Can a narcissist fool the psychologist?

I have strong reasons to believe my girlfriend is NPD or HPD (she shows symptoms of both).
I'll go to the psych to clarify some concerns about our relationship. I spoke with him on the phone and he said that he will talk first to me, then if needed, he will also talk with my girlfriend and/or both of us.

If my girlfriend is really NPD or HPD, can she fool the psychologist?

maybeimhealthy wrote:If my girlfriend is really NPD or HPD, can she fool the psychologist?

Hi maybeimhealthy, what if she does fool the psychologist? What is it that you fear here?

absolutely.

by their nature, narcissists are charming on the surface. that "charm" is actually their main manipulative tool, at the outset of getting to know someone. it's very easy to fool people, even psychologists, when a person comes off as affable, charming, and likable, which narcissists do very well.

a true NPD diagnosis takes at least 6 months to diagnosis because it's an insidious condition. their true self needs time to emerge. however, psychologists who specialize in personality disorders can be much quicker in identifying PDs. it's best for a person suspected of having NPD or any PD to seek out a psychologist who specializes in PDs because most psychologists do not.

Thx for the answers.

Hi maybeimhealthy, what if she does fool the psychologist? What is it that you fear here?

My girlfriend is always blaming me for everything, she twists the truth on me and tries to make me the problem (at least that's how I see it). The thing is that she exaggerates everything, says something that did not really happen in order to make me the one who is crazy, not-normal, threatening her, being rude to her, being excessively angry at her, forcing her to do something when she does not want to do it, etc. I know these are all her lies, but somehow these lies come to me. I really start to think "Yes, maybe I exaggerated, I was rude, etc".

I'm already questioning if I'm the abuser or the abused. If I'm the abused, I'd like the abuse to stop or to end this relationship as soon as possible. If I'm the abused and she fools the psychologist, then, I'll be fooled too, because I'll believe to what the psychologist says. If this happens, who knows for how long I'll stay in this toxic relationship until it ends.

What complicates things here is that I have a 10 months old baby with her. If I stay in this relationship for too long, and I'm the abused, the baby will grow during this time, he will attach to me and the breakup will be painful for the kid and everybody else (my family, her family, my girlfriend).

If there would not be our baby involved, I would care much much less if she manages to fool the psychologist.

That's why I need to know the truth. Better to end it now, then later. There will be less suffering for all of us.

maybeimhealthy wrote:I'm already questioning if I'm the abuser or the abused. If I'm the abused, I'd like the abuse to stop or to end this relationship as soon as possible. If I'm the abused and she fools the psychologist, then, I'll be fooled too, because I'll believe to what the psychologist says. If this happens, who knows for how long I'll stay in this toxic relationship until it ends.

Do you mean that abuser or abused, anyway you want to leave?

What complicates things here is that I have a 10 months old baby with her. If I stay in this relationship for too long, and I'm the abused, the baby will grow during this time, he will attach to me and the breakup will be painful for the kid and everybody else (my family, her family, my girlfriend).

Be separate or not, it's your baby, you are his/her father, and your parents are his/her grand parents.
Why do you speak of break up with the baby? Isn't he/she going to attach to you even if you break up with the mother?

Do you mean that abuser or abused, anyway you want to leave?

If I'm the abuser, I'll try my best to change and the abuse to stop.
If I'm the abused, either she stops the abuse or I leave.

Be separate or not, it's your baby, you are his/her father, and your parents are his/her grand parents.
Why do you speak of break up with the baby? Isn't he/she going to attach to you even if you break up with the mother?

I didn't mean to break up with the baby, just the mother. I see that my kid will suffer less if I break up with the mother while the kid is still a baby, because the baby will be less attached to me. I think it's easier to let go of something that you don't have, then something that you already have and must let go. For example, it's easier for a kid to see his father twice per week if he never saw him more than twice per week, than for a kid to see his father twice per week when he grew up seeing him everyday. Also, he would not have to see all the emotional drama that his mother and dad are going through.

maybe,

It is normal in a non-PD'd relationship for the non to question "Is it me or is it her?" A non will see that a disordered person's words often do not match her/ his actions, that a PD'd person projects back to the non every (perceived or real) criticism initially directed at her/ him. It's a form of self-defense learned at an early age in childhood to boost a shredded self-esteem that she found worked for her and hence she utilizes this method even as an adult. The problem occurs when she is involved in a close or intimate relationship and she is unable to utilize more adult ways of resolving what she perceives as an attack on her self-esteem or abandonment issues. So, basically speaking, you're probably dealing with a PD'd person who is an adult with a 4 yo child's defense mechanisms.

A non who has grown up in a loving family with fairly balanced dynamics has had little to no exposure to personality disorders and upon a relationship with a PD'd person will often give the benefit of the doubt. Hence, the question "Is it me or is it her?" (In other words, am I really the abuser here? after being blamed left and right.) A PD'd person will always be defensive, blaming anything and everything on the other person, never herself. A psychologist with extensive training and experience with PDs will pick up the dissonance in such a relationship more quickly than one who is not familiar with PDs.

Lastly, a PD doesn't exist in a vacuum by itself. It takes two to tangle. There was something about her that attracted you to her, at least in the initial phase of the relationship, and there was something about you that attracted her to you. The sooner you figure out what things about you that drew her to you, the better you will be able to avoid a repeat pattern of attracting such ppl. Some PD'd ppl are attracted to savior or fixer types, for starters. Therapy can help you understand this form of synergy and how to put up strong boundaries for yourself.

maybeimhealthy,

At first sight (and without being expert), it's difficult for a psychologist to decide who is abuser and who is abused, in case there is a clear line. He'll just see you some hours. Maybe he can help you both find better ways to function?

What i think is that it may be interesting to talk to external people. Be friends, siblings etc. All families and people have different cultures. What seems abuse for one can be normal for to other person. Better talk to take some distance.

I understand better about the baby. How I perceive it (but it's very personal), the contact with the father can be very nourishing and worth it, even if at some moment you separate with the mother and begin to see him twice a week. Having seen him very often in daily life will help you know him better and build a relationship.

Yes, some narcs can easily fool psychologists/psychiatrists. I saw my therapist as a mouse and I was the cat. Sad little woman.

HelloKitty73 wrote:Yes, some narcs can easily fool psychologists/psychiatrists. I saw my therapist as a mouse and I was the cat. Sad little woman.

Or maybe you did not fool her but as she does not see human interactions from the winner/loser angle she did not feel the need to one-up you?

My mother always thought she was fooling her therapists and looking down on them. But in the light of my interactions with them, I am fairly certain she did not, and was actually pretty transparent to them.

Therapists are trained to help people tactfully rather than prove their point.