Is everything fake?

Hello everybody,

I’ve recently been diagnosed with NPD. For now, I don’t really feel anything about this other than “Hm yeah, that makes a lot of sense”/”This has answered quite a few question”, and generally not many emotions. A bit of… relief? If that makes sense. I mean, I finally found a missing piece of the puzzle that is me, to sound overly dramatic. There are some things about me that I’ve never understood. Why I reacted that way, or why certain situations made me feel this way.

After looking up information, several new questions popped up in my head. Of course. Puzzle ain’t finished yet.

Emotions. I know I’m not able to feel emotions like healthy people do. However, my rage, for example, is pretty strong. Over the years, I’ve managed to keep the rage mostly inside of me.
I know that my late cat was the most important being in my life. His death hurt me more than my mother’s suicide.
There are things I like, things that make me happy. Music, for example.

When it comes to people I do lack empathy. At first I thought “lack of empathy” wouldn’t apply to me, because I do feel something negative when something bad happens. It’s like the ghost of an emotion. For example, I have a friend in Japan. She lives in Sendai, the place that got hit the hardest by the earthquake. When something terrible happens, then I do feel something. I don’t really have a word for it, other than it being strangely cold and numbing. However, I feel nothing when someone is just sad about something.

Question: Are people like us really capable of learning what we never learnt when we were children; i.e. being able to feel? Isn’t it more likely that we will just reconstruct our mechanisms and keep mirroring what we think we should feel?
If a tree gets planted where there is a lot of sun, it will grow large and strong. If a tree gets planted where there is a lot of shadow, it won’t grow well, look crippled, and never grow like that other tree, even if the thing shadowing it from the sun will be torn down.
What I mean is, we never learnt something that is essential to human children, is needed for them to grow properly.


Relationships. I have never been in a relationship. I cannot stand people touching me. It gives me a much stronger version of that feeling I mentioned above.
I have never enjoyed sex, just did it to prove something to myself, or in hopes to finally be able to enjoy it because my libido won’t stop pestering me. I try to keep it down via masturbation, and that does feel nice, but it doesn’t suffice in the end.

I have not learnt to feel. The chances of me ever learning to feel? I don’t see them as particularly good, considering I’m already 28. Applying rational thinking tells me that I will not have a relationship in the future or be able to let someone touch me and enjoy it.

Is there a fellow narc here who can relate to that?
The frustration caused by my body craving for something that always leaves me disgusted afterward is massive. It feeds the rage.


“True” and “False” Self?
We develop mechanisms. But is everything fake?
Again, I know what I like. I know what I hate. I won’t lie to someone who has a differing opinion. I don’t hide my likes or hates.
My cat was very important to me. I felt a deep connection to him. There are a few people where I believe that it’s not just about getting my “narcissistic supply”.



Thank you for reading.

trooperoftomorrow wrote:After looking up information, several new questions popped up in my head. Of course. Puzzle ain’t finished yet.

ok

trooperoftomorrow wrote:I know that my late cat was the most important being in my life. His death hurt me more than my mother’s suicide.

this doesnt seem quite right.

trooperoftomorrow wrote:There are things I like, things that make me happy. Music, for example.

thats a plus. something to do.

trooperoftomorrow wrote:When it comes to people I do lack empathy. At first I thought “lack of empathy” wouldn’t apply to me, because I do feel something negative when something bad happens. It’s like the ghost of an emotion. For example, I have a friend in Japan. She lives in Sendai, the place that got hit the hardest by the earthquake. When something terrible happens, then I do feel something. I don’t really have a word for it, other than it being strangely cold and numbing. However, I feel nothing when someone is just sad about something.

well, normal humans feel bad when something happens to others (of their group) as if it happened to them. most humans extend this to all humanity, depending on the specifics of the tragedy and the state of political/religious alignment.

trooperoftomorrow wrote:Question: Are people like us really capable of learning what we never learnt when we were children; i.e. being able to feel? Isn’t it more likely that we will just reconstruct our mechanisms and keep mirroring what we think we should feel?

