N-jealousy vs. non-jealousy and jealousy in general

My dad was very jealous when my parents were still together. When my mum was there, he did not know what to do with her, but he would not let her leave the house without fussing either. When we left for good, he would call us multiple (about 100, literally) times a day to rage and threaten us.

So dear narcs, are you jealous in relationships? If you are, to what an extent, how exactly does it feel, what causes the feeling, what sets you off most? Is there some sort of overlap with BPD in the sense that you fear to be left alone and actually feel needy and incomplete without the other person or is it simply about not getting supply?

And while at it, could someone explain jealousy in general to me again? Is there a difference between a jealous narc and a jealous non?

I don´t mean to be generalizing so if it sounded like I was, I apologize. Currently I still don´t know much about narcissistic behaviour (only from experience without the background anyway) and I´d like to change that. So please answer in detail so I really understand all of what you say -- if you don´t mind, that is.

-Camelidae

Narcissists have a generalized control issue. They feel secure when they are totally in control of everything in their lives. Coupled with their boundary issues, they sort of own or engulf the people in their lives. The two issues frequently coalesce and result in this form of family control that you refer to as jealousy. In your case all the family members are an extension of the father. He will be feeling his safety is threatened when any of you are gone. It is not like true jealousy. I believe true jealousy would be when the relationship is threatened by another person. There would be anger and resentment at the potential loss of the relationship.

With your father, your mother triggered this fear of a lack of control merely by going out. Your father at his core would like to control the ocean current. He recognizes he can't but so fears this failure. He believes he can put you all in a boat and paddle himself to keep you all safe. He feels safe and responsible when he has secured the boat. At his core he believes in a world where no one cares.

Can you imagine what he must have gone through when you all left home? He would have been internally fragmented at his core. He had organized his life around controlling what you all did. It was that desperate fear that made him call so many times. You would have triggered a disintegation of his belief system.

It is not an easy road living with narcissism. When you can predict their behaviour and understand core beliefs it seems easier.

margharris wrote: At his core he believes in a world where no one cares.

What do you mean by that? How is it related to control issues?

Can you imagine what he must have gone through when you all left home?

Yes, absolutely. I struggle with this very thing myself. Falling apart describes it very well. Being or feeling helpless and out of control is one of the worst, most hurtful feelings.

He had organized his life around controlling what you all did.

What for?

It is not an easy road living with narcissism. When you can predict their behaviour and understand core beliefs it seems easier.

That´s why I am asking questions.

Thank you for your reply. You seem insightful. Are you a narc yourself or a mental health professional? Family member, friend or acquaintance of one, hobby psychologist..?

He doesnt see the boundary between you and him. You are an extension of him. For him to feel safe and reduce his anxiety he tries to control you. His core needs are to keep you safe so he will be safe.

At the inception of his personality life wasn't safe. He learnt to believe in a world of the careless. Letting you go into this carelessness space would be like seeing you throw yourself into the ocean. Into that ocean he knows he can never control.

He is a narcissist. He doesn't realize life controls itself and he only can control himself. He has to trust life to in someway take care of you. That trust isn't there because he believes in a careless world. These false beliefs form the structure of his life. He could have easily interpreted what you were doing as attacking him. His response to your leaving was in equal proportion to the fragmenting of his internal landscape. So he keeps close whatever he can control to survive himself.

I did a lot of years working with OCD. Total immersion approach so lots of psych work reading. Narc mother and DIL sparked recent interest. Empath.

margharris wrote:He doesnt see the boundary between you and him.

But why?

It is narcissism.
Imagine he was a little baby and his careless mother didn't come when he cried. He cried and cried for a hand to feed him. Then finally she came. He thought this was his hand that finally fed him. He internalizes his need for his mother as more important than his own need. He needed to learn to control her as though she was his own arm, so he internalized that need and organized his personality around it as a priority. He learnt to act and manipulate in order to better control his mother and survive. This is his primary bonding experience. He just repeats the experience with each person he has to relate to.

