Why is covert narcissism considered low functioning?

I have been on this website for a while but this is my first time here because I had learned after eight years of my break up with my ex that he was a covert narcissist. I read this is the worst of the narcissism spectrum because they are harder to spot and see and they are considered low functioning of the NPD spectrum, why are they considered low functioning?

Spokane Girl wrote:first time here because I had learned after eight years of my break up with my ex that he was a covert narcissist. I read this is the worst of the narcissism spectrum because they are harder to spot and see and they are considered low functioning of the NPD spectrum, why are they considered low functioning?

How did you learn your ex is cN? Sometimes people pathologize others for closure.

I don't think it's "the" worst. The Dark Triad is considered the worst. But, it's definitely bad because it's hidden. With a typical classic/grandiose N, you can see it and know the person is a little "over the top." You can relate the changes in behavior to that level of self-esteem.

A covert N creates a level of asymmetry in a relationship. That's a large part of how I met my needs. I didn't have to expose my grandiosity, nor how injuries related to it. People who were related to me had to learn to read my mind. That imbalance in power was a source of supply. An advantage of control.

It seems like I was much more grandiose when I was younger and as reality didn't oblige me, I hid it. Normal people would adjust their sense of self to what reality shows them they are capable of. I was selfish. I didn't. I simply kept it to myself -- as I tried to get others to show me I am as grand as I need to be, and held it against them that I wasn't. I wouldn't recognize how this asymmetry affects others (making them walk on egg shells, learn to read minds). All that mattered is how I felt.

So, it's a profound selfishness. It starts with internalizing grandiose/entitlement beliefs rather than getting honest (in the face of reality). And then it persists at the expense of others (not the holder who chose not to be honest in the face of reality).

Do not underestimate the word "covert."

However, it's not as calculated or intentional as that sounds. It's a mental coping mechanism. We're grandiose as an over-compensation. We can't give it up (without knowing more about that void we're filling in ourselves this way). It can appear to be sinister to you. But, to me it felt normal. I thought everyone exists this way, with the same mental processes, coping, etc.

As far as low-functioning. Sometimes people use the term to mean inability to live a normal life, maintain relationships, jobs, etc. However, as a copying mechanism, sometimes I see such a person referred to as high-functioning (faking it well, getting by in life). It's almost a juxtaposition to the void they're filling. Compared to how non-functional they are, an N could be high-functioning (even through their life is far from functioning in a normal manner).

Same thing with the word "fragile N." Those who are the highest functioning (in appearance, impenetrability) are probably the most fragile.

I don't know. Just my thoughts on that. I avoid those terms because their subjective or situational.

Spokane Girl wrote:I have been on this website for a while but this is my first time here because I had learned after eight years of my break up with my ex that he was a covert narcissist. I read this is the worst of the narcissism spectrum because they are harder to spot and see and they are considered low functioning of the NPD spectrum, why are they considered low functioning?

Not all cNPDs are low functioning, but most probably are. Grandiose/overt narcissists tend to be high functioning because in today's world, traits like aggression, grandiosity ("I can do anything I set out to do!"), and even entitlement ("I demand a promotion/raise/company car because I deserve it!") are what gets you ahead in the world. An overt NPD is in your face and easier to identify as a "narc" than a cNPD is, which is why covert narcissism is considered more "malignant" -- because it's more hidden and so with a cNPD, by the time you realize they're a narc, they may have already done damage.

So, why are covert narcissists more low functioning? Because their narcissism (which is a plus in society today) is hidden behind a shy, reclusive, insecure exterior. They may have as much grandiosity, sense of entitlement and lack of empathy as an overt N, but they don't show it (unless they are getting a lot of supply, then their grandiose nature becomes more apparent). cNPDs appear to be quiet, socially awkward, introverted, very sensitive. These qualities are not conducive to success in the world. So why would someone have adopted a "mask" like this--one that seems so vulnerable?

