away?...
I would be happy to hear how you see your past relationship with her...

Dear Santorini,
It's true that her pulling away is a recurrent motif since we broke up. The thing that bothers me isn't the fact that she is pulling away, it's the fact that she doesn't want to be distant.. but she is really forcing herself as a defense mechanism. And when she tells me that we should see each other she I know that she is not talking from the heart, but pure logic...
But it is her heart that brings her back to me every time.. after all, as i said, we tried to distant ourselves from one another, but we can't... because the ruth is that neither of us wants it.

As far as our past relationship goes, first of all it's worth mentioning that she is 9 years older than me.
For us the age difference was never a problem. she had her doubts before we started dating, but she saw immediately that i had only serious intentions, and she moved passed that.
For the first year of our relationship we were inlove in way that can't really be described in words. after 2 months since we met we rented an apartment together... and we were happy.

As for me, although the first year together was beautiful, it was obvious that she was more "in to" the relationship than me. I didn't allow myself to be present as much as i wanted because i was burnt so many times in my life and i was afraid... i also was feeling pressured by my career and had to dedicate a lot of time on that.
One thing was always certain, i loved her and she loved me, immensely! and there was no doubt for us that every thought of a future includes the other.

For us, there was no support from anyone, our families didn't like the fact we were seeing each other, because of the age difference, religious differences, and the fact that we are from different countries. Her family didn't what to meet me. we met after a year and a half finally, they liked me as a person. but still were not shy about saying that they didn't like the relationship.
It didn't matter for us really, we were sure about our feelings, and knew that together we can overcome this.

The problems started after a year living together, she started a new job, and started working more hours, and coming home exhausted. as for me, was working as usual, all day, and also when i got home i had a lot to do... and so we started spending a bit less time with each other at home.
During that period i saw that she was feeling down, and i asked her to talk to me, she said it's nothing and didn't want to talk about it. I knew that she was feeling bad, and probably because of me, so i asked her what can i do to make her feel better? what's wrong? and she didn't answer, and i grew frustrated.
Every now and then she wrote me small letters saying that i am distant, and that she needs to know that i still love her... i always replied "I love you more than life itself"... and i ment it, and it assured her. But unfortunately it wasn't enough..

The surroundings eventually have their effect, and i started having doubts if i can make her happy, if i can give her all the things that she wants. i was afraid of ruining her life, and her resenting me for it, because we didn't have much time if we want to start a family, and i was not in a place in which i could have let myself do that (career wise).
Eventually my fears became greater, and i became more distant, she on the other hand, was not much for talking about her problems but preferred dealing with the situation in a passive way.

One day i woke up and i told her, that it is quite obvious that neither of us is happy at the moment. and that something needs to be done, we can't stay like this.
We didn't know what to do, i suggested of going to a friend of mine for a few days, she decided it would be better if she went o her friend... she went for a long weekend. It was not enough time to think about anything unfortunately. she came back, we talked about it a little bit without concluding anything, went to sleep, and went on with our lives.
After a few months we found ourselves at the same spot, and i thought to my self, that in order to reflect on things in a serious way, maybe a real distance is necessary.. so we broke up.
And like i said, i didn't want to, and neither did she...

As for me now, i worked a lot on my problems, which were the priority i gave my job, and maybe more important my fears about being in a relationship as well as my fears of being alone.
My goal was to better myself as much as i can in order to make my life work, hoping that the relationship will follow.

And i made some major changes... like i said, very noticeable... and maybe they do seem excessive, but they are sincere, and they are positive, she knows that... she feels it.
But mostly afraid that it won't last, and angry about the fact that it took me so long to get to this point...
The way i see, i would have never gotten to this point if it weren't for that breakup that made me realize what was really important in life, and what i was about to lose if things did not change.
And now i find myself wanting to live her completely, wanting to take this next step and really with no doubts in my heart... because, for me (and for her) a love like this comes once in a lifetime... and although we could probably love other people, it will never be as strong as what we have (she also told me that in these words, it's not just me).

Any idea on what is blocking the natural flow?

Hi mrjames,

Thank you for your in-depth response. I think you are analyzing your situation well and maybe you just need to connect the dots with some added details/situations from your past that you did not mention here. I will try to show you how I see what’s going on. Please remember that I don’t know you and I can only “work” with the limited info I have here. Therefore, I will please ask you to take everything I will write with a grain of salt and not as something that holds true.

Firstly, I am very happy that the word love is a light motif of your posts, because almost identical scenarios can happen when love has left the building, just like Elvis It is apparent that you two love each other very much and, although it is sad that some important lessons are learned only after we face an emotionally traumatic event, as long as they serve to move us to a better place – they are worth it, aren’t they?

