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Is it a TOCD flareup or am I trans?

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Is it a TOCD flareup or am I trans?

Postby youllgetoverit » Sat Nov 07, 2020 1:30 pm

I've posted here on and off for years about my TOCD and I still can't tell if this is OCD or if I'm a closeted transwoman or not.

The main piece of evidence I have is the fact that I've had other OCD fixations before this (POCD, worrying about being a zoophile, attraction to family members, meteors hitting the earth, etc.). And I keep fixating on the "why do I get anxious when I look in the mirror" question. Is that just because of the TOCD? I remember when I had the POCD episode in university that the TOCD just magically went away when I was worrying about being a pedo.

Anyway, my TOCD keeps flaring up whenever I read about stuff like The Matrix being a trans metaphor (according to the now transgender Wachowski directors) or X or Y character being revealed as trans (like the main character of Celeste) by their trans creators. It just sends me into a flurry of PMing people on chat programs about why this is obnoxious and bad representation for LGBT people while trying to reassure myself I'm not trans.

So, what is it? Am I trans or not? I don't remember being uncomfortable with my body as a kid and I only started fixating on gender stuff around when I was realizing I was gay. But I didn't have the language or vocabulary to make it TOCD until I started reading about gender stuff in high school. And now that it's a huge hullabaloo social issue, it flares up all the time.

I wish I could just be a normal gay man with a beard (love my beard) that didn't have OCD about this.
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Re: Is it a TOCD flareup or am I trans?

Postby Snaga » Tue Nov 10, 2020 6:55 am

Well, first off, I'm Bisexual, so I fit in the LGBT sphere- also I'm... not trans? But... I'm.... different. Even if my normal presentation is Cis.


youllgetoverit wrote:t just sends me into a flurry of PMing people on chat programs about why this is obnoxious and bad representation for LGBT people while trying to reassure myself I'm not trans.


THAT right there. I think between things like that (and I personally would accuse the Matrix folks of retconning, to fit their narrative, because that's the 'in' thing now), and the (very good) fact that it's much easier/safer, to be LGBT, in a lot of the Western World, creates a perfect little petri dish for HOCD/TOCD.

I think what you need to do, is remind yourself how you felt about yourself, before you fell into TOCD. And remember that gender is... not all one thing, or the other- we're all going to be a mix of gender traits. I happen to lean feminine, but I don't have enough gender dysphoria to cause me to want to do anything about it. I might be an OSDD1b system (think DID Lite, though that's not entirely accurate) and well my female alts certainly aren't happy, but tough titty, said the kitty. We're in a male body, and that's how it's gonna stay. The folks I've known here, who are really trans, are utterly miserable until they transition. I mean crushing despair. And that's how I know I'm not trans- I would not, in fact, just as soon be dead, as untransitioned.

And I think no one with TOCD feels that way- they're like the opposite! Most of them feel as if they'd simply die, if they WERE trans. There's a difference between not wanting to be something, even though you know you are, and simply being afraid of being something. I didn't ask to be Bi, and I don't like it- but at the same time, I know what I am and I'd recoil in horror, at the idea of suddenly being made straight or gay only. The core being wants, what it wants. Someone who's trans has every right to wish they weren't- but at the same time, I think there will be a drive towards being able to present and feel more like themselves, that simply 'wish I wasn't', cannot overcome.
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Re: Is it a TOCD flareup or am I trans?

Postby youllgetoverit » Thu Feb 11, 2021 6:53 pm

Snaga wrote:Well, first off, I'm Bisexual, so I fit in the LGBT sphere- also I'm... not trans? But... I'm.... different. Even if my normal presentation is Cis.


youllgetoverit wrote:t just sends me into a flurry of PMing people on chat programs about why this is obnoxious and bad representation for LGBT people while trying to reassure myself I'm not trans.


THAT right there. I think between things like that (and I personally would accuse the Matrix folks of retconning, to fit their narrative, because that's the 'in' thing now), and the (very good) fact that it's much easier/safer, to be LGBT, in a lot of the Western World, creates a perfect little petri dish for HOCD/TOCD.

