Wrong uses of the term "Pedophilia" and its consequences

I have read too many articles, seen and heard stuff on TV and from people even from the ones around me abusing the term "pedophilia" and "pedophile".
Why does it seem so hard for most of people to understand that, for example, a 30 year-old liking a 14 year-old is not a pedophile? I would not consider it pedophilia. However, if the 30 year-old is attracted to a 12 year-old or younger, now that could pedophilia.
It is very important to understand that - I take as examples girls as it's easier for me to think of them, as I'm attracted to little girls only - a 14-15 year-old girl is no longer a child and usually is already developed to the point of looking more similar to adult women than pre-teens.
I find it hard to consider a 14 year-old a child, teenager sure but not a child.
Pedophilia is the attraction to prepubescent children, and a 14-15-16 year old is not prepubescent! Especially in our era where puberty starts much earlier than it used to.

There are cases on TV in my country, for example, talking a 32 year-old man arrested for encouraging prostitution of 16 year-old boys and allegedly making movies (the boys were consenting though, they wanted sex with that man because he's famous) and on TV this keeps being called pedophilia and CP.
There's no way a 30+ year-old having sexual relationships with a 16 year-old could be a pedophile.
I mean damn, a 16 year-old has not the body of a prepubescent child! Pedophilia is the attraction to prepubescent children, why does everybody keep calling everybody a pedophile?
It could be illegal in some places, having sex with a minor....but it's not pedophilia all the time!

I am a pedophile because I know I am, because I like little girls, who are prepubescent, and also pre-teens who are just about to start puberty or are at the early stages of it so they're not fully developed, but I don't like girls who are already fully developed and physically look like adults even if they're minors, this is why I don't like 16 or 17 year-old girls, if they have curves and adult features I don't really look at them. However, my attractions can vary, as there are 14 year old girls I find attractive as they still look innocent, but there are other 14 year olds who look like adults and I don't really care much about them.
You could say I'm also a hebephile, besides being a pedophile, but I'm starting to find this word very vague, honestly.

I know I am a pedophile because I'm a 20 year-old adult taking sexual glances at very young girls, and by young I don't mean 14-15 as they say in TV about most "pedophiles", by very young I mean from the age of 8 to the age of 13, that is the range I am really attracted to, although it can vary as I could even look at a 7 year-old if she's attractive enough to me, or to a 14 year-old or 15 year-old if she still looks innocent and she still has to complete puberty, hence she still looks partially innocent.
Me looking at that cute 8 year-old girl on the TV spot and thinking I'd like to cuddle with her, hug her and kiss her on the lips and feeling how my heart skips a beat whenever I see her, this is pedophilia!
That random guy arrested on TV for getting 14 and 15 year old girls to be prostitutes, that is surely a crime and a very wrong thing under the moral point of view, but technically it's not pedophilia!

The dangerous consequences of calling pedophile someone who's not technically a pedophile (but only legally)? They get a label attached to them that they don't really deserve as they don't have it, they're not pedophiles, scientifically speaking, so they shouldn't be called and treated as ones.


I would love to hear your opinions on this and I'd love to open a debate about how this situation could change. Is informing people useful? Should laws change? Should mass medias really stop attaching labels? Is there little information about our condition and how is it harmful for society, according to you? Feel free to express your opinions!

P.S: there is also the misconception that a young person can't be a pedophile, when technically you "need" to be 16+ to be considered one - but I think you can be a pedophile at any age really, as I think it's an innate sexual orientation, however you need to be a certain age to know this and confirm this.

Mass media doesn't like distinct sepreations. It doesn't sell, and it doesn't create mass hysteria. Notice also the ongoing trend of assuming every pedophile is a child moleser, and vice versa. I don't think there would ever be a true "understanding" of the issue in the media (and, again, I'm talking about mass media). Instead, I think what would happen is that, eventually, the major obsession with pedophilia in general would slowly pass.

Indeed, the word "pedophile" illicits a reaction and draws the attention of the listener. If news used the correct terms like hebephile/ephebophile people'd be like "What?" Plus there's an economic interest in erring on the side of caution. News channels are always fact-checking and ridiculing their competitors. If one could be maligned as being for under 18 sexual relationships with those over 18 then be publicly invicerated and loose advertising dollars. Shouldn't expect news agencies to report accurate factual information. Been noticing CNN slacking off last few days with their reporting on the rape conviction guy in Alabama not getting any jail time. They don't mention the trial testimony where the victim didn't report the multiple rapes over several years until after the rapist said he was going back to his wife. In that light, the seemingly slap on the wrist punishment makes a lot more sense, without it it's an insane verdict. But the insane verdict part is more sensational.

