Being hated on first impression

On the train today, I felt a girl looking at me. I'd been feeling deflated before by not being admired at the train station, so I guess I took that out on her and assumed a look of smugness/haughtiness when I felt her eyes on me, at which point she immediately looked away and even pulled her purse onto her laptop from the train seat between me and her. IMO, this was clear retaliation for my smugness/haughtiness, which I feel is a protective mechanism, as is all/most covert narcissism.

I'm stuck in a fear of not being admired, stared at, and thought of as attractive by EVERYONE (every girl and gay guy) to confirm my perfection and being the best looking person, in order I guess to protect myself from vulnerability and rejection.This fear manifests itself in acting smug, haughty, superior, etc. as narcissists do, in public, then when that attitude isn't accepted or confirmed by others, decompensating into a shell of self-deprecation, shame, misery, suicidal and homicidal thoughts, and even aggression a few times in my case. And most importantly, this vicious circle perpetuates itself and causes MORE vulnerability and *fear* of vulnerability.

When I try to integrate myself more with society, I get caught up again in not wanting to be/feel average and then again perceive that I'm not being admired or accepted as the superior being I feel I am, which causes more anxiety and fear, and subsequently again retreat back into my shell of superiority and narcissism, perpetuating the cycle. Every single day. Rinse and repeat. I'm feeling completely hopeless and despondent about it.

It's made worse by the fact I have autistic symptoms, as my psych confirmed recently (not full on Aspergers, but traits). These symptoms with the attendant inability to properly read body language and facial expressions, likely leads me to misinterpret people's reactions and expressions conveniently in confirmation of my fear that they hate and are rejecting me.

Trains, trains and girls on trains! I've been there! I trained myself from an early age not to allow my inner self to show on the outside. It took a while to perfect the art. But I'm an old hand at it now.

covertunsure wrote:On the train today, I felt a girl looking at me. I'd been feeling deflated before by not being admired at the train station, so I guess I took that out on her and assumed a look of smugness/haughtiness when I felt her eyes on me, at which point she immediately looked away and even pulled her purse onto her laptop from the train seat between me and her. IMO, this was clear retaliation for my smugness/haughtiness, which I feel is a protective mechanism, as is all/most covert narcissism.

I'm stuck in a fear of not being admired, stared at, and thought of as attractive by EVERYONE (every girl and gay guy) to confirm my perfection and being the best looking person, in order I guess to protect myself from vulnerability and rejection.This fear manifests itself in acting smug, haughty, superior, etc. as narcissists do, in public, then when that attitude isn't accepted or confirmed by others, decompensating into a shell of self-deprecation, shame, misery, suicidal and homicidal thoughts, and even aggression a few times in my case. And most importantly, this vicious circle perpetuates itself and causes MORE vulnerability and *fear* of vulnerability.

When I try to integrate myself more with society, I get caught up again in not wanting to be/feel average and then again perceive that I'm not being admired or accepted as the superior being I feel I am, which causes more anxiety and fear, and subsequently again retreat back into my shell of superiority and narcissism, perpetuating the cycle. Every single day. Rinse and repeat. I'm feeling completely hopeless and despondent about it.

It's made worse by the fact I have autistic symptoms, as my psych confirmed recently (not full on Aspergers, but traits). These symptoms with the attendant inability to properly read body language and facial expressions, likely leads me to misinterpret people's reactions and expressions conveniently in confirmation of my fear that they hate and are rejecting me.

This is so much like me, and I think you really express well the feelings of a covert somatic.

With me, what I've come to speculate about myself, is that being seen as physically attractive, or thinking one is being seen that way, is about the only way anybody could possibly like me, since my personality is so pathetic. I think most people find my cerebral side boring, confusing, annoying and pretentious.

Over the decades I've developed a way of tuning my insecurities out to a degree that they seldom show on my face. I walk down the street and am out and about with a very calm, unperturbed, sometimes upbeat, confident, cheerful and friendly look on my face. I become, and manifest, the self I want to project. Only once in a very long while, when I'm particularly upset about something, does this mask slips, and people notice and react to it with their own facial expression and body language. I think this happens to a lot people. They fret about projecting negatively with their face, this fear actually ensures they do, someone sees them and mirrors it, and it's a loop chain reaction. But I suspect it happens to covert narcissists even more, and I also suspect that there are more covert narcissists out there than have ever dreamed they are. I only became self-aware about this after a long journey following an emotional crisis about 4 years ago.

I will admit here, that over the many long decades, and even today, I think I've "turned heads" and physically attracted people and those rare moments when it's been relatively obviously, were "rushes" I'll remember in perfect detail. It's addicting. There are a few girls I see on my rounds, shopping, etc., and maybe males too, who habitually glance at me with a half-haughty, half-bored look on their face, and actually I even get a little supply from that, thinking they're trying to hide their true attraction to me. I'll make it clear here, however, that most of the time I feel like a disgusting pig.