I think what you need to do, is remind yourself how you felt about yourself, before you fell into TOCD. And remember that gender is... not all one thing, or the other- we're all going to be a mix of gender traits. I happen to lean feminine, but I don't have enough gender dysphoria to cause me to want to do anything about it. I might be an OSDD1b system (think DID Lite, though that's not entirely accurate) and well my female alts certainly aren't happy, but tough titty, said the kitty. We're in a male body, and that's how it's gonna stay. The folks I've known here, who are really trans, are utterly miserable until they transition. I mean crushing despair. And that's how I know I'm not trans- I would not, in fact, just as soon be dead, as untransitioned.

And I think no one with TOCD feels that way- they're like the opposite! Most of them feel as if they'd simply die, if they WERE trans. There's a difference between not wanting to be something, even though you know you are, and simply being afraid of being something. I didn't ask to be Bi, and I don't like it- but at the same time, I know what I am and I'd recoil in horror, at the idea of suddenly being made straight or gay only. The core being wants, what it wants. Someone who's trans has every right to wish they weren't- but at the same time, I think there will be a drive towards being able to present and feel more like themselves, that simply 'wish I wasn't', cannot overcome.


I've never felt like I wanted to be trans or present as feminine. I just get hyper anxious about it whenever I get triggered; a YouTuber named PhilosophyTube transitioned MTF and despite reading some of the sketch circumstances surrounding the transition, it just set me off again and that's why I'm back here again.

Keep in mind that I seemingly had OCD about this WAY before it was a trend to be trans/NB. Like, as far back as late high school. Is that significant? I keep bouncing back and forth about it. I do not want to be a woman at all, never have. But then I wonder "oh are you only worrying because of social stigma, why don't you just be 'yourself'" and that makes me worry more.

So, what is it? Am I in denial or is this just OCD torturing me?

An example: I've been seeing a personal trainer as of late; I don't feel like I'm overcompensating, more that in the midst of the pandemic I want to stay healthy. Would I want to be a trans woman if I am actively making my body more masculine by working out? Or is that just denial?
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Re: Is it a TOCD flareup or am I trans?

Postby Snaga » Thu Feb 11, 2021 11:55 pm

I wouldn't think you're trans.

Maybe I've asked this- you're gay, yes? Could the fear of being trans, be related to part of you not being completely cool about being gay? You say it started up about the same time you figured out you were gay. Maybe when you were back at that point in time, your brain came up with that thought as an alternative. I mean, as far as modern history goes, it's never been a better time to be gay in a lot of the world, as far as acceptance, or at least, being left alone about it. However... it's still 'different'. I wonder if that played a part in it? And even if you're completely accepting of your sexuality now- once OCD gets its fangs into something, it don't let go without being beat off. How many posters here- especially the sexuality and gender OCD themes- have had problems with their OCD long after whatever it was happened, that put that little OCD seed in their brain? Lots.
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Re: Is it a TOCD flareup or am I trans?

Postby Snaga » Fri Feb 12, 2021 12:00 am

And now see in my case- I've been chatting in GID with someone past couple days and going back over how I feel personally. While I've had a lot of angst over my sexual inclinations (bisexual), I've never OCD'd over being trans. I wish I had been born a girl, full stop. I'm not trans because I gave it a lot of thought way back when, and it wasn't out of fear, it was out of I really thought about it, and I don't have gender dysphoria, and while I don't like having a Y chromosome, I have it. I think if you had any kind of real desire to transition, you'd know it. I knew it. I ultimately decided not to, but if I could have taken a magic pill to change my DNA, and felt free to do so- heck yeah.
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Re: Is it a TOCD flareup or am I trans?

Postby youllgetoverit » Fri Feb 12, 2021 2:24 am

Snaga wrote:I wouldn't think you're trans.