empathy is just an instinctual/genetic mechanism for encouraging the individual to perform acts that may be personally illogical, that is sacrifice your own desires for others in the group.

trooperoftomorrow wrote:What I mean is, we never learnt something that is essential to human children, is needed for them to grow properly.

along with the disadvantages, perhaps there are also advantages.

trooperoftomorrow wrote:My cat was very important to me. I felt a deep connection to him. There are a few people where I believe that it’s not just about getting my “narcissistic supply”. Thank you for reading.

you're so polite and logical. why dont you visit the schizoid forum. you never know, maybe you got misdiagnosed!

marycarterpaint wrote:

trooperoftomorrow wrote:I know that my late cat was the most important being in my life. His death hurt me more than my mother’s suicide.

this doesnt seem quite right.

Why?
The cat has been with me for much longer than any human being ever has.

marycarterpaint wrote:along with the disadvantages, perhaps there are also advantages.

There always is an advantage to something. No broken hearts for me, no relationships that ended badly. Nothing comes in negatives only.

trooperoftomorrow wrote:Hello everybody,

I’ve recently been diagnosed with NPD. For now, I don’t really feel anything about this other than “Hm yeah, that makes a lot of sense”/”This has answered quite a few question”, and generally not many emotions. A bit of… relief? If that makes sense. I mean, I finally found a missing piece of the puzzle that is me, to sound overly dramatic. There are some things about me that I’ve never understood. Why I reacted that way, or why certain situations made me feel this way.

After looking up information, several new questions popped up in my head. Of course. Puzzle ain’t finished yet.

Emotions. I know I’m not able to feel emotions like healthy people do. However, my rage, for example, is pretty strong. Over the years, I’ve managed to keep the rage mostly inside of me.
I know that my late cat was the most important being in my life. His death hurt me more than my mother’s suicide.
There are things I like, things that make me happy. Music, for example.

When it comes to people I do lack empathy. At first I thought “lack of empathy” wouldn’t apply to me, because I do feel something negative when something bad happens. It’s like the ghost of an emotion. For example, I have a friend in Japan. She lives in Sendai, the place that got hit the hardest by the earthquake. When something terrible happens, then I do feel something. I don’t really have a word for it, other than it being strangely cold and numbing. However, I feel nothing when someone is just sad about something.

Question: Are people like us really capable of learning what we never learnt when we were children; i.e. being able to feel? Isn’t it more likely that we will just reconstruct our mechanisms and keep mirroring what we think we should feel?
If a tree gets planted where there is a lot of sun, it will grow large and strong. If a tree gets planted where there is a lot of shadow, it won’t grow well, look crippled, and never grow like that other tree, even if the thing shadowing it from the sun will be torn down.
What I mean is, we never learnt something that is essential to human children, is needed for them to grow properly.


Relationships. I have never been in a relationship. I cannot stand people touching me. It gives me a much stronger version of that feeling I mentioned above.
I have never enjoyed sex, just did it to prove something to myself, or in hopes to finally be able to enjoy it because my libido won’t stop pestering me. I try to keep it down via masturbation, and that does feel nice, but it doesn’t suffice in the end.

I have not learnt to feel. The chances of me ever learning to feel? I don’t see them as particularly good, considering I’m already 28. Applying rational thinking tells me that I will not have a relationship in the future or be able to let someone touch me and enjoy it.

Is there a fellow narc here who can relate to that?
The frustration caused by my body craving for something that always leaves me disgusted afterward is massive. It feeds the rage.


“True” and “False” Self?
We develop mechanisms. But is everything fake?
Again, I know what I like. I know what I hate. I won’t lie to someone who has a differing opinion. I don’t hide my likes or hates.
My cat was very important to me. I felt a deep connection to him. There are a few people where I believe that it’s not just about getting my “narcissistic supply”.



Thank you for reading.