My theory is that cNPD usually develops when a child is getting mixed messages from their parents and inconsistent discipline, or when one of the parents is an overt N and the child doesn't dare "show up" the N parent. I also think it's common in only children, who are likely to serve as both scapegoat and golden child. I'll use myself as an example. I was the only child of a malignant somatic narcissist mother (with histrionic traits) who was very beautiful and took great pride in her appearance. She had been a model before she married. I was to be her "mini-me" and to her delight I was an attractive child, fit to be dressed up like a doll to mirror her and make her look good. She obsessed about my hair, my weight, the way I dressed. My father was codependent to my mother (I think he was either a Borderline or a cNPD himself). As an aside, during my early teens I became quite the rebel--deliberately trying to GAIN weight (my mother couldn't stand fat people and always thought I was too fat anyway--even though at 5'4" and 125 lbs I was hardly fat!), dressing in the baggiest, most unflattering clothes I could find (to hide my body, which was attractive and curvy but made me feel ashamed). I turned into a "cerebral" N partly as a rebellion against what I perceived to be my mother's shallowness and preoccupation with appearance, although I had the brains to do so. How I didn't develop an eating disorder is one of life's mysteries.

Early on, about age 4, I developed BPD, which I think in many cases is the "first" disorder to develop in a child (PDs are called attachment disorders in a child though, since PDs are only recognized in adults). My narcissism developed a bit later, in response to being put in a pedestal as somehow "special," or "better" than the other kids. But I was also a scapegoat. My punishments were severe and even worse, they were inconsistent. I was constantly put down by my controlling, perfectionist mother if I failed to be a "perfect" mirror to her. And of course, I couldn't mirror her perfectly--I was not her! My father almost always colluded with her and his alcoholism could turn his temper violent. While he never hit my mother, he did hit me, and going against my mother's wishes was the worst transgression of all.

I was allowed to mirror my mother (be just like her) but not overshadow her in any way. To do so would be to invite her wrath. So in order to never outshine her, I developed an outer mask of false humility, insecurity, hypervigilance, and deference to authority. I think people with cNPD actually have two false selves, not just one--the inner mask of what we traditionally think of as narcissism (grandisoty, entitlement, envy, lack of empathy, etc) overlaid with a reclusive, shy mask that is the one shown to the world. But the N traits come out anyway. A covert narcissist will be afraid to speak up or assert themselves (remember, they have been trained to play second fiddle to a dominant N) but inside will seethe with envy, rage, and a sense of entitlement. When things are going well (supply is abundant) a cNPD may become more grandiose/overt (I have seen this happen in myself). The outer mask is less needed.

But to answer your question about why covert narcissists are lower functioning: basically it's because of what people see. People who are introverted, shy, insecure, hypervigilant and oversensitive (as cNPDs tend to be) tend to not do as well in life as those who are highly social, cocky (grandiose), aggressive (unafraid of demanding their rights or entitlements), and always demanding to be the center of attention, as an overt N will be.

cNPD has been compared to BPD + Avoidant PD. It's also been compared to Aspergers, because a person with cNPD can seem as socially awkward and unable to read social cues as someone with Aspergers. In fact, for many years I thought I had Aspergers.

Hope this helps.

All the HFNs I know seem to be very successful. One is a mega millionaire. I dropped out of university after a year through home sickness and my abandonment issues mean I'm single at 53. My inability to work in teams and ability to make up my own rules has meant that I've lost three jobs. We live and learn though. I have a theory that most bankrupts are CNs. I'm always behind with my tax payments.

And HFNs and GNs don't suffer from depression and high anxiety. The title of a Mel Brooks film, by the way. Research him.

Let them eat cake!

http://youtu.be/Db3e8Qw9hhs

How did you learn your ex is cN? Sometimes people pathologize others for closure.

By stumbling upon Lucky Otter's Heaven's blog and reading about narcissism and I started to read about it in Google search and I learned the term covert narcissist from the blogger. So I looked that term up and it fits him. I learned so much about his behavior and it makes more sense now and he always contradicted his actions with his words but actions speak louder than words.

I have thought off and on what if I am just misreading him, what if I am just exaggerating, what if I was the abuser, etc. But I have talked to my mom and to one of my online friends and they told me what they remember and it sounded bad so I know I am not exaggerating. In fact it sounded worse than I remember so it's like I blocked it out and I never kept a journal about it. But yet my posts online about him are floating all over on another forum buried and I did some blogging about him on my space but they changed it and now the blogs do not exist anymore so mine are gone now.