Now, I will admit there could be a fair amount of distortion in my perception of all this, but I suspect I'm reading much of it right. Also, I'm not trying to conquer anybody. Beyond an addiction to the rush and memory trophy these episodes of "being noticed" create, I'm terrified of going any further.

This is pretty much a case of creating situations where you put yourself in a position to inflict hurt on yourself. A cycle of self abuse.
My daughter, uses trains, and she is very uncomfortable with guys who stare at her (and if you are scanning for a 'response that you are attractive' you're going to be looking). She says 'creepy'. When on the train she makes no comments on how people look, doesn't care if they are attractive or not and is there simply to 'get from home to work'. She (and i'd guess 99% of the population) are not there to check out whether you or anyone is 'attractive'.
You say 'hated', fact is its taking something personal which is actually situational.... a girl will feel uncomfortable with some guy checking her 'body languague' and likely to be thinking "hope he doesn't follow me when I get off at my stop" or 'why is he looking at me".... Girls have to worry about stuff like being raped, it happens.

The trouble with this type of behaviour (wanting to be affirmed by others as attractive) is that most people seriously are not at all interested one way or the other. They DONT CARE if you are antonio banderos or have a hunchback and a disfiguring skin condition.... people are on the train thinking about 'the day ahead'... 'last nights dinner date'.... 'whether to buy the pink dress or the pale blue'.

Personalising other peoples reactions (or lack of) creates a situation where you are feeling negatively based on.... nothing.

As for being the best looking person, logically no one can be that.... as 'beauty' is relative, some people value it low (ie, don't care if you are hideously ugly, if you are a kind person is important), others have their own perception.... you may have 'tall dark and handsome' down pat... but a lot of people are going to find 'stocky, fair and rugged, maybe a tooth missing for extra charm and manliness" as their idea of 'attractive'.

So its something THAT IS ALWAYS SELF DEFEATING.

As for wanting people to focus on looks because of 'lacks in personalithy'.... thats a crock... everyone has different personalities..... very 'boring' people can make great freinds and companions, lovers and spouses as can 'very exciting with loads of interesting stuff and ideas to talk about'. Not everyone wants 'google answers' in a partner.

I recommend going to Robert Burney's joy2meu website.

Loads of stuff there.... its about NPD, BPD, etc etc.... but all under the one title 'codependence'.

Its not going to give much joy to you if your self worth is dependent on what you think others think. They probably are thinking 'nothing' anyway about you.

Take care all

There's no way on this Earth that EVERY straight woman and gay male is going to find you attractive. You're deluding yourself if you think they do. It's just impossible. Even the most beautiful people in the world have people who consider them unattractive. Angelina Jolie is beyond beautiful to me, but some people don't find her attractive at all (how, I do not know, lol).

I wish I had advice for you. Your post makes me realize that I'm only mildly narcissistic. I only need the adoration of my feed, not everyone I encounter in public. I hope that you can sort some of this out and be happy. I can definitely tell you that people do not make snap judgments of hate in public about the people around them. Like someone else said, they usually aren't paying attention. Also, I've learned to never make eye contact with men when I'm out and about because they will think it's an invitation and hit on me and I do NOT want that (even if they are attractive, they are of no use to me).

So funny reading this as I'm a covert somatic myself and the last situation where I felt a cute girl checking me out was in a train station. It was an absolute rush and a confirmation of my own feeling of superiority.

On the flipside I am TERRIFIED of getting a look of disgust from an attractive woman. You know the scene in American Psycho where he visualises telling the barmaid what he thinks of her after she pisses him off? I'd love to tell that to every attractive woman who's give me a look of disgust . The worst situation is having to talk to an attractive woman and seeing her express subtle disgust in her face because she possibly finds me ugly and me not being able to leave the conversation. Oh that is HELL!

Just try and learn to read body language. For example the girl that was checking me out was incessantly having sneak peaks at me and then looking away but each stare was longer than the last. All the while she was crossing her legs and facing in my direction and one of the times I turned whilst acting like I didn't know she was staring, she looked me right in the eye with dilated pupils. I had to try hard to look calm and composed. I was giddy inside because that body language and eye contact is pretty clear that it's attraction. She basically said with her eyes and body "Talk to me, I think you're hot"

You can't expect everyone to find you attractive. Your automatic somatic narcissism draws you to that want but it is insanity to expect it. Instead focus on every hot girl who's shown that she clearly wants you and think of all the men who couldn't get her. Just ignore the disinterest and indifference that other girls show. Act like you don't see it. Lie to yourself just like every other person on this earth does to help get themselves through a day.