I think that your age difference in this situation is important and played a role in what’s currently happening. Although you said that it was only her who had doubts in the beginning of the relationship I believe that you both had them. She is older than you and most likely wanted to start a family, especially given how much you love each other. Whether she formally said it or not is irrelevant. You, on the other hand, were career focused and, from your perspective, did not have to rush into having kids and starting a formal family life. You were enjoying your time together, building your career with all the time on hands.

In my opinion her distancing and small letters to you were her attempts to work on her raising issues of you a couple, motherhood vs. age, older woman in a relationship with a younger man, longevity of such relationships. From your post I understand that there were some cultural differences, too. I have no doubts that your intentions were and remain honest, but don’t forget that they need to be perceived as such . When someone is uncertain whether they walk on solid ground – as I believe she was and still is - they will see threat in many small things that you may not even notice. This is in fact true for almost all people, even individuals with high level of self confidence when they truly love someone. Your doubting yourself on being in a relationship or having to somewhat sacrifice your career in order to make her truly happy, only increased her fears. I believe that theme still lingers around and I think you know it. I bet you understand, and in fact you did mention that she fears things have only changed on surface and will get back to exactly where you left them when you broke up.

The solution to this may or may not be simple. After reading your last post I am even more convinced that you should hold off on ultimatums because it will only “prove” to her that your intentions were not indeed serious and that she was correct in pulling away. You need to talk. A lot. Not necessarily about your relationship only. You need to allow yourselves to completely open up to each other. To share how you *feel* about many things that may not appear related to your relationship. You, as someone who is initiating all this, need to be careful and really listen to what she wants. Having said that, she also needs to let go of her fears if she ever wants to be happy with you. The truth is that if her insecurities are too rigidly embedded, or if something you said or did hurt her beyond reparation, this may never have a happy ending. As the saying goes: “We see things as we are, not as they are”.

What she wants is stability, commitment and love. You have to think carefully if you can give it to her. Even you can she will need to believe you. It is not up to you to fly over the moon to prove it to her because that's not healthy. Happiness is a shared responsibility and there’s only so much that we can do to convince someone that we are serious. If your intentions are honest and dignified and if you had a serious talk with yourself about your future together than you did everything you could and the failed attempt to rebuild your future will be something she’ll have to carry as her baggage, not you. This is the only boundary that I see productive.

What do you think? As someone who has lived that relationship what can you add, change, correct me on to make this situation as close to understanding as possible..? Please tell me if I am missing something. Sure I am! I don't know you and you don’t have to be “politically correct” with me even you or her did some less than noble things to each other.... You have all the answers and it's just a matter of calmly putting things in the right compartments.

Dear santorini,
Thank you so much for your replies.. thank you for this time dedicated and for really trying to understand the situation... it means a lot to me.

First of all i want to start by saying that the age difference, though is important, did not play a crucial role, really. I allow myself to say that because we both wanted the same things. I mean, she knew that my intentions were to start a family, and start it with her. And it was with that in mind that i became even more career driven, wanting a better future for us, and wanting us to have more possibilities.
I did not want to have kids at that moment because i didn't want to have a family i could not support financially. But i did want it, and i did want that formal family life. For me growing in a family that was not financially stable made me want to build a stable environment for my future family, and not rush into it if i can't "afford" it.

It is now very clear to me that my intentions were not always perceived as honest, and that my feelings did not always reach her. I felt it during the relationship from the way she was acting, but i understood it after we broke up and she finally told me what were all the little things that bothered her, things that i never even thought to be an issue. maybe it is the cultural difference, who knows?
The point being that there were a lot of small things in the day-to-day life that bothered her, all of which are easily resolvable, i was simply unaware of them.

We both had our fears about the future, with the major one being if we are not fooling ourselves thinking that it will work. when things got worse, i started thinking to myself that it could be so simple with someone else, not better, but simple.
That theme lingers on, i know it, because we lived it for 3 years, and the doubts and the fears remain. And i am not trying to erase it, i am trying to put the spotlight on it so we could move pass that. The thing that had changed is my approach, meaning the fact of WANTING to do whatever it takes to make it work because she worths it, and because i really enjoy my life when she is with me.