Ladywith3cats wrote:

Spokane Girl wrote:I have been on this website for a while but this is my first time here because I had learned after eight years of my break up with my ex that he was a covert narcissist. I read this is the worst of the narcissism spectrum because they are harder to spot and see and they are considered low functioning of the NPD spectrum, why are they considered low functioning?

Not all cNPDs are low functioning, but most probably are. Grandiose/overt narcissists tend to be high functioning because in today's world, traits like aggression, grandiosity ("I can do anything I set out to do!"), and even entitlement ("I demand a promotion/raise/company car because I deserve it!") are what gets you ahead in the world. An overt NPD is in your face and easier to identify as a "narc" than a cNPD is, which is why covert narcissism is considered more "malignant" -- because it's more hidden and so with a cNPD, by the time you realize they're a narc, they may have already done damage.

It took me eight years alright and he had done damage and I had to go into counseling to undo what he had convinced me of and my husband had to listen to me about my ex for months and to help me bring me up my low self esteem. I couldn't understand how he could say that contradicts what my ex told me.

So, why are covert narcissists more low functioning? Because their narcissism (which is a plus in society today) is hidden behind a shy, reclusive, insecure exterior. They may have as much grandiosity, sense of entitlement and lack of empathy as an overt N, but they don't show it (unless they are getting a lot of supply, then their grandiose nature becomes more apparent). cNPDs appear to be quiet, socially awkward, introverted, very sensitive. These qualities are not conducive to success in the world. So why would someone have adopted a "mask" like this--one that seems so vulnerable?

This sounds very much like my ex. When we first met, he seemed loyal, innocent, naive, he was very sweet and nice. Then when I moved in with him it all started to change. He appears nice when you see him and you might not even guess he is a narc or a mean person and he got along with his employers and his son. I had no idea he was abusing me and I thought I was being too sensitive and I always thought I was doing something wrong so I always felt bad about myself and I things I did for him was never good enough.

But to answer your question about why covert narcissists are lower functioning: basically it's because of what people see. People who are introverted, shy, insecure, hypervigilant and oversensitive (as cNPDs tend to be) tend to not do as well in life as those who are highly social, cocky (grandiose), aggressive (unafraid of demanding their rights or entitlements), and always demanding to be the center of attention, as an overt N will be.

Also very much like my ex. But yet he had no problems holding down a job or getting one and he always worked as a supervisor because he could be in control.

cNPD has been compared to BPD + Avoidant PD. It's also been compared to Aspergers, because a person with cNPD can seem as socially awkward and unable to read social cues as someone with Aspergers. In fact, for many years I thought I had Aspergers.

My ex found out about it through me and thought he had it and now I think it was all narcissism I was seeing and he hid behind the aspie label to hide his abuse. I think most people mistake narcissism for Asperger's, look at ASPartners for example on the Delphi forums, I believe lot of their partners and ex's were narcissist than autistic. But yet telling those women the good news about their partner that they are a narcissist and it's not autism they were seeing, it would offend them and they don't want to hear that wonderful news.

Spokane Girl wrote:




This sounds very much like my ex. When we first met, he seemed loyal, innocent, naive, he was very sweet and nice. Then when I moved in with him it all started to change. He appears nice when you see him and you might not even guess he is a narc or a mean person and he got along with his employers and his son. I had no idea he was abusing me and I thought I was being too sensitive and I always thought I was doing something wrong so I always felt bad about myself and I things I did for him was never good enough.

That sounds like the pattern. Of course, most of us don't know we're being abusive, we just think it's normal behavior that anyone would do. And then we wonder why people get mad at us or avoid us. If a cNPD isn't self aware, they feel like the victim. To be fair, cNPDs often *are* victims, as they tend to form partnerships and relationships with higher funtioning Ns or grandiose Ns or malignant Ns, and in such a pairing, the CN will almost always be the victim/codependent one in the relationship. But in day to day life, a CN can feel victimized and picked on by everyone. They can't see the way they act or why others react to them as they do.

It wasn't until I got hit with the truth stick a month ago that I could suddenly see myself as others saw me--and it was very disorienting and upsetting at first. You are filled with guilt and shame, and a desire to "make things right" with all the people you have hurt in your past--sort of like the AA "making amends" step. For example, I feel like calling all my old therapists who I treated like crap and apologizing to all of them.