For starters, well done for actually posting on here - it's a good forum with lots of insight between narcs/nons/PON and they're a brilliant group of guys and gals (new poster, but still - compliment ). You've recognised that it's a relief knowing that you have NPD, because it can, to an extent, explain why you can react a bit differently to other people. That within itself shows that you have some self-awareness and it's a really good thing to have - lots of people with NPD don't even get to this stage, they press on life as normal and fail to see their maladaptive behaviours are destructive not only to themselves, but to others too.

Yeah, it's lot like a puzzle - it's not completed, but to be more aware and to understand will take lots of time and (from reading posts on here), it can be a pretty emotional experience too - you're 28 and still have lots of time in your life to at least understand your own maladaptive behaviours and change them.

Empathy is a hard one, because it's entirely different on everybody - some people naturally have more empathy than overs and vice versa. So coming up and looking for a standard definition of empathy is virtually impossible. But you feel some sort of emotion (and you said it was cold and numbing), which would mean you have some sort of empathy towards your friend. I'm the same - If anything happened to my friends, I'd be gutted. Same goes with being happy as well, if you enjoy your music then by all means it shows you have emotions.

Question: Are people like us really capable of learning what we never learnt when we were children; i.e. being able to feel? Isn’t it more likely that we will just reconstruct our mechanisms and keep mirroring what we think we should feel?

Again, it's really hard to say - in terms of research, there isn't really that much in terms of NPD (blame the big ol' pharmaceutical companies - PD's can't be treated with meds and therefore they really couldn't give a rats, cos they make the £££), but there is a number of individuals (on this forum and elsewhere) that claim they don't suffer NPD anymore. As well, NPD can be 'co morbid' - it can exist with another condition, especially other personality disorders and because of how broad the DSM-IV is, it's often pretty hard to diagnose somebody with a personality disorder. However, like any other mental illness/disorder it can't really be "fully" cured - you can learn and control behaviours, but the original underlying problem will still exist. Even coming to terms with the underlying problem can be hard, because it's been subconsciously ingrained into us for so long. It ties in with the lack of research, meaning the lack of evident treatment and therefore lacking a prognosis that looks good. Not so long ago BPD was considered untreatable, but nowadays it is considered treatable - medical advances mean things might change in the right direction.

I'm the opposite, I enjoy receiving hugs/kisses/sex and really, really enjoy being in a relationship but that could be my own narcissistic supply. It can differ from person to person and because I'm only one person (I've not been diagnosed with NPD btw, but almost adamant that it's NPD-related), I don't have everybody elses opinion. Perhaps other N's on this forum can help you on this.

I see where you're coming from, because I'm the same - spent a good couple of years wondering why I didn't really fit in with a lot of things and why I would be so selfish nearly all the time and not recognise other peoples feelings and emotions. It's almost like an epiphany, apart from being able to change - things still seem as bad as what they were, but you've got to hope for the best. There isn't any quick fix for NPD, unfortunately.

(apologies if posted presumtions/crap)

trooperoftomorrow wrote:

marycarterpaint wrote:

trooperoftomorrow wrote:I know that my late cat was the most important being in my life. His death hurt me more than my mother’s suicide.

this doesnt seem quite right.

Why?
The cat has been with me for much longer than any human being ever has.

it might be expected that your mother would have a unique place among the group 'any human being' in your own thoughts. while this still doesnt rule out unique place, it does seem to leave her and all humanity beneath your cat. I guess thats good enough.

and on the bright side, it sounds like you had a great cat!

trooperoftomorrow wrote:

marycarterpaint wrote:along with the disadvantages, perhaps there are also advantages.

There always is an advantage to something... Nothing comes in negatives only.

no, thanks for the double negative, but still no.

tomster wrote:Again, it's really hard to say - in terms of research, there isn't really that much in terms of NPD (blame the big ol' pharmaceutical companies - PD's can't be treated with meds.

individuals with PD may find meds useful in treating their symptoms.

likely that the genes for NPD and every other disorder should be known in ten or twenty years, and that should allow the 'real' disorders and the associated genes for each to be clustered and identified. It will be a relief to dispense with the psychiatric flimflam (pardon my french). what man does with this knowledge is difficult to see, and the potential for misuse, obvious.

tomster wrote:There isn't any quick fix for NPD, unfortunately.

probably true.

