ElKahn wrote:So, I'll give my opinions here to contribute to the FAQ....then we'll discuss together about it.
Remember it's constructive criticism, a collaboration, so in no way what I am going to say means I am criticizing in a negative way. Okay, that said...
Again, I want to emphasise, the entire thing was meant to be a starting point and a first draft anyway. I'm not married to the thing, and invited criticism for a reason. I'm especially grateful to those of you who've suggested alternate wordings, since rewriting these to account for the criticisms is definitely more work, and more likely to see me missing the point of the criticism when I try.
ElKahn wrote:Let's start with point 1:What is a pedophile?
A pedophile is an adult who's primary sexual orientation is to prepubescent children. The term for adults primarily oriented toward pubescent or slightly postpubescent teenagers is hebephiles or ephebophiles, and while the two have slightly different origins, in practice, they are used pretty much interchangably. To round out the chronophilias, persons who are primarily oriented toward infants and toddlers are called nepiophiles or infantophiles, persons primarily oriented toward adults are called teliophiles, and persons primarily oriented toward the elderly are called gerontophiles.
My version of it:
What is a pedophile?
"A pedophile is an adult or older adolescent (at least 16 years old) whose primary or exclusive sexual attraction is to prepubescent children. A pedophile's preference might be exclusive or primary: an exclusive pedophile has zero to little attraction to adults, while the primary pedophile is also attracted to adults, but shows a moderate or strong preference for children."
I would re-write it this way. Older adolescents experience pedophilia too, so even though it's safer to wait until you are at least 18+ to consider yourself a pedophile, the first signs of pedophilia might occur in adolescence, too. Now, let's switch to the hebephilia/ephebophilia issue.
Well, the reason is that I don't understand why hebephilia and ephebophilia should be included in this point. We are talking about pedophilia here, and discussion about hebephilia and ephebophilia (I doubt the existence of hebephilia though) should be considered in another point. Inserting terms such as hebephilia and ephebophilia in this point while explaining what's pedophilia could be confusing to people who are new to this and need clear explanations. Furthermore, the ongoing debate about hebephilia and ephebophilia should be mentioned. Hebephilia is not included in the current DSM, and ephebophilia is not included either.
That makes sense, separating out the other chronophilias into a different heading. I do think they need to be there somewhere, since it's one of the things that frequently comes up, but it makes sense to streamline the initial definition area.
ElKahn wrote:Second point:Do pedophiles have sex with children?
A person does not need to have sex with children to be classified as a pedophile. Just like a person can know they are homosexual without ever having had sex with another member of the same gender, a person can know they are a pedophile without having sex with a child. The overwhelming majority of pedophiles are not child molesters.
This one is pretty well written, except for the last sentence: "the overwhelming majority of pedophiles are not child molesters". There is no exact way to tell this.
I still think there's plenty of room to make this claim, but if you aren't comfortable with that strong a claim, your suggested replacement looks pretty good.
ElKahn wrote:We could place this sentence with this one: "Many pedophiles do not offend and can live their entire lives without doing so. However, some of them offend and might be convicted for this. It is important to remember, though, that not all pedophiles are child molesters, and not all child molesters are necessarily pedophiles."
I would reverse the order of "some offend" and "many do not offend", just on rhetorical grounds. So many people who come here are worried that they're inevitably going to break down and molest kids, I think someone in that state is less likely to get the wrong idea that way. Even for those who come here who aren't dealing with sexual thoughts of children, I think it's safe to say that anyone who finds themselves here will have heard of the idea that pedophiles molest kids. Structurally, I like confirming the information they already know, then following it up with the new information we're presenting. Otherwise, it looks pretty good.
Wow, looking back on that paragraph I was being long-winded.
ElKahn wrote:Written this way, it is automatically linked to the third point:Okay, so not all pedophiles are child molesters. All child molesters are pedophiles, though, right?
Wrong. The overwhelming majority of child molesters are not pedophiles. FBI statistics indicate that pedophiles make up only around 2-10% of child molesters. The majority of child molesters are what the FBI refers to as "situational offenders". That is to say, ordinary rapists who don't care who they're molesting. Children are chosen by these child molesters not because the molester is attracted to children, but because children are easier to dominate and easier to silence. The person most likely to molest a child is one of the child's parents.
As someone else said here, links need to be provided in order to validate the statement.
Do you mean a link other than the one I included in the later post in response to that criticism, or was that largely what you were thinking needed to be there?
ElKahn wrote:Let's move on to the fourth and fifth points:How common is pedophilia?
Studies of adult arousability using penile plesmographs show that approximately 33% of adult men are more sexually aroused when shown images of children than they are when shown images of adults. Self-reporting surveys have shown an incidence of closer to 20%.
