Seemingly Spontaneous

can pedophilc thoughts seeming start out of nowhere in someone who has been exclusively attracted to people in his own age group - at the age of 28? Doesn't pedophilia start in adolescence, or isn't the pedophile usually aware of his/her sexual inclinations before the age of 20? If pedophilia is seen as no different of a choice of sexuality as say homosexuality, then why is it also labeled a "disease"? and if it is considered a disease by researchers/scientists, why isn't this being cured, so that 1) no more harm is done to innocent children, and 2) can take the mental anguish away from the person who doesn't want to be in any shape or form pedophilic?
thanks.

Hi,

If I or anyone else was able to answer your questions accurately, then we'd be God. Why? - because the answers are simply not possible to know. I mean, I'm sure that these thoughts can indeed enter a person's mind at any age, and that they dont necessarily have to first develop in adolescence. If we knew the real answer though, then we'd know exactly how the brain works (which we don't as yet know). Further, paedophilia is seen as a 'disease' because society has not accepted it as something appropriate - i.e. the behaviour of a paedophile is inappropriate (or 'wrong') i society's eyes, but that's fine and we should'nt question it. Throughout history, society (i.e. the mass population) have dictated everything. Even when there's one rule such as a king/queen, his/he decisions would have been made according to what his/her people/society wanted. So, it's simply not right to question whether or not it should be viewed as a disease, because the simple fact is that it is inappropriate and wrong.

...however, maybe 'disease' is rather misleading as to how paedophilia actually is manifested in a person.

Kevin

Chucky wrote:Hi,

If I or anyone else was able to answer your questions accurately, then we'd be God. Why? - because the answers are simply not possible to know. I mean, I'm sure that these thoughts can indeed enter a person's mind at any age, and that they dont necessarily have to first develop in adolescence. If we knew the real answer though, then we'd know exactly how the brain works (which we don't as yet know). Further, paedophilia is seen as a 'disease' because society has not accepted it as something appropriate - i.e. the behaviour of a paedophile is inappropriate (or 'wrong') i society's eyes, but that's fine and we should'nt question it. Throughout history, society (i.e. the mass population) have dictated everything. Even when there's one rule such as a king/queen, his/he decisions would have been made according to what his/her people/society wanted. So, it's simply not right to question whether or not it should be viewed as a disease, because the simple fact is that it is inappropriate and wrong.

...however, maybe 'disease' is rather misleading as to how paedophilia actually is manifested in a person.

Kevin

if it's a "disease" - let's eradicate this sucker. again to reiterate: no more children being harmed. no more men being tortured by highly inappropriate/sexually deviant/possibly sadistic thoughts, that as you said, can develop and propagate out of nowhere. - I feel the reason that almost no money is being put into important research - for a condition that has not only been deemed a disease by larger society, but more importantly, scientists & researchers in the field of paraphilia! (where that opinion matters) - is because it's easier to cast the problem away by throwing these mentally ill people behind iron bars, and hoping for the best, than doing what's right and establishing psychological intervention plus pharmaceutical intervention, to clearly reduce recidivism rates (significantly, actually), or prevent any prospective harm (however little prospect) coming to children from men who have never acted (nor probably won't ever act) on sheer fantasy. Because clearly, not everyone who possesses deviant thoughts will ever act out on them - so the question is, why aren't these people coming forth, looking for a way to ease their mental anguish? because society salivating for justice, and is collectively ready to lop off heads (one, the other, or both) at the very admission of guilt thoughts. people don't choose to be afflicted with a mental disease - the schizophrenic doesn't. the person with OCD doesn't. the person with pedophilia doesn't. the person with pedophilia who chooses to HARM a child, is a criminal, and a bastard. and that person deserves to go to prison. but who knows if that person, however violent, would have acted, if proper intervention was applied. I understand that some of these people wouldn't take treatment even if it was available, but the person who can't help but think these sick thoughts (but would never act on them, and is probably tortured with shame and guilt), needs somewhere to go, for psychiatric treatment, without the fear of being ostracized by the people he cares about most.
I just don't understand our society. I in no way condone hurting a child - there's no argument there - but there must be so many men who so badly want to change these thoughts, become "normal", and just can't - absolutely can't. no possibility of that in the near or distant future. that seems so bleak. who in their right mind would want to be a pedophile? and if it can just spontaneously occur at a later age in men who have had exclusive attraction to people their age - well to me, that's an indication that there's more at play here than simple genetics. I have absolutely no background in science, but I'm just thinking that it could be a gene that lays dormant, and only starts when other stressful external factors are at play. who knows. but hopefully the next decade proves fruitful for this research, because the only real way to get rid of all of this is to medically eradicate it. simple. we scream "molester" at large, yet we create more opportunity than not for children to be harmed - because of social taboo! screw it: pedophilia exists, however evil you think it is, it exists. it will not go away, until enough properly funded research is conducted, and more effective medicines are available - and if it's no different than homosexuality, heterosexuality, can you really demonize the pedophile for thoughts alone? I think not. I just hope that research is accelerating in this field - I hope with all my heart.