Maybe I've asked this- you're gay, yes? Could the fear of being trans, be related to part of you not being completely cool about being gay? You say it started up about the same time you figured out you were gay. Maybe when you were back at that point in time, your brain came up with that thought as an alternative. I mean, as far as modern history goes, it's never been a better time to be gay in a lot of the world, as far as acceptance, or at least, being left alone about it. However... it's still 'different'. I wonder if that played a part in it? And even if you're completely accepting of your sexuality now- once OCD gets its fangs into something, it don't let go without being beat off. How many posters here- especially the sexuality and gender OCD themes- have had problems with their OCD long after whatever it was happened, that put that little OCD seed in their brain? Lots.


Yes, I am gay. And there's credence to the theory that I'm just still hung up on the shame of being gay, subconsciously.

For the record, I'm still very closeted with my family. My mother will NOT talk about it and my dad says "don't scare your mother, go out and date girls." I have a feeling he would be fine with it if my mother wasn't around, but that's not how it is right now. With everyone else in my family, they know, but we just don't talk about it. It's "different," yes, and it's suffocating. As for my friends, they know and they're cool with it. But I can't date or anything because I'm stuck living at home with my folks for now and there's a pandemic going on, too!

So, you're saying that my original fears are still there, even if my life has changed otherwise? I will also say that I'm pretty "straight passing" as a result of being closeted for a while, but I don't want to wear any rainbows or be very flamboyant. An online friend of mine accused me of hating anything feminine when he showed me his painted nails and I said "eh, you do you." I don't want to paint my nails or do drag or anything. I like fashion and looking good as of the past couple of years, but my tastes are decidedly very masculine. What, am I still very repressed and stuck up just because apparently I don't want to come across as feminine?

And yeah, back in high school, I had that intrusive thought of me being the girl when I'm with a guy. That terrified me and I thought that very thought's EXISTENCE meant that I wanted to become one. Oddly enough, I also had the fear of being a pedophile, and that took over the other fear for the most part. I joked to myself that if EVERY fear of mine was true, I'd be a transgender woman pedophile, which is ridiculous. But I couldn't let them go.

Snaga wrote:And now see in my case- I've been chatting in GID with someone past couple days and going back over how I feel personally. While I've had a lot of angst over my sexual inclinations (bisexual), I've never OCD'd over being trans. I wish I had been born a girl, full stop. I'm not trans because I gave it a lot of thought way back when, and it wasn't out of fear, it was out of I really thought about it, and I don't have gender dysphoria, and while I don't like having a Y chromosome, I have it. I think if you had any kind of real desire to transition, you'd know it. I knew it. I ultimately decided not to, but if I could have taken a magic pill to change my DNA, and felt free to do so- heck yeah.


I never imagined myself as a girl growing up and wanted to become one. I currently still don't have any desire to transition. I was never interested in girls' clothes or anything. I want to grow my beard down to my belly button if I can. I never want to shave it off unless I have to interview for a job again.

But I still get anxious in the mirror and my intrusive thoughts flare up again.

But what sucks is that as much proof that I give myself, it's never enough and the OCD never leaves me alone. And whenever I watch a video of a trans coming out story and hear the language of "I'm finally happy with who I am" and such it just makes me super anxious all over again and I spiral.
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Re: Is it a TOCD flareup or am I trans?

Postby Snaga » Fri Feb 12, 2021 2:47 am

You don't at all sound trans to me, sweetie.

As for being a gay trans pedo.... When you're looking at it from the outside, it seems ridiculous. Not when you're the one feeling it, though. And it seems like a lot of the folks here cycles through those fears- I think when OCD plays one out, then it pulls one it hasn't used in a while, to get y'all riled up again. I like to think of OCD as a living thing that lives on fear, inside my head. And it does seem as if our disorder is very clever at switching themes, when it's time.

No I was quickly interested in wearing 'nice' things- for a while when I was young. If you never even wanted to do that, you'll have a very hard time convincing this little pixie that you are a drag queen, much less trans.

You're not even a boy in a dress...

