gaslighting

Hi all, I have a question to narcissists about what their experience feels like when they gas-light someone else.

I first saw that phrase after my encounter with a narcissist. I was a victim of gaslighting. And was really enraged when I saw it for what it was.

But just a few days ago my ex-fiance who claims I am a BPDer accused me of gaslighting him. In order to prove to me that I really have BPD, he sent some links to me and pointed out some of my behaviors that are clearly toxic, and gaslighting was the main one.

I have to admit, his point was spot on. I was gaslighting him, in a rather blatant way. I would suggest something and then, even 5 minutes later, I would say that I never said that.

E.g. me: please, stay for the night, we can watch a movie and then we'll go to sleep.
after the movie
me: okay, I think you should be leaving now.
fiance: concerned - what? my last bus already left, you said I should stay for the night.
me: what are you talking about? I never said that, this is ridiculous, I have to be up early in the morning, I would never suggest that.

This is just an example, but I really did this many many times over the past few months, in many different contexts, on many different occassions.

Even after he told me that I was doing this, I did this again.

I can't believe this, after educating myself about all the toxic manipulations after my encounter with a narcissist, I was perfectly aware of what gas-lighting is and how abusive it is. And yet, I was doing the same - eventhough I was aware what it is, and even after my fiance pointed out to me that I am doing it.

But I am curious about how it feels like, how people who do it experience it while doing it. Are you aware of doing it? Why do you do it? Where does it come from?

In my case, I think it came from my confusion. I wasn't sure about my own committment to my relationship and that confusion caused me to change my mind about our plans often. I would think that it would be nice if he stays, and then I would think that perhaps it's not the best idea - because I didn't know what I want. And most of the time, I wasn't aware of what I am doing. I really didn't remember that I made some suggestion.

I used to think that it is a sadistic manipulation technique that is supposed to confuse a person, to make her doubt her own perception. Now I have a completely different view.

Apologies for my poor English and thanks inn advance for any thoughts.

PS. Also, an aside question - do you think the fact that I was doing this can really be an indicator of my possible disorder?

This is such a trivial request/change of mind/fickleness, i wouldn't call it "gaslighting", which has a much more sinister purpose, to confuse the reality of the victim when things go very wrong. The pwNPD does not want to admit to any wrongdoing, and instead lies to diminish responsibility, and wills the victim to take on all the blame. The pwNPD also distorts reality to others, in triangulation, making the victim "the villain" and the pwNPD the "victim". This is something that understandably drives the victim crazy, because not only is reality turned upside down, it is a stab in the back by someone you trust, and above all, unjust and unfair to be accused of something vile when one is innocent.

Thank you. I am, of course, glad, if what I was doing was not gas-lighting.

But I am afraid my ex-fiance believes this

Pangloss wrote:sinister purpose, to confuse the reality of the victim when things go very wrong. The pwNPD does not want to admit to any wrongdoing, and instead lies to diminish responsibility, and wills the victim to take on all the blame.

is exactly what I was up to.

I never made him a villan and myself a victim. I know that if anyone, it was me who was abusive to him. And I am willing to take responsibility for that.

But it's true that at some stages my suggestions/shifts looked almost like future-faking and gas-lighting. I am also a bit concerned about the fact that I was almost delusional, it was some kind of distorted thinking - I really wouldn't remember what I said etc. And it was happening over and over and over again, all the time, for many months.

But again, I'm glad if it's just a trivial thing. Maybe it could happen to anyone who is just confused.

Changing your mind, then denying you did, so that all the blame is put on the other person certainly would be a case of gaslighting.

Perhaps you did gaslight, but I usually forgive/don't sweat the small things. The sort of gaslighting that happened to me was much more serious, unjust humiliation in front of staff, etc., which no doubt damaged me, as I am spending so much time and resource trying to cope with the consequences, to recover instead of pursuing my life's ambitions. It's a waste of a life...like an own goal.

If you know you're doing it, then you should stop, your fiance is a human being equal to yourself. You will drive him away, and it is better for him to stay away if you can't help doing this to him. Otherwise, it becomes almost a default mode, you start doing it all the time because you can. It's true what they say "Mind your thoughts as they become your words, mind your words as they become your deeds, mind your deeds as they become your habit, mind your habits as they become your character, mind your character as they become your destiny."