Triadly-True wrote:can pedophilc thoughts seeming start out of nowhere in someone who has been exclusively attracted to people in his own age group - at the age of 28? Doesn't pedophilia start in adolescence, or isn't the pedophile usually aware of his/her sexual inclinations before the age of 20? If pedophilia is seen as no different of a choice of sexuality as say homosexuality, then why is it also labeled a "disease"? and if it is considered a disease by researchers/scientists, why isn't this being cured, so that 1) no more harm is done to innocent children, and 2) can take the mental anguish away from the person who doesn't want to be in any shape or form pedophilic?
thanks.

Some good questions and some good points. First of all, pedophilia CAN appear out of nowhere well into adulthood - I'm no expert, but I think it can occur either by "regression" caused by some kind of severe stress (probably relationship-related), and I believe it can be (in rare cases) caused by brain damage and brain tumours. Pedophilia typically does start in adolescence. Pedophilia is not a choice of sexual preference, any more than homosexuality or heterosexuality is a choice. Why is labeled a "disease"? Well, pedophilia is considered "perverse" because of the arbitrary social values we hold today - things might have been different in ancient Greece.

The sexual orientation of pedophilia is no more perverse than homosexuality - however, acting on pedophilic feelings is perverse and immoral, because of the terrible harm it does to children (some pedophiles may dispute that, but I strongly disagree). I suppose it is also labelled a "disease" because there is a "risk" because they may act on their feelings (but then, there is a risk (a far smaller risk, I concede) that a Muslim or a Christian could become radicalised, and blow themselves or an abortion clinic up). Another reason it may be considered a disease is because of what you said - the stress, self-hatred, depression and anxiety pedophilia causes in the person who suffers from it.

Why is there not more research into pedophilia? That is the best question of all. The amount of scientific and medical research on pedophilia is absolutely pitiful. I don't know why. Is it lack of interest from psychiatrists and psychologists, or is it lack of political will to fund this type of research? I suspect that paradoxically, the extreme fear, hatred and paranoia surrounding the subject makes it difficult to research, when in fact, there is a desperate need for more research into the causes, prevention and treatment of pedophilia. It is an absolute disgrace that there isn't more effort being put into prevention of sexual abuse of children. The way I see it, the current approach of "fighting pedophilia" is to identify offending pedophiles by letting them abuse children, then trying to catch them, causing a lot of damage to a lot of children in the process. The approach that should be taken is to prevent pedophiles from offending at all, to stop the hatred and hysteria and encourage pedophiles to come forward for help before they do hurt a child.

Triadly-True wrote:Because clearly, not everyone who possesses deviant thoughts will ever act out on them - so the question is, why aren't these people coming forth, looking for a way to ease their mental anguish? because society salivating for justice, and is collectively ready to lop off heads (one, the other, or both) at the very admission of guilt thoughts.

I agree this is a big problem. For years, as a teenager, these feelings tortured me, but I was absolutely terrified at what the reactions and consequences might by if I came forward for help. Eventually the distress my feelings caused me got to such a level that I couldn't take it anymore, and the distress outweighed the fear. But people shouldn't have to feel that fear and hatred - especially teenagers, the time at which pedophilia typically seems to develop. I can't possibly think of any "politically correct" way of actively encouraging teenagers to come forward for help if they're worried they're becoming a pedophile, but that is exactly what they need - encouragement, sympathy, and compassion. Not wild, rabid hatred and hysteria.