As for my approach for now, is not to talk about relationship, but really try to make her enjoy my presence. I want to pass beautiful innocent moments with her, and slowly rebuild the trust, and to show her in this manner that things have changed, and remind her how my presence in her life is a source of strength and happiness.
I think it is pointless talking about the relationship at the moment, we talked about it so much in this period that the discussions became very repetitive and frustrating. I try not to bring up the subject in our conversations, but really talk about ourselves, try to completely live these moments with her considering them little gifts from god.

I do hope that her insecurities are not too rigidly embedded. i find it hard to believe, mostly because if the situation was over from her point of view, she wouldn't have dragged me to this point. Because if there was and still is one thing that is very strong between us, it's our mutual respect for one another.

I am well aware of what she wants. And further more, i am well aware of my responsibility regarding her and regarding my choices. Meaning, for her taking this leap is a huge step and it takes a lot of trust, and if i were to misuse her trust and break it off without giving everything, that will kill her, and that is the last thing i want to do.
I agree that happiness is a shared responsibility. and i do believe that i can make her happy. If i didn't i wouldn't have bothered trying, it's just not ethical.

It is true that it was not all sunshine and rainbows, i mean every couple has low moments. The thing is, we fought only once in our relationship, it was about the fact that she was not happy with her life, her job, and her uncertain future (regardless of the relationship) she kept saying that she wished she would have chosen a different path. I tried to tell her that it is never too late, that i am behind her whatever she may choose, and that i know for a fact that she will do great. She just needed to take the first step... She told me that i was naive, i told her that she is acting defeated, but that her life isn't over. eventually i left the house and went for a walk for a few hours... When i came back i didn't want to talk, i didn't want anything.
It wasn't the fact that she didn't believe in herself, it was the fact that she didn't believe in me that drove me insane. eventually things calmed down, but her being defeated by life unfortunately did not change, not even today and it fills my heart with sadness when i think about it.

After all this time together and apart, i find that though filled with doubts wether it will work or not, i do have only one certainty, i love her. and i know what it feels like not feeling loved in a relationship and feeling alone while with someone (from my previous relationship), it's a terrible feeling... and she told me more than once that she had suffered so much because of me, because of my coldness, because of the distance.
Now she sees these changes, she feels these changes and it overwhelms her, and at this point she doesn't know what to believe in anymore.

When i write these posts i write the things that come in mind while reading your reply, but when i read my reply it seems to me that something is still missing... it's impossible to write everything so i will stop myself here.
Thank you again, from the bottom of my heart

The other day we met after 3 weeks apart (though exchanging emails..) it was obvious that she missed me, and it was obvious that i missed her. it us took 30 minuets just to say hello because we were absolutely captivated by one another.
After that, we talked a little bit and soon enough she went back to these discussions about how she suffered and how doubtful and afraid she is.

I told her 2 things. The first, all the changes that she sees are the product of years of work, and although they became evident after the breakup, that was not the cause for the changes, that just pushed me over the edge to take the leap and do the hard work I was avoiding for years. Meaning a "global" change, that has little to do with her. It is within these changes that I find myself wanting to live her.

The second, Like I told her from the beginning, I want to make her happy. And If I had a shred of doubt about being able to make her happy, i wouldn't have tried to get back together, moreover, i wouldn't have wanted to get back together if I had a shred of doubt about the fact that I know that it could work. After all I do love her, and the last thing that I want is to make her suffer... and if I had doubts regarding that, I would not try anything, even with all the love that i am feeling.. it's not right.

Other than that I told her that she is my woman, and whatever may happen, that thing is certain. There may be other women, as for her there may be other men. But nothing will be stronger, and nothing will change the fact that she is my woman and that i am her man. It will be a shame to throw it all away...

We passed the rest of the evening hugging, kissing, smiling... When I saw that she was calm and smiling I gave her a gift, I song i recorded for her (way back i used to be a professional musician, it has been years since I wrote a song, and this one came to me naturally during this time apart). She loved it, almost crying when she heard it, we passed the rest of the evening smiling, laughing...

When I left she wrote me a message thanking me for this time that was a gift for her, and for my eyes that are filled with a vitality that she had never seen before. She hopes that my heart is sincere and that it will help her heart understand better.

She is not the type of person that plays games, and usually when her mind is fixed on something, she is very cautious about changing it.
When we first met she didn't want to go out with me because she thought i was not serious, it took 3 months of persisting, of showing it to her, of passing time with her as a friend (although my intentions were very clear), of being there for her and eventually she when with her heart.
With that in mind, i keep telling myself, she needs this reassurance. She needs to see that things don't disappear.. that's real change.

I keep having these doubts whether or not this is the right approach... It feels right when we are together, but when we are apart my mind is running wild, and i don't know what to think anymore....