Can a narcissist fool the psychologist?

Après L Orage wrote:

HelloKitty73 wrote:Yes, some narcs can easily fool psychologists/psychiatrists. I saw my therapist as a mouse and I was the cat. Sad little woman.

Or maybe you did not fool her but as she does not see human interactions from the winner/loser angle she did not feel the need to one-up you?

My mother always thought she was fooling her therapists and looking down on them. But in the light of my interactions with them, I am fairly certain she did not, and was actually pretty transparent to them.

Therapists are trained to help people tactfully rather than prove their point.

No, she was a mouse and there is no helping me. Narcissism cannot be undone in most cases. Even if it could somehow be undone, I do not want to be "helped".

HelloKitty73 wrote: I do not want to be "helped"

Why not?

everyone can
they are human

I did tell you, didn't I ALO! I'd want a therapist to help me with my mood problems. If she started talking about esoteric techniques or my wounded inner child or has gaps in her knowledge, then she's going to lose me very quickly.

IMHO, I believe that a therapist needs to know about Cluster B's specifically in order to identify them in their practice. If it is not a therapist that is knowledgable, they will not know what to look for, and will get pulled into the N's charm & manipulation tactics. There are very smart clinicians out there, that do not specialize, that will report to a supervisor, who will also know.Ultimately, even a non-specializing clinician will see that the treatment is going nowhere, and they are possibly being disrespected, in overt or covert ways. I, treat this population, and their families. For me, because, it's a serious diagnosis, that shapes the way I decide to direct treatment, I will take a good 3 months. Patterns emerge, enactments occur, and it can all been seen thru money transactions, cancelations, sexualizing treatment and the transference. Transference, meaning my gut, the feeling I get from the patient. Because I was raised by N's, it's a visceral thing for me. My body reacts when I'm in the presence of a Cluster B. I will go through the protocol, but, typically, I suspect fairly early in the game that there is someone high in N' traits, but, remember, it's a spectrum disorder too, and not everyone is hopeless, I have found. It's important not to diagnose immediately as I have experienced personally and professionally, temporary Narcissistic episodes depending on life circumstances. If you see a BPD, when they are in their depressive state, it may take a while to see the rage, to see the split, to diagnose BPD. Sometimes, like with self harm, cutters, Eating disorders, we only see the depressive state, and the rage that is turned inward against their body, is not interpreted as rage for a long time. So, they are not seen as "Split". As of late they are saying that PSTD has been presenting as BPD, and it's not BPD. So, it's complicated. But the answer is Yes & No. The trained therapist can see the traits fairly early on, but the N can fool the untrained Clinician. My formal specialty training gave me the information I need to treat Cluster B's and the effect they have on the people around them, but, it's only my personal life experience, that gives me the real knowledge, of the depth of the complexities of these disorders. SMH

Après L Orage wrote:

HelloKitty73 wrote: I do not want to be "helped"

Why not?

I don't know how to be any other way. This is who I am. I don't want to be the manufactured doll of a psychiatrist who thinks he/she knows what "normal" is. It's like asking a "normal" person to become a narc.

I am just learning that I might be a narc myself and when I think what I did to my therapist...

Years ago, as a teenager I've been to a therapy (for different reasons - I was a difficult teenager, say). What I did to my therapist was awful. Of course, I didn't see it that way then; then I thought he is a monster and I am the victim, but if you look at it from a different perspective, when I think that I might be a narc myself...

Long story short - I was seducing him. Just playing with him, because I could and it was fun. And when he reciprocated (nothing really happened, but he was trying badly to have an affair with me, I think he actually really felt something), I officially accused him of harassment. Of course, he shouldn't have reciprocated, so what happened to him is mainly his own responsibility. But the fact is I was playing him and he almost lost his family and his job.

Shoshannah wrote:I am just learning that I might be a narc myself and when I think what I did to my therapist...

Years ago, as a teenager I've been to a therapy (for different reasons - I was a difficult teenager, say). What I did to my therapist was awful. Of course, I didn't see it that way then; then I thought he is a monster and I am the victim, but if you look at it from a different perspective, when I think that I might be a narc myself...

Long story short - I was seducing him. Just playing with him, because I could and it was fun. And when he reciprocated (nothing really happened, but he was trying badly to have an affair with me, I think he actually really felt something), I officially accused him of harassment. Of course, he shouldn't have reciprocated, so what happened to him is mainly his own responsibility. But the fact is I was playing him and he almost lost his family and his job.

Evil and sexy. I like it.