Hi again - and hi to you too onlysleep,

Firstly, I should thank you both for keeping this conversation 'intelligent' and not going overboard in what you're saying. This forum has a habit of becoming a bit of a tinderbox, as i'm sure you can both understand. Anyway, so far what you've talked about can easily be mirrored with arguments for/against people who commit crimes because they have paranoid schizophrenia, kleptomania, etc. The crime is acceptable - i.e. they did wrong - but there's a genuine reason behind why they committed the crime; and, to be honest, if society had procedures in place to help such people, then the crime would have been avoided. So, I can easily transcribe these situations to what we're ralking about here: Is a person guilty for simply being who they are?

I don't know what more to say. I think that paedophilia is entirely wrong, but I also think that society has an inappropriate/heightened hatred towards paedophiles. In a way, it reminds me of the hatred that the general population had towards blacks, and more recently towards homosexuals. Maybe in time people will accept paedophilia as something that is real and apparent, and instead of casting them to the dungeons, paedophiles should be offered help.

Kevin

I just personally think that the whole argument towards pedophilia being a true form of sexuality, like heterosexuality or homosexuality, simply doesn't always apply - because how come certain men can go 30 years without a single pedophilic thought, yet suddenly seemingly regress towards a sexual connection to children also (obviously not exclusively - unless someone can one day wake up, lose all attraction to the (acceptable) age group that he had been attracted to his whole life, and only feel attraction towards children) - it doesn't make any sense to me. Homosexuality isn't just sporadically developed at age 30 - and if it was to be, that person would be a true anomaly - I don't mean latent homosexuality, where the person was clearly always confused in the first place (however steadfast and well that person withheld or suppressed those feelings) - I mean for instance, a John Smith, who always loved and desired voluptuous women his age, wakes up at 30, and is a homosexual - seems unlikely with homosexuality, but that's a typical story with latent pedophilia, no? so I don't think that you can always apply the argument, "the person is no different than the homosexual, for he is born with pedophilia" - bull.

stressors are apparently the cause of latent pedophilia. So, again, it seems likely that someone might be born with a genetic predisposition, that normally wouldn't come to fruition, but due to harsh external circumstances, is manifested - and I also think that it's not just pure sexuality with latent pedophilia - I think that a form of OCD is involved too. Don't ask me exactly why, but the nature of it seems to reflect this. Also, so many people just simply hate being pedophilic, especially those of the latent variety - this is because they are so used to sexually loving women, not girls - they are disgusted by their intrusive thoughts and (possible) arousal. they would never approach or proposition a child if their life depended on it - does that sound like heterosexuality or homosexuality - and I'm not talking in terms of societal standards - I'm talking in knowing that it's inherently disgusting to fantasize about sexuality and children, but having no options to change your though-process!
again, there are those pedophiles who are clearly psychotic or sociopathic, therefore devoid of any guilt or shame involving these thoughts, and even deriving physical pleasure, with no associated guilt - but those are the same people who if exclusively heterosexual wouldn't care about raping a 30 year old, or murdering a lover, right?
there are those with impulse control issues - but those apply to gamblers, incessant masturbators, food addicts, etc., etc. - those people have options - but the pedophile? it's a real gamble, to want to go get legitimate psychiatric help - you have the fear of losing family (parents, even!), friends (best friends), etc. You have to walk into the same office as true, legit sex offenders, when the only thing you're guilty of is possessing thoughts - and even then, you fear that maybe the psychiatrist/health professional you're confiding in, might naturally assume that the catalyst for you even coming forward is that you actually harmed a child, when in actuality, the reason you're coming forward is because the thoughts alone are destroying your life!

if our society was more accepting that bad things in this world exist, but that these bad things aren't always inherently evil (the thoughts, not the actions of pedophilia - again I'm making a distinct, distinct DISTINCTION here) - I bet that we'd have so many more advances in pedophilia today - if the medicine-ball started rolling 20 years ago, I bet we'd know some of the main underlying causes - as it stands, the snails pace at which research is going for a mental disease that not only kills the sufferers mental health, but destroys the lives of kids all over the world, is an embarrassing and shocking reflection of how draconian and backwards this system still is. When will we grow up as a people, and fight for what's right? It took so long just to have homosexuality accepted into the mainstream (and even then, it's still marginalized and criticized) - difference between homosexuality and pedophilia - one is an orientation, the other is a straight up disease. Until the implications behind this reality are fully understood, many more lives are going to be crippled, the process of destruction is going to repeat itself, and the medical understanding is going to stay stagnant and lifeless - all because of foolish pride. Disgusting.

Society, wake from your eternal slumber. Please, for the love of God. Who in the hell wouldn't want to successfully treat a disease as horrible as pedophilia? Why is this so hard to understand?

