friends vs acquantences

Here's a question for you normals: what's friendship like?
I tried googling "Friendship for Dummies". It seems like with the thousands of Dummies books out there someone would have written that one... but nope.

I've always kinda thought I had friends, but I don't really think I do. I have acquaintances, contacts, and a wife.
The confusion is the informalization of modern society and the general breaking down of traditional boundaries. Coworkers go out drinking and doing activities together. People have really personal conversations with strangers that would have been unthinkable in decades past. The fact that I sometimes participate in social activities with people I see regularly could easily appear to be friendship on the surface. Most of my acquaintences who I'm friendly with I could say hi to on the street, engage in conversation for a while, ask about their interests and careers and people we know in common and other things I know about them. I enjoy their company and I think they enjoy mine as well, I'm not exploiting or hurting them in any kind of narcissistic way that I'm aware of, except maybe to collect some attention (which doesn't really hurt anyone). If Facebook is to be believed, I could even put a lower bound on the quantity of friends I have.
But there's something missing that I think would really characterize friendship. My concern about their welfare is genuine but shallow. They are fairly interchangeable, if I saw a movie with one friend or another it wouldn't really make that much difference except to change the tone of the conversation. Attention is just "supply" even if it's not exploitative. Even with people whom I've gotten drunk with and exchanged pretty personal stories, there isn't a deep connection.
The only people who I've ever really felt close to are immediate family, ex-girlfriends and my wife. That's something else entirely and that's the only way I've ever been comfortable getting close to someone.

So what's in between? If I enjoyed talking to someone and asked them to be my friend, and I didn't think they were interchangable and I didn't just want attention or "supply", my next question would be, "great! now what?" I have no idea, but I'm going to want to work on trying to cultivate some friendships as part of trying to overcome my narcissism. Since normal people usually do have real friends I'm hoping you folks can provide some insight.

I can see this question is way too general? People could probably write books. People probably have, anyone know of one I could pick up?

Here's a different question, about basic social graces. I need to learn the rules that everyone else already knows. For example: "Asking favors 101".
I love asking for favors. When is it appropriate? When is it not appropriate? How often? What's expected in return? Is the right answer "as little as possible?" Or can judicious use of favor asking strengthen rather than burden a friendship? Curious minds want to know. I was thinking about this when someone was writing about how her ex asked a neighbor for a ride to the airport and how embarrassed she was. I didn't get what was the big deal. If the neighbor had something better to do they could say no. If they said yes, they might enjoy the conversation (and perhaps being owed a favor in return?)

So what's in between? If I enjoyed talking to someone and asked them to be my friend, and I didn't think they were interchangable and I didn't just want attention or "supply", my next question would be, "great! now what?" I have no idea, but I'm going to want to work on trying to cultivate some friendships as part of trying to overcome my narcissism. Since normal people usually do have real friends I'm hoping you folks can provide some insight

I know I said I wasn't going to answer this, sfguy, but I changed my mind. I'll at least start a reply, because, frankly, I COULD write a book on this. But I lead a group in one hour and don't have time so I'll limit my response to just one point:

One of the salient points of friendship is caring. You care about a friend. There is caring there. They are not interchangable because you care.. about them... for who they are... for their 'uniqueness' with you... for something they give to you (the intangibles of friendship), and something you find you can give to them. There is a concern that develops that does not come out of a primarily selfish motivation; there's an element of altruism. Between friends, there is a value exchange, a reciprocity, that exceeds just the surface stuff that they can do for you; it's deeper than that. You like your friend for her own special qualities, without trying to impose your own view of how and who she needs to be to satisfy you. You care. Truly, when all the words are said and done, it's as simple as that. With a friend.... you simply care.
That's why friendships are so wonderful, so rich, so life-giving, so enriching. That's also why they are a bit scary too. Friends can hurt friends, again, because you care. That's why we need to pick our friends well. Ahhh, the art of friend-picking... another chapter in my book!

If someone refuses to care, then they will always be without true real friends. And they'll devalue the value of friendship!

Hey Sfguy - that's an interesting question.

I've thought about this a lot over the years because I've spent a lot of time single and my friends have become very important. But I remember reaching a stage where I didn't catch up with them as much as I wanted because there were so many (I hope that doesn't sound arrogant - I think I make friends easily and I think, generally people tend to get along with me well). So I decided to concentrate on the 5 or 6 people who I really cared about, and who cared about me, and to put my time and energy into them rather than having a lot of friendships that were more (for want of a better word) 'shallow'.

This has resulted in some really great relationships and I know I could call on these people any time for anything. They are absolutely vital to me and their wellbeing is paramount. The way I would define it is that I would rather any of these friends were successful or rich or happy - or whatever they wanted to be - than I was myself. That's the only way I can think of to describe how I feel about them?

So - consistency (and I suppose what I am saying really is authenticity) is key to feeling that you know someone, that they are a friend? If you could do this with just one person maybe it would be a start?

Such a simple question, yet so difficult to answer.

I just came back from a 140 mile round-trip. I drove up there to give a little girl a present for her 5th birthday. I've been friends with her dad for 20 years. Granted, 140 miles may not be much to some folks, but I hardly ever go out of my way for people. Hell, I don't even give gifts to my spoiled nephews. Yet, every year, I drive up there to hand deliver her gift at Christmas and her birthday. Why? I can't explain why. It's difficult to put into words.

