I just wanted to share this

link:

http://research.similarminds.com/tag/covert-narcissism

What do you guys think?

I thought it was especially helpful because it proposes a new method of dealing with unhealthy narcissism that's akin to what a lot of us here on this board are doing already: introspection and self analysis (leading to the development of an internal self). Also the concept of general population mirroring (ordinary narcissism) was interesting.
I've never read an opinion on narcissism like this... it's great I think. There needs to be more literature like this. With suggestions for moving away from unhealthy narcissism to a more balanced lifestyle.

Mad_world, thanks for that article. I'm sorry to say anything negative, but there were a couple of things in it that I couldn't really identify with. (I've got narcissistic traits, rather than npd.) There was a part about narcissists feeling empty because they couldn't find others like themselves to mirror them, wasn't there? I don't think that my emptiness comes from that, although I could be wrong. There's just no emotion, so no opinions, interests, feelings for others. There was something else, what was it?.........It was the part at the end about how to improve, by concentrating on things that you actually like doing, which aren't about the impression given to others. But us narcissists don't seem to really enjoy doing very much - because of that lack of emotion.
But I found the article interesting, especially the part about self actualism, which is a great state to aspire to, as the antithesis of narcissism. The author had some good insights, for instance the opinion that normal narcissists (i.e. just normal people) don't have true autonomy either, but depend on their similarity to others for their sense of identity.

I didn't read it all, but he seems to use the word narcissist very broadly, and not in the narrow psychological sense. I know what he is referring to though, and he has some good insights that may apply to some NPD. Not sure how practical it is, since it is speculations.

nine wrote:There was a part about narcissists feeling empty because they couldn't find others like themselves to mirror them, wasn't there? I don't think that my emptiness comes from that, although I could be wrong. There's just no emotion, so no opinions, interests, feelings for others. There was something else, what was it?.........It was the part at the end about how to improve, by concentrating on things that you actually like doing, which aren't about the impression given to others. But us narcissists don't seem to really enjoy doing very much - because of that lack of emotion.

No emotions, like at all?

Everyone has some emotion don't they, even if it's basic and not directed to other people

mad_world wrote:

nine wrote:There was a part about narcissists feeling empty because they couldn't find others like themselves to mirror them, wasn't there? I don't think that my emptiness comes from that, although I could be wrong. There's just no emotion, so no opinions, interests, feelings for others. There was something else, what was it?.........It was the part at the end about how to improve, by concentrating on things that you actually like doing, which aren't about the impression given to others. But us narcissists don't seem to really enjoy doing very much - because of that lack of emotion.

No emotions, like at all?

Most of the time, no emotion at all.

OneLiner wrote:Most of the time, no emotion at all.

Hm okay, I've read about that before. Makes sense as narcissists aren't deeply attached to anything. But how can you go from no emotion or attachment to feeling attached and emotionally towards things in your life? That should really be the main focus of treatment for a narcissist.

OneLiner wrote:I didn't read it all, but he seems to use the word narcissist very broadly, and not in the narrow psychological sense. I know what he is referring to though, and he has some good insights that may apply to some NPD. Not sure how practical it is, since it is speculations.

What's the broad sense of the word as opposed to the narrow psychological sense?

mad_world wrote:Hm okay, I've read about that before. Makes sense as narcissists aren't deeply attached to anything. But how can you go from no emotion or attachment to feeling attached and emotionally towards things in your life? That should really be the main focus of treatment for a narcissist.

That would be the outcome desired. The problem is that in order for those emotions not to be fake, there has to be feelings behind, and I don't think nobody ever designed a therapy that is able to give feelings. But I did not look into that too much yet. You can get attached to things, but not for long. It is like someone who learns by one ear and forget the next minute, but instead of knowledge, we are talking about feelings. We know how to teach knowledge and logic, but not feelings and emotions, AFAIK.

mad_world wrote:

OneLiner wrote:I didn't read it all, but he seems to use the word narcissist very broadly, and not in the narrow psychological sense. I know what he is referring to though, and he has some good insights that may apply to some NPD. Not sure how practical it is, since it is speculations.

What's the broad sense of the word as opposed to the narrow psychological sense?

The guy in the essay did not define his term, but my guess is that he is talking about some sort of sense of belonging, or need for recognition. Something like that.
The psychological sense, is a bunch of traits that may not all be there. You can find those in the DSM IV. It is only the name of a diagnosis, more than something discrete by nature. It is like the names of colors, in some sense, they are arbitrary categories on the spectrum of a wave.

Mad_world, I take your point about emotions, but it's as oneliner said - I might feel mild emotions, but they don't last long, and often there really isn't anything there, beneath the acting. The author does still make some good points, though. There's a woman at work who fits the description of a self actualiser to a tee, not remotely interested in external rewards or appearances, and just quietly doing her own thing, and I've always said that I wish that I could be like her, calm and unconcerned, but commited to what she does. Interesting to realise that she's at the opposite end of that bell curve.

Except that I would probably be considered a self-actualizer, and I still don't have feelings.
It might be good for an extrovert to become more introvert, and vice versa. I had that theory as well. But is is not the total solution, I think. I liked the link to touch therapy NEX gave in another thread though. I wonder of that would not work. It is something I had considered as well.

Although the author was well-intentioned, she missed used the term Narcissist in its original, non-PD, context. When you read Horney and many other earlier Theorists, they used Narcissist to explain a "lifestyle" and not a PD. This gives the effect of making the article loaded as readers are thinking of the PD.

The second error is much more critical. The article seems to assume that "normal" and "healthy" lifestyles are synonymous, although it is quite common within the field of Psychology...and its nothing but folly. The point of treating any client is to alleviate the emotional pain of the individual (while optimizing their assets, but that's just my take).

When it comes to PD's this drastically turned on its head. The wording of the PD's revolves around broken social norms, and its irrelevant if anyone is harmed (like the SPD case, shrinks still s*t on them for being asocial).

So, instead of the perfectly rational assumption that maybe, just maybe, a recovering Narcissist can be well-adjusted yet have difference even after the working out the quarks that held her back...that Narcissists experience, what I'll call "emotional plasticity" that cannot be reversed is beyond their grasp.

Just from my experience, when a person with a PD works out her psychological quarks that cause self-harm the person becomes more aligned with society. That's completely different than assuming that if a PD person acted like a normal person that she would become normal. Its been done, and its called manipulation/lying/passing/etc...it doesn't work.