But OCD doesn't want to hear about all that. OCD isn't very rational.

My main thuktunthp is Harm OCD- intrusive harm thoughts. And I had to make myself not care about getting those thoughts, and just be like hey I'm not going to do them.

And since OCD is OCD is OCD... it seems as if that ought to work for this. Hey I'm not trans. No matter how many times your brain screams at you that you want it, you have to be just as stubborn in that you don't.

The closest personal experience is my bisexuality- but even then, it wasn't HOCD. It was simply obsessing first that I'm gay gay gay or I'm straight what's wrong with me I'm just imagining this. Until I just sat myself down, and thought okay- stop obsessing. What has been my fantasy life? What has been the way I behave around people? What do I like? What do I not like? Okay, the empirical evidence says I'm Bi, therefore, that's my story, and I'm sticking to it, whenever my OCD brain tries to say I'm this or that. Because I mean, OCD makes us think so black-and-white. Well life ain't.

IF... I had trans fears... I'd just go over all those proofs you've given. You're not trans. And I think this overriding terror at the thought is just more proof. I... am almost trans. I mean, I've given it a lot of thought. At no time was I in terror. Heck, I don't like being Bi. But I'm not in terror at it- it's not HOCD. It's simply well I appear to be Bi and I wouldn't wish that on anyone, thinking it's better to be mostly one or the other. But terror? No. To me, that's what separates OCD fears from really being something. You can NOT want to be something, have angst, be dismayed, whatever. But this fear that's so great that people would rather be dead, than be Trans? Or Gay? Naw, I'm calling OCD on that.
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Re: Is it a TOCD flareup or am I trans?

Postby youllgetoverit » Fri Feb 12, 2021 2:56 pm

The key thing is that the terror in question comes from the so called ego dystonic thoughts, right? These thoughts go against my self perception, therefore they're terrifying. It's like the pedo worries, they would upend my whole self image as a non pedo.
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Re: Is it a TOCD flareup or am I trans?

Postby youllgetoverit » Sun Feb 14, 2021 12:48 am

Another thing I don't think I've mentioned -- I get haircuts every couple of months and I get super anxious looking at myself in the mirror for half an hour and always just get a trim, nothing else.

I don't even like my hair too long. I've never really grown it out. But I keep thinking I have to do it or else "I'll never know what it's like." I get similar worries when I think "I don't want to dress as a woman" but apparently I have to force myself to try it.

I had similar thoughts during the pedo episodes but I NEVER looked up anything illegal to "test." I did have episodes where I'd wake up with morning wood and I'd be paranoid I was aroused by thoughts of kids. Arousal monitoring, I think it's called?

And as of late, there's more potential themes. I look at my baby nephew and think about the horrible things I could possibly to do him. I get violent images stuck in my head. Is this harm OCD? I don't want any of these distressing thoughts!
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Re: Is it a TOCD flareup or am I trans?

Postby Snaga » Sun Feb 14, 2021 7:14 am

Since all OCD is OCD, meaning that all our terms are merely conveniences of theme descriptions, I think there can be overlap and fuzzy lines between themes. I think pocd could be a form of harm OCD, especially those thoughts.

I think a big part of the fear in harm OCD is potential ability. You could do things to a baby. That mere fact sets us off. I could easily kill a loved one- my brain wants me to equate ability, with desire or at the least, inevitability, when it can't convince me I desire it.

So along those lines, you think wow I could molest that baby- which of course you could- it's a helpless infant- and OCD is like yes you want to! And then you're like no! And then, if it is like mine, it falls back to various angles of But You Won't Be Able To Help It.

Conflating ability/possibility, with desire or inevitability. At which point you have to call BS on it and reiterate to yourself that you not only don't care to do that, nothing can make you do that. You're not an automaton. You're not possessed. You know darn well you're not a pedo, that's your story, and you're sticking to it.

If I were uncontrollably violent; I'd have done it. I haven't, therefore my intrusive harm thoughts are bull. Full stop.
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