But when you have a true friend, you just know it. And, to me, there are no "favors" between friends. Have I ever helped him? Yes. Has he ever helped me? Yes. But they're not "favors". Perhaps it's because there is no scorecard between true friends.

But if you really want to know who's a friend, get locked up and see who visits you.

Incorrigible wrote:Why? I can't explain why. It's difficult to put into words.

So it's sort of like an unexplainable feeling that you want to do anything to help them out and make their life better? But how do you know it's worth it and you're not being exploited? If you don't do that for someone does that mean you aren't friends? What if the idea of doing something nice sounds appealing but somehow you never remember or get around to it?

Sorry I know these questions sound kinda weird and stupid, I mean I sound like I've been living in a cave with a bag over my head and never seen a human before. It's not like that, of course I've read plenty of literature and watched lots of movies, and had relationships that I would have called friends in the past... but I feel like I'm sort of reframing my entire life so concepts I've always thought I knew and took for granted maybe aren't what I always thought they were. It's hard to explain exactly what's the actual question I want answered, I guess I'm trying to figure out what's the difference between "real" friendship and the concept I've always thought of as friendship. But nobody could understand that question without being inside my head, so... I'm at a loss to ask the question properly. If you asked me what friendship was I would use words like loyalty and honesty and caring... but based on experience I would also have to add words like difficult, confusing, and temporary which has never seemed like the way it's supposed to be.

Incorrigible wrote:But if you really want to know who's a friend, get locked up and see who visits you.

I'm a free man and nobody visits me. Sometimes I invite people over and they accept but they always cancel at the last minute or just don't show up. If people don't like me I wish they would just say so, I could use the feedback, I hate feeling invisible and unimportant. They always seem to pretend to like me when I'm around, it's just so confusing.

sfguy75x wrote:But how do you know it's worth it and you're not being exploited?

Well you don't really. I know with certainty that my close friends don't exploit me. But if I was to meet a new friend I wouldn't I suppose.

The thing is though it wouldn't matter. I'd give someone the benefit of the doubt and I'd just be myself. Were they to exploit me I'd walk away. I wouldn't have 'lost' anything. They would though.

I remember reading something on this site once - that you know people by their actions and not by their words. It shocked me a bit at first because I think I must take things at face value all the time and when someone says something to me I just accept that it's true. But you would know from someone's actions (eventually) if they were being exploitative?

Do you trust anyone - or have even one friend that you feel would be honest with you? Ask them - ask them if it is difficult being your friend and why? Maybe they will see things you don't see yourself?

Normal? wrote:I'd give someone the benefit of the doubt and I'd just be myself.

That works for someone like you who is a nice person. Being myself means being self-centered, arrogant, and insecure. It's a guarantee for failure. I have to hide it.

Normal? wrote:Were they to exploit me I'd walk away. I wouldn't have 'lost' anything. They would though.

Indeed I understand, and practice that sentiment. The problem is that applying it I end up walking away from everyone.

Normal? wrote:or have even one friend that you feel would be honest with you? Ask them - ask them if it is difficult being your friend and why?

Nobody except my wife and I know she thinks I'm difficult. I suppose it's not that difficult to figure out, people don't like narcissists, especially the ones without a good charm-mask. It's also self-reinforcing. I've been thinking back and I didn't used to daydream about power and wealth too much. I really didn't think about that kind of stuff in high school and college, I just wanted friends and ordinary relationships. My narcissism has increased over time as a reaction to finding people so confusing and frustrating. I gave up on making friends the more frustrated and hurt I felt by the ones I already had. I decided if I couldn't relate with people the normal way I would start figuring out how to buy and control them instead. I've pretty much given up on that too, I mostly just gave up on dealing with people altogether until recently.

Well, I don't think thats necessarily true. I can be self-centred, arrogant and insecure at times. I can also be witty, kind and intelligent at others. My friends accept that. Sometimes they even pull me up on the self-centred arrogant thing.

You may know what/who you think you are. They may feel differently. You could at least give them the chance to decide for themselves? They may see things you don't.

Friendships take effort. They take my time and my energy. They can sometimes be inconvenient. I must put myself aside fairly often for my friends. That is why I have only 2 friends who are like sisters to me and with whom I've been friends for over 20 years. They are the two into whom I pour myself. They know me inside and out, and I them.

I have other friends whom I share and care with, but not to consistently or quite so deeply. If I were to quantify, maybe 10 might fit this category. There are others who wish to be my friend and come closer, but I don't have the time to sustain more friendships. As I said, friendships take time. But the rewards make the time/effort spent so worthwhile.

Then I have many acquaintances. These are people with whom I'm friendly and they tend to come and go.

My basic personality is introverted. That is, being with people tends to drain me. After being with people (especially if it is lots of people), I need to get away and get alone to restore my batteries. For extroverts, it is the opposite - being with people energizes them and fills them up. As a more introverted personality, I probably can't sustain as many friendships as can extroverts. For me, 2 intimate friendships, and 5-10 close friends are more than enough.

There was a time where I thought close friendships were unnecessary, maybe even a hindrance. My mother had schooled me well. While I didn't use people as my mother did, I chose to just ignore them (and created lots of justifications about why that was a good thing to do). I only had one friend in those years, and that is a credit to her, not to me, because I was a lousy friend. It's hard (impossible?) to be a good friend when you are self-focused and all about you.