I wouldn't describe pedophilia as sexual attraction by adults to children below x age. Rather sexual attraction by adult for children before the age of puberty. Reason being puberty's onset can vary by quite a bit. Since puberty is when sex hormones begin producing themselves and when sexual desire first clicks 'on' in earnest, it's curious to me why a pedophile is interested in people without those desires. Suppose there are many reasons, and if I'm ever bored enough could look it up

No matter how you try and justify what is and what isn't pedophilia any attraction to a CHILD under 18 years of age is Pedophilia. That is not what I think but that is what society thinks and we all know that society is always right and never wrong! Right? lol I am sure there are different names for being attracted to a certain age but that is just the way that it is.

It could be illegal in some places, having sex with a minor....but it's not pedophilia all the time!

It is illegal everywhere I know of to have sex with a minor. At it's essence, being a minor means amongst other things being unable to give consent.

the boys were consenting though

Since you say that he is charged with CP, this means the boys were under the age of consent. They did not give consent because they would be unable to do so.

Pedophilia is the attraction to prepubescent children, and a 14-15-16 year old is not prepubescent! Especially in our era where puberty starts much earlier than it used to

Pedophilia is the attracted to prepubescent and can include peri-pubescent children (in part depending what country you reside in whether this alone would receive a diagnosis of pedophilia), which includes children who have not yet completed puberty. Completion of puberty is considered to usually happen between ages 15-17 for girls and for boys age 16-17.

That random guy arrested on TV for getting 14 and 15 year old girls to be prostitutes, that is surely a crime and a very wrong thing under the moral point of view, but technically it's not pedophilia!

Depending on the country you reside in and whether or not he himself was sexually attracted to these girls or only forcing them to be sexually active with others, technically it very well can. By your own examples you state that there are people in this age group who have yet to complete puberty and as such your pedophilic desires are present.

However, if the 30 year-old is attracted to a 12 year-old or younger, now that could pedophilia.

That is pedophilia by current diagnostic standards.

The dangerous consequences of calling pedophile someone who's not technically a pedophile (but only legally)? They get a label attached to them that they don't really deserve as they don't have it, they're not pedophiles, scientifically speaking, so they shouldn't be called and treated as ones.

I do see your point in a way. For a more complex view of a similar predicament regarding pedophilia and a sexual interest in children; I was abused by my father in my childhood, adolescence and adulthood. I don't believe he was a pedophile. He seemingly had no interest in children as a whole and wanted me as his wife. In his mind I was not a child (different here than thinking a child can give consent). He was a very disturbed man but I sincerely don't think he was interested in any other child. He found people in the category of age 16-18 sexually attractive, but by current DSM and ICD standards that does not make for a diagnosis of pedophilia. His actions with me however do.

I don't think it'd be particularly harmful or helpful for him to receive that diagnosis but I obviously believe it would help him to receive therapy for his skewed views. Whether or not he gets branded a pedophile or simply a sex offender who had sexual contact with a child to me makes little difference. The therapy would have to be tailored differently though, and that is where I do see your point. Diagnosis has a lot to say for what type or and how to proceed in therapy.

ElKahn; I want to say that I understand that this is a sensitive topic and that it must hurt to see something you are branded in such an ugly way when that is not your experience of how it is living with this. I do notice here though that you are making more than a few interesting "could" and "can" statements, as I've pointed to above, because I don't believe them to be healthy. I believe sexual crimes of any nature, pedophilic or not, need to be addressed as something that is harmful and illegal, not can be. Other than this though I think it was very interesting to read your thoughts on this and I hope you welcome mine as you do ask people to voice their opinions here

Sex crimes must be treated as harmful and illegal, nor can be, but are. Or however you phrased that. What's illegal or not changes over time. Hence qualifiers of 'can' hurt or be harmful. Homosexuality used to be a criminal matter (ever heard of Stonewall riots?) But should we treat homosexuality as a criinal matter if we were back there and then? Just because some things are criminal as well today doesn't mean they're harmful. Only means they're criminal. Is a sex crime, or should it be trated as harmful if a 50 year old has consensual sex with a 17 year old? What about 16? What magically happens when you turn 17 that didn't exist at 16? 17'd be legal here in Missouri and much of the rest fo the country, yet 16 isn't. One's criminal, the other isn't. Is one harmful and the other not? What about one of the Mexican states where it's 12? Is a 13 yo there more mature or physically developed than the 13yo's up here? It's all arbitrary and not based in any way on science.

lifelongthing,
I am very sorry about what happened to you.
I never said that sex crimes should not punished, I actually consider them very bad things, even qorst than murder as they murder the victim psychologically, too, and leave a scar that doesn't go away. I hope this is clear that I condemn all forms of physical, sexual and psychological abuse.