Also don't let the fact you're weird and don't have a normal job or many friends affect your self esteem. People in the large majority are idiotic sheep whose minds and opinions are governed by society and are largely worthless. Socialising for me is a matter of fooling these sheep into thinking I'm the kind of person they want me to be in order to give me the self esteem I need in that moment.
Then when I'm away from them, they can die in a fire for all I care. I have that contempt because that's the contempt they have for me if I'm not satisfying the requirement they have of me.

Best of luck my man!

Thank you all so much for your responses and sorry for the delay in getting back to you. I was trying to take a break from thinking about all this, as it's pretty depressing. But tonight made me revisit it, and I was very pleased to see empathy and understanding.

easyfromhere, thank you so much as well for your "non" perspective. I sometimes feel mildly psychotic in my interpretations of people's body language, so it's very reassuring to get some feedback that maybe it's not entirely, or always (since I'm sure in some cases my haugtiness/condescension does genuinely spark anger in others) me, even if I'm sparking the reaction of the girl thinking my behavior (or I) is creepy, rather than simply retaliating for me "insulting" them.

HelloKitty, heracies, perfectlynumb, you bring up good points. But as fellow narcissists to varying degrees, are you saying you can actually accept at a fundamental level that some people won't find you attractive? Can you rest with that notion for a moment with your eyes closed, breathe deeply, and feel okay with it? Or is that an intellectualized explanation in passing while writing the post? I ask because I'm genuinely curious. Personally, it sparks insane amounts of panic, not just fear, and some anger when considering or trying to accept that some people won't find me attractive and will reject me. I mean, doesn't accepting that some won't like or find you appealing belie the entire nature of narcissism—thinking, or at least our False Selves thinking, we are perfect?

covertunsure wrote:HelloKitty, heracies, perfectlynumb, you bring up good points. But as fellow narcissists to varying degrees, are you saying you can actually accept at a fundamental level that some people won't find you attractive? Can you rest with that notion for a moment with your eyes closed, breathe deeply, and feel okay with it? Or is that an intellectualized explanation in passing while writing the post? I ask because I'm genuinely curious. Personally, it sparks insane amounts of panic, not just fear, and some anger when considering or trying to accept that some people won't find me attractive and will reject me. I mean, doesn't accepting that some won't like or find you appealing belie the entire nature of narcissism—thinking, or at least our False Selves thinking, we are perfect?

I'll never properly accept it. I've just learned to lie to myself and devalue the opinions of the ones who reject me. If you're feeling large amounts of panic and fear in reaction to people not finding you attractive you NEED to use coping mechanisms to control your emotions.

There's reasons why a woman who finds you attractive won't show it in that moment. Distraction, a bad mood, she's a lesbian, she hates men, she's mad, she's weird etc. All excuses I use to explain away disinterest. Even if there's a sign I'm wrong, I swallow the lie and distract from my doubt with another task.

covertunsure wrote: HelloKitty, heracies, perfectlynumb, you bring up good points. But as fellow narcissists to varying degrees, are you saying you can actually accept at a fundamental level that some people won't find you attractive? Can you rest with that notion for a moment with your eyes closed, breathe deeply, and feel okay with it? Or is that an intellectualized explanation in passing while writing the post? I ask because I'm genuinely curious. Personally, it sparks insane amounts of panic, not just fear, and some anger when considering or trying to accept that some people won't find me attractive and will reject me. I mean, doesn't accepting that some won't like or find you appealing belie the entire nature of narcissism—thinking, or at least our False Selves thinking, we are perfect?

I hope it's okay if I just link to a post I made recently on another forum that I hope succinctly answers your question: http://intjforum.com/showpost.php?p=539 ... stcount=21

I've tried to explore the nuances of my somaticism in lots of posts on several subforums here. You can search them if you want to, if it's important to you. Also blog posts.

I think ultimately one has to take some sort of "cosmic", spiritual view to get out of this addiction, and I'm working on that. But no, I'm still addicted. It's sort of an "emotional alcoholism".

So I think it's safe to say that we're all entrenched, to varying degrees, in our narcissistic pathologies and defenses. It's all just coping mechanisms, at least for me. This is just a pathetic disease. I hate it. And I'll never be rid of it.

On the other hand, I guess I hate the idea of being/feeling normal, average, and not extraordinary even more. Narcissism, at least in those of us that hate our narcissism, seems firmly rooted in fear.

Until I decide to and can accept my limitations (I posted another thread http://www.psychforums.com/narcissistic-personality/topic174762.html on this), I'll never be out of this addiction and cycle. But that'll mean coming to terms with the fact I'm not this creative, gorgeous genius, and it feels like a completely empty, scary existence to which death is undoubtedly preferable.