I'm not sure what to say to all of that, Triadly-True, but I will just drift from thought to thought as it comes to me. You've made a lot of points and it's clear that you've devoted a lot of thought to this. When you talked about the lack of research going into this, you're clearly right (in that there's a lack of research) but I can easily understand why there is no research. It's because of what we've been saying already: paedophilia is such a 'reviled'/hated topic that nobody wants to talk or know about it. It's a closed book. When the UK government tried to keep convicted paedophiles anonymous recently, the public spoke-out and then the records of where they (i.e. the convicted paedophiles) lived were realised. That was a terrible thing to do, but it came in the aftermath of a few murder cases in which former paedophiles were involved.

It will be understood and accepted someday. Things don't remain the same forever.

Chucky wrote:It's a closed book. When the UK government tried to keep convicted paedophiles anonymous recently, the public spoke-out and then the records of where they (i.e. the convicted paedophiles) lived were realised. That was a terrible thing to do, but it came in the aftermath of a few murder cases in which former paedophiles were involved.

murders. MURDERS. more of a reason to find a real treatment instead of locking up and eventually releasing potenitally murderous psychos driven by their pedophilic urges. knowing where a murderous pedophile lives isn't going to change the fact that that person is still afflicted with a mental disease that won't go away or be eased until an effective treatment is developed. and the only way an effective treatment can be developed is if more is understood about the disease. the only way more can be understood about the disease is if more research is applied. the only way more research can be applied is if there's more funding towards the research. the only way funding can come across is if people are genuinely interested in treating a disease that can actually end up in MURDER. the only way people will be interested is if they're educated. the only way people can be educated is if scientists actually go outside the box, and publicize the fact that this is a disease, and if the right steps are taken, can be effectively treated.

but we're a people who love hate-mongering, love media-hyping, love pointing the finger.
I understand it's because children are involved. the thought of a child being harmed sexually, or worse, killed as a result, makes me cringe with disgust and contempt. But again, there are people who only possess thoughts - and can't help them anymore than the homosexual can help thinking about another man - so if we understand that while pedophilia is disgusting and wrong at it's core, the person who possesses these thoughts is not always inherently evil - good people are possessed by horrible things - such is the nature of mental illness.
you say that one day this disease will be understood - I'm hoping that some real understanding will come within the next decade - and that society will ease it's hatred towards the pedophile - and make a distinction between the pedophile and the child molester. one is simply mentally ill, the other is a criminal - and the two are not always mutually exclusive - so this gives room for the person with pedophilic thoughts to go get help without worry of losing everything that he/she loves in life - because thoughts alone are NOT a crime.
but I'll reiterate: who in their right mind would WANT to be a pedophile? children are not sex objects. children are not sexual beings. they are innocent, and need to be protected and loved, not abused and tarnished - so anyone who knows this to be true, and has developed a late-onset of pedophilia, must be torn to bits psychologically and emotionally over something that they know is disgusting and wrong - it's not societal standards - that's bull - ancient greece, or not, I don't care - it's not right - the thoughts alone are not right - so I feel sympathy, a lot of it, for the pedophile who doesn't want to be that way - the ones who relish in being that way, and enjoy it, and find no problem with it - okay, those people can't and won't be helped because they don't want help - if they refuse treatment, either force it, or lock 'em up, by all means, because a child's life might be at stake- but there must be thousands and thousands of men out there tortured by thoughts, and would never act - but who's lives are debilitated beyond belief - imagine all of a sudden developing this disease? how insecure and lonely and guilty and angry you'd become? it's the ultimate HEX, man.

can't we do something? there's treatment for all types of obscure mental illnesses - but the one where children can potentially be hurt as result of, we ignore because it's too "dirty" or "evil" ? it's completely counter-intuitive!

Again, very interesting post. We seem to be finding some common ground too, and I reckon that you're right in that 'horrible' things pass through the minds of virtually everyone. Some people do enough other things in their lives such that they will never act on these 'horrible' thoughts though. However, for others, who are for whatever reason susceptible or more likely to act on them, then there-in exists a problem. It was only a few months ago that my brother told me he gets thoughts about beating the crap out of certain people, but he's in control of himself such that he would not do such things.

So, whilst paedophilic thoughts are no doubt on many peoples' minds, it is only some who cannot control the urges and these are the ones who get cast to the dungeon by society for having this 'illness'.