In many places it is not illegal to have sexual relationships with minors. In Europe -except for Turkey where the age of consent is 18 like in some states of the USA - it is legal to have sex with minors, with Spain being the country where the age of consent is the lowest one: just 13 years old, a law that changed recently. Other European countries (including the one where I live in) have it at 14, other ones at 15, 16, and Ireland at 17. So, it's not illegal to have sex with minors of certain ages everywhere. I thought it was better to correct this statement. I am not here to question whether it is morally wrong or right having sex with a 14 year-old, I'm just describing the laws here.

The boys allegedly involved in CP are not under the age of consent, as they are 16 and as I said, where I live and where that man lives, too, the age of consent is 14.
However, in my country, prostitution of minors is illegal, doesn't matter if they're minors older than 14 (which is the age of consent), if it's prostitution, it's illegal. That man was charged with exploitation of prostitution of minors, and it's illegal here.
I hope I clarified things about law.

The DSM clearly states that pedophilia is the attraction to prepubescent children (generally younger than 13 years old), I believe it's a vague definition but I think there is no age that should indicate the limit, really, as the onset of puberty varies from individual to individual, and it's different for males and females, as males tend to develop later.
However, I find it easier to say what is NOT pedophilia, and that is being attracted to an individual who has already completed puberty, hence has the body of an adult, sexually mature person.
For girls (I talk about girls as I find it easier, since I'm interested in them only) puberty is usually completed at the age of 15.
I admit it isn't always easy to define where pedophilia ends and "normal attractions" begin.
But I think many of you here agree with me on the fact that the word is widely used and it is too often used in a wrong way, as even a 20 year-old dating a 16 year-old is sometimes called a pedophile (come on, it does happen and it's a shame!).

Sorry if I used could in a wrong way, so yeah an adult being attracted to a 12 year-old is pedophilia, although some would consider it "hebephilia". I used to trust that word, but now I dislike it as I find it very vague and misleading.
Everybody take a look at the definition of hebephilia in Wikipedia:
"Hebephilia is one of several types of chronophilia (sexual preference for a specific physiological appearance related to age), in this case a primary or exclusive sexual interest in pubescent individuals approximately 11–14 years old – approximate because age of onset of puberty varies. Hebephilia differs from ephebophilia, which refers to the sexual preference for individuals in later adolescence,[1][2] and differs from pedophilia,[2] which refers to the sexual preference for prepubescent children 13 years of age or younger.
"
Wait wait wait....what?! It says it is a primary or exclusive sexual interest in pubescent individuals approximately 11-14 years old, but then it says that pedophilia refers to sexual preference for prepubescent children 13 years of age or younger. But didn't it say that from 11 to 14 it is hebephilia, so why are they now saying that pedophilia generally goes below 13 years-old? I find it kinda confusing, so if a 13 year-old still has not reached puberty the adult attracted to the child is a pedophile, but if the 13 year-old started puberty the adult would be a hebephile...so, age doesn't matter, only puberty can tell whether it's pedophila or hebephilia. But, does hebephilia really exist after all?! For example, I am attracted to a 12 year-old girl who has just started puberty but still looks like a child, had her first period just a few months ago (so scientifically is pubescent) but no matter what, I still see her as a child and she still looks like a child, and according to some it's not okay for me to like her, but according to some other people it is okay just because it could be considered hebephilia and hebephilia is okay according to many. WHAT?!

In a nutshell, I believe:
1-Hebephilia doesn't really exist, it's just another term for pedophilia who has the specificity to define an attraction to a certain age group, generally going from 11 to 14 as it is when puberty occur. 2-The word pedophilia is often misused
3-Many things about pedophilia are actually confusing
4-Pedophilia is harmful to children, no matter what they say, and if the pedophile has a conscience, it is harmful for the pedophile too. It can be a trauma for a pedophile to discover being one, as it was for me and I'm sure it was for many others here and around the world.
5-I consider pedophilia to end where the "subject of the attraction" is completing puberty, hence pedophilia is when an adult simply is attracted to an individual whose puberty is not completed yet or is non-existent, hence prepubescent and early pubescent - there is really no hebephilia thing for me.

Everytime I try to give a definition of pedophilia, I get lost in my own thoughts. I must admit it's really hard to determine where it ends.

-- Mon Nov 18, 2013 1:11 am --

lifelongthing wrote:Other than this though I think it was very interesting to read your thoughts on this and I hope you welcome mine as you do ask people to voice their opinions here

I love seeing people's opinions as I find it very interesting when somebody's opinions are constructive and helpful and it's good to create constructive debates as we all can learn new things from other people here. So, of course I welcome your opinions and everybody else's!

