The Remorseless

by **kaloya123** » Sun Oct 29, 2017 2:06 pm

curiousjane wrote:Having no regard for other people's feelings or opinions is not what motivates your behavior. I think it is in fact a reaction to how much you actually care about other's opinions.

Of course, I suppress my anger and rage - I always make sure that others wouldn't notice these emotions, but internally they are always there.

Midwinter wrote:There seems to be mass confusion as to how the narcissistic structure really behaves. Let me try to clarify it for you.

The narcissistic personality structure is in need of admiration/validation. That is correct.

However, there is a difference between needing this, and not caring about others opinions. The narcissist will not feel the need to depend on peoples opinions like the histrionic would. He is always seeking to be free of others, yet his bane his that he needs admiration to fuel himself.

This forms itself as a paradoxical behaviour, where the narcissistic structure doesn't care what others has to say to him if it is bad, but he does care if it is good. He is an independent person that doesn't care if someone dislikes him (i.e. not caring about others opinions), simply because people disliking him only confirms that he is better than they are.

Narcissists are not licking ass on everyone to become friends. That is the histrionic. We do not care about you, what you have to say about me (unless it is positive), and we do not need you in our lives if you have no purpose. It's like a filter.

Nah. I think narcissists care a whole lot about what people think of them. They're just too arrogant to admit it. It feels like you're trying to convince yourself here.

by **Quoth** » Mon Oct 30, 2017 2:09 am

realityhere wrote: I often wonder about this. What is the difference between the two, that is, narcissism the disorder versus narcissism the personal identity?

Spin, mostly.

Taken to extremes it's the distinction between saying "I display grandiosity and entitlement and feel like I am a great person of destiny because I am disordered" and saying "I am grand and entitled because I am a great person of destiny which society happens to view as a psychiatric disorder."

For what it's worth, having read his response I suspect Middie may be inaccurately conflating "caring" with "feeling empathy for" which could be a language barrier issue...

by **LittleMissToxic** » Mon Oct 30, 2017 2:20 pm

Midwinter wrote:1. How many of you - besides being so caught up in yourselves - lack remorse and guilt?
2. Is a narcissistic lack of remorse different from that of the antisocial?

The trait is often recognized as an antisocial trait, but I'm sure a narcissist can have it as well. It is not a defining trait, but it should be considered.

I lack it, at least in the things I've done in my life so far.

Discuss.

/M

I do, but I also have psychopathic tendencies. I don't generally feel bad about hurting people unless it's the two core people in my life that I actually care about. Everyone else, no. In fact, sometimes I intentionally throw an "innocent" barb at someone to hurt them (in my eyes, they usually deserve it) because I'm bored. Of course, it's never my fault nor was it "intentional" because I'm the quintessential "good, sweet, naive, innocent girl" (we are what we create). Do I ever feel bad about doing things like that or kicking someone to the curb when they aren't meeting MY needs, etc.? No.

by **curiousjane** » Mon Oct 30, 2017 3:17 pm

LittleMissToxic wrote: I don't generally feel bad about hurting people unless it's the two core people in my life that I actually care about.

I am very curious about this capacity to turn on and off the ability to care that seems to be present in a lot of people that supposedly have a personality structure that would prevent them to care.

What is that switch? How does one turn it on and off?

If you are able to feel remorse when you hurt the two people that you care about, then YOU ARE ABLE.

I think it would be interesting to know what happens when the switches are turned on and off. And I understand they are not conscious or even under out control.

-- Mon Oct 30, 2017 10:24 am --

kaloya123 wrote:
curiousjane wrote:Having no regard for other people's feelings or opinions is not what motivates your behavior. I think it is in fact a reaction to how much you actually care about other's opinions.

Of course, I suppress my anger and rage - I always make sure that others wouldn't notice these emotions, but internally they are always there.

Whenever we behave in one way or another so others would not notice or notice certain aspects of us, it indicates to me that "I care about what others think about me and the opinion they will have of me". Otherwise I would simply not care LOL.

by **curiousjane** » Mon Oct 30, 2017 3:28 pm

Quoth wrote:For what it's worth, having read his response I suspect Middie may be inaccurately conflating "caring" with "feeling empathy for" which could be a language barrier issue...

What in Midwinter's post makes you think that?

Midwinter wrote:Narcissists are not licking ass on everyone to become friends. That is the histrionic. We do not care about you, what you have to say about me (unless it is positive), and we do not need you in our lives if you have no purpose. It's like a filter.

This short paragraph appears to me to be very self-centric. It is describing how he perceives himself to be and not to be.

by **julllia** » Mon Oct 30, 2017 3:31 pm

people who are not insecure and who do not care about other's opinions so much to regulate their self esteem from it. don't feel the need to devalue others. nor be angry and don't have narcissistic injuries.
with narcissism you care so much and are upset so much you can't deal with it if you don't devalue. you devalue to sooth your self esteem being hurt.
is not about caring ,is about self esteem and ego.is just that pds confuse that with caring,the same way they confuse abuse with love. they confuse admiration with love.is a mistake.
i have to repeat to myself that overdramatic doesn't mean he cares more in comparison with a non who stays calm ,calm is not indifference.it means the first has very poor self esteem and is insecure and lacks empathy and is sad.
you base your whole life and behavior around of what others think of you and admiration. while nons don't give a ###$,just do whatever they want.they don't need to devalue to self sooth. they just don't feel hurt,they love their true selves

by **julllia** » Mon Oct 30, 2017 3:47 pm

you have to leave everyone before he leaves you. or you have to lose admiration for him before he does. but the threat is imaginary ,when the threat is imaginary is a disorder probably.
so what if someone doesn't admire you. but easier said than done when it comes to intimacy.
pds don't love themselves like nons do

by **Quoth** » Mon Oct 30, 2017 4:04 pm

curiousjane wrote:
Quoth wrote:For what it's worth, having read his response I suspect Middie may be inaccurately conflating "caring" with "feeling empathy for" which could be a language barrier issue...

What in Midwinter's post makes you think that?

Midwinter wrote:Narcissists are not licking ass on everyone to become friends. That is the histrionic. We do not care about you, what you have to say about me (unless it is positive), and we do not need you in our lives if you have no purpose. It's like a filter.

This short paragraph appears to me to be very self-centric. It is describing how he perceives himself to be and not to be.

Charity mostly, I was tying to find an interpretation which made sense in a seemingly contradictory statement. Also, I know English verbs do not convert easily into some of the other Germanic languages.

I did wonder about digging up one of his own descriptions of narcissistic injury to point out the contradiction but that seemed unnecessarily unkind.

Both him and koloya seem to alternate between love and hate, indifference to others or the idea that others act out of indifference to them doesn't seem to enter into it.

by **LittleMissToxic** » Mon Oct 30, 2017 4:15 pm

curiousjane wrote:
LittleMissToxic wrote: I don't generally feel bad about hurting people unless it's the two core people in my life that I actually care about.

I am very curious about this capacity to turn on and off the ability to care that seems to be present in a lot of people that supposedly have a personality structure that would prevent them to care.

What is that switch? How does one turn it on and off?

If you are able to feel remorse when you hurt the two people that you care about, then YOU ARE ABLE.

I think it would be interesting to know what happens when the switches are turned on and off. And I understand they are not conscious or even under out control.

Of course I have the capacity to care. If I didn't have any feelings at all, I would be a psychopath. I care about the people I love because I value them in the purest sense. Everyone else lacks value unless they have something I need, or want, at the time.

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