Wait, so just because people get a stress reaction to seeing pictures of naked kids, they get classified as pedophiles?
As I noted, 33% of adult men showed higher levels of arousal from pictures of prepubescent children than they did to pictures of adults. 85% of adult men show some sexual response to prepubescent children.
I don't know but people reading this could understand that 85% of adult men are pedophiles, which is extremely damaging for the figure of man in society.
I'm not sure how, exactly.
ElKahn wrote:Also, mention the sources to these studies.
Okay, it does look like you're responding straight to the OP. I would have edited in the changes to the OP directly, but there seems to be an edit timeout for editing our own posts. Instead, I posted updated versions of the questions in contention.
ElKahn wrote:What does it mean to be "exclusive"?
Many pedophiles, while primarily attracted to young children, are able to get and sustain arousal with adults as well. The minority of pedophiles who have zero sexual interest in adults are what is referred to as "exclusive pedophiles".
Who said that exclusives are a minority? Also, who said exclusives have zero interest in adults? There might be pedophiles who show no sexual interest in adults but only a romantic interest, or just a romantic interest in children with no sex involved. I would delete that part and add something:
What does it mean to be "exclusive"?
Many pedophiles, while primarily attracted to young children, are able to get and sustain arousal with adults as well. However, exclusive pedophiles show very little to no attraction for adults.
There are many subcategories of pedophiles, such as the ones sexually attracted to children only but romantically attracted to adults, or sexually attracted to adults but romantically attracted to children only, but this does not matter in terms of being an exclusive pedophile. Being exclusive means to have very little to zero interest in adults, both sexually and romantically.
Does the term actually make as strong a statement about both sexual and romantic interest as that? Also, should we cover some 101 stuff on sexual versus romantic interest?
ElKahn wrote:I WOULD ADD ANOTHER POINT AFTER THIS:
[i]Is it possible to turn to an exclusive pedophile, when you are or used to be attracted to adults?
There is no proof whether you are actually able to turn exclusive or just find out about your exclusiveness later in life. Many factors should be taken into considerations here: how old were you when you were attracted to adults? Compare the attraction to adults to the attraction to children: do they have the same intensity? How many adults really interested you, were they a minority compared to children?
Since every person is different, and also every pedophile is different and has a different personal background, no general rules should be made. Also, there is no proof people actually turn exclusive or are born that way and find out about it later, just as there is no proof that pedophilia is present since birth or is just developed later in life.
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Note: I consider myself an exclusive, however, I was attracted to girls my age as a teen. Does it mean I just "turned" exclusive, or does it mean I just "found out" to be exclusive later in life, and attraction to girls my age happened only in adolescence? I was attracted to two girls my age when I was an older teen, respectively 17 and 19, both romantically and sexually, but it's just two and they were obsessive attractions, rather than healthy ones. Furthermore, they were not as strong as the attractions to little girls, so....there is no real explanation, really, and no general assumptions should be made. This needs to be explained in the FAQ for exclusives.
I worry only that you may be overstating what we know here. The list of factors you present could be read as indicating there are some criteria that exist for assessing the risk of such a "turn", and I don't think I've ever seen such a set of criteria or the research supporting one.
ElKahn wrote:Do pedophiles only care about sex, or do they feel real love for children?
While there are pedophiles who are only interested in sex, they are a minority, just like heterosexuals who are only interested in sex are a minority. While pedophilia is defined in terms of sexual orientation, pedophiles are as interested in romance, emotional intimacy, and affection as nonpedophiles are.
Again here, the word minority should be deleted. There is no way to tell whether it's a minority or not. Also, why just take into consideration heterosexuals after that? So, I'd re-write that like this:
Do pedophiles only care about sex, or do they feel real love for children?
While there are pedophiles who are only interested in sex, it doesn't mean that all pedophiles only care about sex, just like adults who are attracted to other adults might be only interested in sex, but it doesn't mean that all adult-attracted people are. While pedophilia is defined in terms of sexual orientation, pedophiles might also be as interested in romance, emotional intimacy, and affection as nonpedophiles are.
Yes, I added might. Again, let's not make generalizations, it's important.
I think I'd preffer to cut the final sentence rather than leave that might, since while I agree that the original was perhaps a stronger assertion than we can back up, the might in that spot in that sentence reads as though some pedophiles might care about romance, intimacy and affection, or that it might not be the case that some pedophiles care about romance, intimacy and affection. Perhaps this rewording would be better:
Do pedophiles only care about sex, or do they feel real love for children?