Stop at the point when you are THINKING of doing it. When it becomes your character, it is too late.

Try the Golden Rule. If this is something you do not like to be done to you, do not do it to others.

Gaslighting. I just think (as I already mentioned somewhere) It is CHEAP move. I can ne see the reason of doing it, because I ALWAYS get what I want with other more "thin" manipulations.
Or just straight saying you will do what I SAY for some reason it sometimes turn on for them lol. some just love to be under control. If it is a guy and he love control himslef then there are other sweet ways to make him do what you need from him.

So Gaslighting in my opinion IS TOO OBVIOUS and showing to unaware person of who we are. This is a mistake We should stay well camouflaged
We have a lot of other incredible weapons , why to use damaged one?

Covert Narcs are in that unhappy medium between BPD and NPD where we couldn't gaslight even if we wanted to!

I like the explanation here. The phrase is pretty overused and I've seen it thrown around casually by a lot of people who don't know what it actually is. I think OP might describe actual gaslighting, though, due to the denial of reality, lying, and attempt to make her partner actually believe she did not say something she really said.

I hate the way that the media in general is picking up on the idea of narcissism. I feel as though narcissists are being viewed either as the inmates of a Victorian asylum would have been by visitors, or in a sensationalist manner, to increase readership/viewers/listeners. I picture those avid, 'shocked' audience members loving every gory detail, whilst remaining ignorant of what it really feels like to be a narcissist.

I understand that public awareness of the harm that narcissism causes to family members, friends and partners is a good thing, which can help people to recognise and escape from damaging relationships, and point them towards sources of support. But I watch the media jumping on the bandwagon, and sense the public baying for our blood, and my heart sinks. And yet I know, in fairness, that awareness is a good thing; I treated one person in the past especially badly, and my 'hurt feelings' by comparison are absolutely nothing. I just wish that so much of what is written didn't have that 'juicy gossip' ring to it.

Even the supposedly more knowledgeable sources describe some narcissistic behaviour as gaslighting, which implies fully aware, predetermined intent to confuse someone. But I think that it's more as I described in another thread:-" Gaslighting isn't something that I've ever done to screw with someone's mind, although I know (now) that I have that effect, when I forget or wrongly remember what happened. (Or I apply double standards.) I don't think that many narcissists consciously gaslight, although one or two have said that they've done it. "

'Silent treatment' is another misunderstood concept, but that's a different subject.

I don't know if that will help, but I found myself in a similar situation once. I had been "gaslighted" by a guy (let's call him Guy1), which I didn't notice by myself. My environment had to point it out for me. Some time later, I was dating another guy (Guy2). Guy2 started having nightmares involving me after a few months. These nightmares were similar to the ones I had previously when I being "gaslighted". When Guy2 mentioned the nightmares, I suddenly realised that I had been replicating on him what had been done to me.

There were a lot of reasons to this, but the main one was that Guy2's behaviour had evolved to become more and more passive-agressive and slightly controlling. Even though I am usually extremely patient, Guy1 had used my patience to the last drop. Guy2's passive-agressive behaviour appeared very unattractive in my eyes, so that made me lose interest in him without me realising it, as I was focusing on his feelings and not mine, trying to please him. I couldn't find a way out of his controling behaviour, so I subconsciously used the "gaslighting technique" that Guy1 had "tought" me. This realisation was shocking to me as I had always wondered how some people could have the emotional capacity to do this to others.

I acknowledged to Guy2 what I had been doing and promised myself I would stop. But I didn't really manage to stop as it had become a pattern in the relationship, so I decided to end the relationship to avoid further damages and explained to Guy2 in details what was wrong with my behaviour, as he was quite confused. We had a good discussion and ended in good terms, and we are still in touch. I never used this technique again and never felt like using it either, but I was shocked by what I had done.

Maybe you should re-think your current relationship, and whether your feelings to your fiance are genuine. You say that you have been "gaslighted" in the past, so this might have affected your pattern of responses to others or erode your patience towards others. Dating someone you do not truly love is generally a bad idea, but this is even worse after having been abused because there are chances you do not have any patience for a new person and just report on them the abuse you have been subjected to.