To Tomster:

I've read that something critical must happen for an NPD to seek help. That certainly applies to me. The last situation of that kind made me force myself to get help. Actively seeking help finally sounded less shameful to me. Over the years, people have told me to get help. I never listened. I have co-morbid depression (comes in episodes), caused by my narcissism, as well as anxiety attacks out of the blue. And some other stuff. This therapist was the first I did not judge. She used the right words, didn't come across like those I'd seen before.

I just hope that I will be able to remember this clarity when my next round of superiority or depression hits me. It would be a first.



To marycarterpaint:

I don't like your tone.
You sound condescending (I may have misread your tone as such because I don't like it).
You make assumptions without knowing the facts (this one I certainly did not misread).
Your sarcasm was noted.
From here on, I will ignore your posts.

Do not waste any more words on me. This does not include comments made by others.

trooperoftomorrow wrote:To marycarterpaint:

I don't like your tone.
You sound condescending (I may have misread your tone as such because I don't like it).
You make assumptions without knowing the facts (this one I certainly did not misread).
Your sarcasm was noted.
From here on, I will ignore your posts.

Do not waste any more words on me. This does not include comments made by others.

why would you?
i am.
which assumption was not based in fact?
excellent.
not likely.

i do as i please, and that does not please me yet. ok, thanks!

trooperoftomorrow wrote:I’ve recently been diagnosed with NPD. For now, I don’t really feel anything about this other than “Hm yeah, that makes a lot of sense”/”This has answered quite a few question”, and generally not many emotions.

Awareness happens slowly. As time goes on, you'll probably start to recognize more of your behavior.

I know that my late cat was the most important being in my life. His death hurt me more than my mother’s suicide.

I can relate to this - I haven't spoken to my father in a decade, but the thought of losing my cats is....nauseating, to say the least.Also, as a note, most of us seem to have much more intact empathy with pets, music, objects, than with human beings.

When it comes to people I do lack empathy. At first I thought “lack of empathy” wouldn’t apply to me, because I do feel something negative when something bad happens. It’s like the ghost of an emotion.

With most of the Cluster Bs, there seems to be a "range" of empathy, or even a "dysfunctional empathy", rather than just a lack of one. So this makes sense.

Question: Are people like us really capable of learning what we never learnt when we were children; i.e. being able to feel? Isn’t it more likely that we will just reconstruct our mechanisms and keep mirroring what we think we should feel?

The second question explains why so few of us ever get better, or even notice anything it wrong. I've been on that cycle for years. I'm roughly the same age as you, and feeling the same kind of, er, lack of optimism. Brains are pretty dynamic, though - I'm sure it's possible for us grow what we failed to as children. How to do it? Well, I'm not so sure there. All I know is it takes a LOT of time.

Is there a fellow narc here who can relate to that?
The frustration caused by my body craving for something that always leaves me disgusted afterward is massive. It feeds the rage.

I can sort of relate.... Not with sex in particular, but with a lot of other activities - I seem to yearn for them and crave them, but then they don't satisfy what they were suppose to, and just leave emptiness and frustration and disgust. (Well, I suppose sex does that too, actually...but I've had awareness for a while now that I just do it for the endorphins, so maybe I'm expecting less.)

We develop mechanisms. But is everything fake?

No, not everything is fake. There's different levels. Saying there is a "true" and a "false" self is an oversimplification that unfortunately has pervaded the language of NPD...

Also, just ignore marycarterpaint, he's had a bug up his bum lately.

undenied wrote:Also, just ignore marycarterpaint, he's had a bug up his bum lately.

good advice.

sorry to have been so rude to your budding narc. I have suffered some shocks to the system of the 'know thyself' variety recently, and I'm still working out an appropriate adaptive strategy.

but thats no excuse for rudeness!