While there are pedophiles who are only interested in sex, it doesn't mean that all pedophiles only care about sex, just like adults who are attracted to other adults might be only interested in sex, but it doesn't mean that all adult-attracted people are. While pedophilia is defined in terms of sexual orientation, many pedophiles are just as interested in romance, emotional intimacy, and affection as nonpedophiles are.
ElKahn wrote:Is pedophilia caused by being molested as a child?
The so-called "cycle of abuse" theory is about child molesters, not pedophiles. As we've discussed above, it has little to nothing to do with pedophiles. Most pedophiles report that their sexual interest in children developed in roughly the same way and at the same times as teliophiles report their sexual interest in adults developing.
I would leave it like that, except for adding this at the end: "Also, not all child molesters were molested in their lives, and not all people who were molested are doomed to become child molesters."
So:
Is pedophilia caused by being molested as a child?
The so-called "cycle of abuse" theory is about child molesters, not pedophiles. As we've discussed above, it has little to nothing to do with pedophiles. Most pedophiles report that their sexual interest in children developed in roughly the same way and at the same times as teliophiles report their sexual interest in adults developing. Also, not all child molesters were molested in their lives, and not all people who were molested are doomed to become child molesters.
I like it.
ElKahn wrote:What does it mean if I have unwanted, intrusive sexual thoughts about children?
Not everyone who has sexual thoughts about children is a pedophile. As noted in the above studies, 85% of adult males have some sexual response to naked children. This is normal. Due to the social stigma around pedophilia, however, it can be distressing to have these random thoughts even if you are not primarily oriented toward children. The fear of being a pedophile can even manifest in repeated attempts to "test" oneself in order to "prove" your orientation. When this becomes a compulsive behavior we refer to it as POCD.
Again, the above studies need links AND this point seems to "normalize" sexual thoughts about children, which could also be dangerous.
I would re-define this:
What does it mean if I have unwanted, intrusive sexual thoughts about children?
Not everyone who has sexual thoughts about children is a pedophile. Due to the social stigma around pedophilia, however, it can be distressing to have these random thoughts even if you are not primarily oriented toward children. The fear of being a pedophile can even manifest in repeated attempts to "test" oneself in order to "prove" your orientation. When this becomes a compulsive behavior we refer to it as POCD. POCD is defined as Purely (or Primary) Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder, a subcategory of OCD which particularly focuses on the obsessive component, rather than on the compulsive one. So, if you fear of being a pedophile, have unwanted sexual thoughts about children or even a physical response to it, but you feel like you are not attracted to children in reality, then it's very likely you are experiencing POCD. Talking to a therapist about this can be helpful to reduce POCD symptoms and help you understand how the pedophilic thoughts are generated by POCD and not by your sexuality.
I like the added detail on POCD, but I think the 85% figure is important to help explain where the initial intrusive thoughts are coming from for POCD sufferers. It wasn't really put in there to normalize, but to explain. I feel like without that note, it still leaves the question up in the air of "if I'm not a pedophile, why did I get these thoughts in the first place?"
ElKahn wrote:The rest seems okay. However, I would add another point at the end:
Should I seek help for my pedophilia?
Again, there is no therapy proven to erase your attraction to children, but if you feel like this is becoming very distressing and interfering with your everyday life, it's better to seek treatment.
Treatment will not consist of trying to change your sexuality, but of trying to lower your sex drive through certain meds. Some antidepressants, such as SSRIs can show side-effects consisting of a complete to partial loss of sex drive, but taking antidepressants just to lower sex drive is not adviced. However, professional help from a psychiatrist is needed if you feel like your high sex drive and pedophilic fantasies are interfering with your daily activities. Professional help is adviced especially if you feel like you are a potential offender.
Due to social stigma it is often difficult to find professionals willing to treat pedophiles, and the fear of being reported to the authorities is high. For this, it is better to seek a professional specialized in working with paraphilias and sex offenders.
I think any suggestions about seeking therapy should include at least some mention of mandatory reporting requirements, since they're going to be of interest to anyone in deciding whether or who to talk about their pedophilic fantasies with.
ElKahn wrote:I hope my criticism can help. If someone does not agree with my corrections, feel free to say. We are all taking part in constructive criticism in order to contribute to build a well-done FAQ to help both pedophiles who need things clarified and nonpedophiles understand pedophilia.
As a pedophile myself, I felt the need to give my contribute to this. I hope YouthRightsRadical appreciates this and again buddy, it's not a negative criticism but a constructive one so I hope that my corrections did not offend your job, which is in general well done and everybody here should appreciate you for taking the time to do something so helpful. Thanks.
I absolutely appreciate the help, and hope that after we hash out all the disagreements, we can edit this all together into a FAQ we can all be happy with and ask a moderator to sticky.