So yes, we do abuse, but we may not be aware of it. We're always on the defensive, which causes us to treat people badly. Self awareness makes it possible to filter ourselves a lot more.

My ex found out about it through me and thought he had it and now I think it was all narcissism I was seeing and he hid behind the aspie label to hide his abuse. I think most people mistake narcissism for Asperger's, look at ASPartners for example on the Delphi forums, I believe lot of their partners and ex's were narcissist than autistic. But yet telling those women the good news about their partner that they are a narcissist and it's not autism they were seeing, it would offend them and they don't want to hear that wonderful news.

Again, the "hiding behind the Aspie label" is probably not a deliberate attempt to mislead people. For example, I really thought I was an Aspie, because I'd pass online tests for it and I had so many of the aspergers symptoms. One therapist even agreed with my assessment! (most therapists don't know much about narcissism , especially the covert type, because the DSM doesn't recognize it as a disorder yet). So if we act like an Aspie and don't know there's another form of narcissism that doesn't really fit the DSM criteria (aggression, grandiosity, arrogance, etc) but does closely resemble Aspergers, then of course it's natural to think you are an Aspie.

I'm not defending your ex, but it sounds like he wasn't really "hiding behind" that label but actually believed he was one. And, of course, its possible he *could* be an Aspie too--Aspergers and narcissism can co-exist in the same person. It's all very confusing, isn't it?

Of course there are self aware covert Ns who really do hide behind the Aspergers label too. Sam Vaknin even believes Aspergers itself is a form of narcissism. I don't agree though.

It is possible he thought he was an aspie and what I meant by hiding behind it was he used it as an excuse. Lot of aspies do IMO because they find out about it and instead of going "Oh this is what was wrong, what can I do to help myself and what can I change to make my life better and people around me and to make my marriage better too and make my partner happier?" like Hank did in Parenthood. But instead they go "Oh this is me, I can be myself now" and they act worse and my ex did nothing to improve anything. So yes I do believe we can all hide behind labels even though we do have it because we are avoiding taking responsibility and not doing a thing about it to get better or to improve. Instead it's "Accept us or leave."

Also I believe you don't need to have a condition to hide behind it, you can use other peoples conditions to hide behind it to excuse their behavior like for example I used my ex's anxiety to hide behind his abusive behavior by excusing it. He didn't like me talking to my parents on the phone because he always worried what I might say and what they might think of him and he was worried about me making him come off as an asshole and control freak so I used "He worries too much what people think of him so he does this" to excuse his abuse. So basically I was hiding behind his anxiety label for this behavior he was doing. I did the same with his "AS" too. I will tell other people to not hide behind any labels for their partners to excuse their behavior.


I will quote what my mom said about him "He doesn't realize he is an asshole" and "he doesn't get that he would never get custody of his son because he's an asshole." My mom also told me eight years ago he didn't even know what Asperger's is and knows nothing about it despite that he had been reading about it. She told me you can read about something but it doesn't mean you will know what it is.


I keep reading abuse is intentional but I have wondered if it can be unintentional if the person doesn't know they are doing it due to lack of self awareness. But yet a parent can abuse their kid unintentionally because they don't realize what they are doing is abuse but yet they still get charged with child abuse so why can't it be the same with other abuse. Abuse is abuse, it doesn't have to be intentional right?

And yes I do believe it's possible one can be autistic and a narcissistic.

Spokane Girl wrote:It is possible he thought he was an aspie and what I meant by hiding behind it was he used it as an excuse.

Yes. I often explained (at least to myself) my insensitivity, inability to "connect" normally, etc. as aspergers and ADD.

I didn't feel I was "using it as an excuse." It was just the best I could do to explain what I recognized. I trait surfed for 5-6 years prior to seeing cNPD. I identified with BPD, SPD, HPD, APD, PPD as well. (Some AsPD too). BPD was the leading contender, but it simply didn't explain things like the silent treatment and devalue/discard. The best I could come up with was "mixed PD."

I actually explained that much to my ex when I met her. I knew those traits existed, and something was wrong in some way. So, I guess looking back on it I knew I had something to make an excuse for.