HesDeltanCaptain wrote:It's all arbitrary and not based in any way on science.

Exactly. So, according to law, in some parts of Mexico it is okay to engage in sexual relationships with 12 year-olds. Does it mean Mexican 12 year-olds are smarter / more able to give consent than 12 year-olds in the USA? I don't think so. Law is not science, it is not exact. Personally, I believe no 12 year-old can give consent, even though most 12 year-olds already know what sex is and some even start to masturbate and stuff, no matter how much they know about it and no matter how mature they say they are, I don't see how they would give consent. Many children brag about being mature, I thought I was mature myself when I was 12, and while it is true that I was a very mature kid, I still wasn't mature enough for things like sex. No matter how mature a 12 year-old can be, he/she will never have the same kind of maturity a 18+ person has! Of course a 12 year-old can be pretty mature for their age, but they'll never be as mature as an older person, during adolescence even one year of difference can be important and change the way someone thinks.

I am very sorry about what happened to you.
I never said that sex crimes should not punished, I actually consider them very bad things, even qorst than murder as they murder the victim psychologically, too, and leave a scar that doesn't go away. I hope this is clear that I condemn all forms of physical, sexual and psychological abuse.

Thank you. I never said you did either, ElKahn. I said that you used "more than a few interesting "could" and "can" statements", which I took note of

I will take note of the use minor here. Minor is not completely defined in jurisdiction and I misread your post as a minor in regards to sexuality. In jurisdiction you can for instance be a minor in regards to drinking yet not be a minor when it comes to signing legal documents. I appreciate you explaining

In regards to the man you wrote about then, becomes if these girls had or had not reached completion of puberty as well as other factors whether he would be a pedophile. I see your point though about the misuse here.

However, in my country, prostitution of minors is illegal, doesn't matter if they're minors older than 14 (which is the age of consent), if it's prostitution, it's illegal. That man was charged with exploitation of prostitution of minors, and it's illegal here.
I hope I clarified things about law.

I should clarify. They are under the age of consent for prostitution. Depending on your country, being a sex worker can be legal if the choice is made at an age where you are considered to be capable of making an informed choice about it (give full consent to it). In some countries, sex work is illegal on the whole which is a different discussion.

The DSM clearly states that pedophilia is the attraction to prepubescent children (generally younger than 13 years old), I believe it's a vague definition but I think there is no age that should indicate the limit, really, as the onset of puberty varies from individual to individual, and it's different for males and females, as males tend to develop later.

However, I find it easier to say what is NOT pedophilia, and that is being attracted to an individual who has already completed puberty, hence has the body of an adult, sexually mature person.

That was in part my point - that the ages you mentioned above can be peripubertal, which is included. This means, anyone that has not completed puberty can be considered a sexual object by a pedophile (someone having a sexual interest in pre- or peri-pubertal persons).

But I think many of you here agree with me on the fact that the word is widely used and it is too often used in a wrong way, as even a 20 year-old dating a 16 year-old is sometimes called a pedophile (come on, it does happen and it's a shame!).

I do see your point, and I think again it can be detrimental to be labeled as something so taboo if you are not a pedophile. Of course that could be highly traumatizing to an individual. It also is problematic for those who suffer from pedophilia as it gives an unclear view of what one is dealing with.

Sorry if I used could in a wrong way, so yeah an adult being attracted to a 12 year-old is pedophilia, although some would consider it "hebephilia".

As hebephilia is not present as a disorder in the DSM or ICD I do not concern myself with it much, for much of the same reasons; it is vague.

I love seeing people's opinions as I find it very interesting when somebody's opinions are constructive and helpful and it's good to create constructive debates as we all can learn new things from other people here. So, of course I welcome your opinions and everybody else's!

I'm glad

Oh ok I see your point now

The "age of consent for prostitution" here is 18.
There's also an exception where the age of consent is 16 if the adult has some kind of "social power" over the minor, for example is a teacher.

I wish it was not so taboo. In my country the scandal of prostitution of minors exploded and we're getting pedophilia mass hysteria again, something that is making me feel uncomfortable.
What if my friends notice my embarrassed facial expressions when I hear the word pedophile? What if they start noticing something about me? I am afraid and worried.
I wish I could talk freely about it but everytime I hear someone around me say things like "damn pedophiles!" and "they are the worst scum of the earth", I retire in my own world in shame and wonder why the hell do I have to carry this burden for the entire life?

I am still young now, I am 20 and I could still try to justify my attraction to a 12 year old and someone understands.
But being an exclusive, what will happen when I am 25, 28, 30? I wont certainly say I like a 11-12 year old (or slightly younger) and friends will start wondering why I dont speak about girls and why I dont have a partner. And this is what I fear....