Narcissistic collapse

What happens when a narcissist collapse? Does it cause them to change their traits? What goes through their heads? What is happening when they tell you they need isolation? What happens during their isolation?

Camesawconquer wrote:What happens when a narcissist collapse? Does it cause them to change their traits? What goes through their heads? What is happening when they tell you they need isolation? What happens during their isolation?

Did you break your "no contact?" I'd have to know more about the circumstances of the "collapse." It sounds like needing time to re-mix the narrative, modify recent events in a way I can come to terms with.

No I haven't broke no contact. I took your advice on using Google to learn more about narcissism. I read about the collapse. I wonder if that is what he may being doing since his diagnosis on the Hep B. He had told me he needed isolation. I chalked it up that it was because he met someone new. However, I wonder if he really is isolating since he is somatic and has the diagnosis.

Camesawconquer wrote:He had told me he needed isolation. I chalked it up that it was because he met someone new. However, I wonder if he really is isolating since he is somatic and has the diagnosis.

It's probably the narcissistic injury. I think you lifted his mask without validating how important the mask is to him (as the mother of a 4yo should). Now he's trying to reconcile the shame, coming up with a "workable" story. Dysphoria. There is probably an expectation you'll try harder to access him (making it easier for him to make the story "work.").

That might make you sympathetic and want to contact him to try and make it easier, but... that will only make it harder for him to face what he has to face (eventually). It will reinforce his unknown belief he's special, that the audience will bring flowers backstage even for the worst performance.

IMO, the best thing you can do is prepare that neutral communication (I believe I mentioned before). If this is his moment hitting bottom, he may eventually contact you in desperation (although he may not sound desperate). That would be the time to reply with the neutral "I think there's something you should spend a little time investigating."

If you think I'm missing something, maybe you could give a link to what you read about the "collapse." I haven't heard of it described that way. I think it refers to dysphoria which is injury, loss of supply. It's like pouting, depression, and a recreating a new sense of self. It's like forcing the failure into a new sense of self, managing it, rationalizing the bad parts to be less bad, the good parts to be more good.

I'll go back and try to find it. I've read so much on Google. I think you are right though. The day I blew up on him was because his retest of his liver and STD came back inconclusive. He kept talking about how his life was put on hold. I told him his life was not put on hold, but obviously going to have to be modified if he had severe damage to his liver and of course the STD would put a damper on his lifestyle obviously. I'm on 20 days of no contact and that was because I didn't reply to his messages. I doubt I will hear from him and honestly at this point I don't even know what I would say to him since all he kept saying was I don't have a clue what he thinking and feeling or that I will always think he is up to something. But learning about narcissism makes a lot of our behavior with each other make more sense. I just thought we were toxic, but looking at the traits he has the majority of them. No friends, but he is part of some motorcycle club that he seems to draw some supply off ( I believe it's mostly a club of swingers), lack of empathy, soiled relations with his children, very egotistical and pathological lying like nothing I have ever seen.

-- Sat Sep 26, 2015 4:56 pm --

So if I'm understanding correctly, collapsing is just a more serious withdrawal to try and wipe the slate clean and reform the events into something he can deal with? Since I'm the one who seems to taking the diagnosis more serious and pretty much told him that it is a consequence of his action, then I'm was beginning to be devalued and discarded to fit in with his story.

Camesawconquer wrote:I doubt I will hear from him and honestly at this point I don't even know what I would say to him since all he kept saying was I don't have a clue what he thinking and feeling or that I will always think he is up to something.

You could give him the neutral/friendly pointer to what might help him understand himself. That's not hard to do (just copy paste what I wrote in the post I linked to above). But, since you seem to have your own synergizing attributes, that might be like "waiting for the other shoe to drop," preventing you from moving forward. It could also send him into self-awareness which is like one giant, reversing, narcissistic injury. That could be hard for you (being called upon to relieve him of what he's experiencing, but doing so would impede what he needs to face).

Camesawconquer wrote:So if I'm understanding correctly, collapsing is just a more serious withdrawal to try and wipe the slate clean and reform the events into something he can deal with?

If he's somatic N, losing that outlet of expression (as a means to obtain supply, be mirrored in the physical satisfaction of others) is a major loss. He has little sense of self, or self esteem. Personality-wise, it's like you becoming paralyzed or blind and losing the power/control/sufficiency you were accustomed to. He may not know who he is now, or trying to "find himself." Reinventing himself to exist in the way he has to: something he can see in the eyes of others. You can read Vaknin's Chapter 6: The Concept of Narcissistic Supply. That talks about narcissistic dysphoria, how it "provokes self-healing through escapism and isolation."

Dysphoria is not really depression. It's like disappointment with self. The opposite of happiness/fulfillment (euphoria). (Before I was self-aware I thought it was depression. I also thought it was "acting in" BPD. It's like an emotional lability turned inside. It's the opposite of "not feeling, not caring," which I think of as depression now.).

You can click the "table of contents" at the bottom of that page and maybe see some other chapters (9 total, including the intro page). I believe Vaknin wrote that for victims of Ns. It may not be as positive/upbeat as I might present some things.

Camesawconquer wrote:Since I'm the one who seems to taking the diagnosis more serious and pretty much told him that it is a consequence of his action, then I'm was beginning to be devalued and discarded to fit in with his story.

Something about this part of the story doesn't add up. You've said he has contacted you more than once and you didn't reply ("because I didn't reply to his messages."). It seems that you believe, because he isn't doubling his effort, he D&D you. That's not really D&D. It sounds like he gave you silent treatment to punish you, expecting you'd "come around" pretty quickly. It sounds like you chose to go "no contact."

Your role with him could be narcissistic. Maybe you D&Ded him. You don't sound pathologically N. But, you took the harsh post by @TheLord in stride. (He's "the Narcissist Whisperer" because Ns sometimes need a good kick in the head like that. The way you took that in stride made me wonder if you're high on the spectrum.). For example, there is something called "stable narcissism" which isn't "normal" but it's not pathological either. That would explain your D&D of him when he became useless to you (as a toy), but you don't suffer the more pathological features like dysphoria, isolation, etc. That's something you can explore with your therapist. (Of course, I could be reading too much into it too.).

I did think about speaking to him neutral was something I might do, but I'm learning that I may have my own issues to work on first. I feel like maybe I need to learn to understand my attractin to him and why I have let it go on so long. The harshness of the other poster did sting a little, but due to my work position and being an attractive woman who has had to prove I got where I am by my brains, not my looks, I can take criticism well especially if I feel there is some validation to the comments. I have spoke with his wife and she says she has told him she believes he is narcissistic, but he just thinks he is just a little more rigid than most. I don't think it's so much that I D&d him. I think it's that I do have a healthy self esteem and will not allow anyone to mistreat me in anyway that I find disrespectful. Also, the more I am learning about narcissism and borderline personalities, I can tell that the relationship would be a never ending roller coaster ride. I just turned 40 and pretty healthy. He is pushing 50 with numerous health problems and with his ED becoming more prevalent as his sexual addiction escalates, I can't find a reason to justify pursuing the relationship any longer. But I do want to understand what it is and why I react to it. Probably the nerd in me lol