Oh, yeah, thanks. I relate to that. I don´t think I´m narcissistic though. Could it be part of of normal behaviour or other disorders as well?

I forgot: What´s an Empath? Simply someone empathetic? Is it some sort of official term?

Everyone can become jealous given the right circumstances. Once you see someone as your rival, taking something or doing something that you feel is yours... cutting your grass. Then a jealous response is normal. It is the degree or form that this jealousy takes that determines whether it is pathological. If someone takes your girl you will naturally be jealous. You have lost something. How you handle the jealous feeling is where problems start. Any person with a bit of instability can get out of balance with jealousy in the mix. Jealousy can really get crazy and obsessive. All sorts of people can get unstuck over jealousy. Perhaps a BPD or HPD might be more inclined. No evidence really just a hunch.

So why the interest in jealousy now?

Empaths: Just a few experiences out of the ordinary. Sensitive,intuitive spectrum but no crystal ball.

Usually you´d think jealousy is proof of someone´s feelings for you. I was wondering if the same was true for narcs who are said to be incapable of love towards people. I find myself drawn to people acting in similiar ways to my father and re-enacting situations with them so I thought it might be a good idea to read up on as much as I possibly can, including jealousy since that is an essential part of my father´s behaviour.

I have to admit that I can relate to what you wrote about control issues quite a bit and generally are similiar to my father in some ways. No raging, sense of grandiosity or envy with material things, blaming ect for me, but I do have control issues, find myself faking things quite a bit and get jealous if people (even ones I don´t know well or at all really) are unavailable if I need them emotionally. Jealous as in feeling desperate, depressed, anxious, needy and worthless. That´s why I was asking to what an extent it was normal? I was referring to what you described as falling apart rather than being jealous for a reason in general.

Any tips or ideas? Also on gravitating towards this type of person.

Camelidae wrote:Usually you´d think jealousy is proof of someone´s feelings for you. I was wondering if the same was true for narcs who are said to be incapable of love towards people. I find myself drawn to people acting in similiar ways to my father and re-enacting situations with them so I thought it might be a good idea to read up on as much as I possibly can, including jealousy since that is an essential part of my father´s behaviour.

I do think your father's behaviour showed he cared even if it isn't the sort of behaviour you would want. I think from your perspective you might have also experienced rivalry and competition for your father's attention and this might have contributed to you sensing it as jealousy. It might have been jealousy on your part. Trying to reach an unavailable parent creates a lot of internal emotion.

Camelidae wrote: Jealous as in feeling desperate, depressed, anxious, needy and worthless. That´s why I was asking to what an extent it was normal? I was referring to what you described as falling apart rather than being jealous for a reason in general.

I am really glad you explained your jealousy. I would have seen it as anger or fear because I would have linked it to control and power. You are linking it to more like abandonment and lack of emotional connect. This is most likely how you felt with the relationship with your father. It is like you had belief in him saving you but there was always an, if only, to excuse his failure.

I do think we recreate our past trauma to help heal ourselves. We are drawn to people who have the same type of energy we grew up with. I think a lot of reasons all work towards us feeling at home with people who connect with our blueprint. Some of us do a lot of hurdling in life. Imagine a family of huggers, who would do anything for you. Immediate reaction... uncomfortable. It so shouldn't be like that but I do think it is.

Looking at the background you have, it is likely you will check out people for their emotional availability. If they become focused on work, you are likely to read that they don't care about you. It is something to know about yourself. No one person can meet all our emotional needs. When you are emotionally needy, you need a team approach to get life to work. If your partner is a bit off the radar, then you go to a friend or parent,or sibling and that should be OK. Sometimes people don't realize how much stuff their partner is trying to work on or how limited their partner is to help. (The men are from Mars book is worth a read)
With maturity you learn to meet your own emotional needs and keep your balance and calm better so you are less needy.