NPD Type: The Fragile Narcissist

I've been doing a lot of reading and have come to the conclusion that the best diagnostic label for my particular brand of NPD is that of a 'Fragile Narcissist' as per the 2008 paper ‘Refining the Construct of Narcissistic Personality Disorder: Diagnostic Criteria and Subtypes’.

http://ps.psychiatryonline.org/data/Journals/AJP/3874/08aj1473.PDF

It is a direct and perfect match, more so than the descriptions of the covert or the cerebral types.

The paper also includes the malignant and high-functioning sub-types, which also look to be defined in much more clinically-oriented and diagnostically accurate detail than in other places I've seen.

Pretty brutal stuff to own up to huh?

It's sad too. Minimum you appear to be aware of the collateral damage...and...you are still telling whoppers... soooo.....

InSpiritus wrote:Pretty brutal stuff to own up to huh?

It's sad too. Minimum you appear to be aware of the collateral damage...and...you are still telling whoppers... soooo.....

Not sure what that means... I have one or two things that I am still holding onto that I haven't been completely honest about, and I am aware that my predilection for being dramatic can still get the better of me, but with every fiber of my being I am trying to FORCE the truth from my lips and from my soul.

I also want to repeat an earlier sentiment I expressed toward you... This is a lifelong pattern of how I see and relate to the world. NO MATTER HOW MUCH I WANT TO BELIEVE OTHERWISE, I will be caught in it's grasp for YEARS before I am truly HEALED. And no amount of logic, no words of wisdom, no suggested course of change, no challenge to my false or true self is going to alter this reality.

Livinginmyhead,

I can only truthfully speak for myself, but I don't think anyone here is suggesting that being healed is an immediate goal. Healing is a process after all. People are offering pointers in directions they think are, let's say, relevant to your situation, not to you personally -- cause you are an anonymous being as we all are.

And no amount of logic, no words of wisdom, no suggested course of change, no challenge to my false or true self is going to alter this reality.

It seems to me that you have a conflicted view of some of the feedback you get here. Perhaps it is based on some misunderstandings of what's implied in what people write, perhaps because you have opened yourself up in many ways, there's a feeling of vulnerability and defensiveness that get's put into the mix. Perhaps there's the possibility of negative judgements and other risks... Myself I wouldn't feel comfortable at all opening up the way you have. We are all different.

Yes - all true. As I said, this thing is still in here - so... it's really hard to come to terms with some of my truths and my emotions sometimes... it's a process right? I also have to be vigilante about deflecting things I see as bad advice for me to though... We are all here for a reason... Validity checking is essential to getting what's needed out of the process without inserting some new broken feature inherited through problematic interactions with others who are dealing with their own stuff.

freyja wrote:Livinginmyhead,

I can only truthfully speak for myself, but I don't think anyone here is suggesting that being healed is an immediate goal. Healing is a process after all. People are offering pointers in directions they think are, let's say, relevant to your situation, not to you personally -- cause you are an anonymous being as we all are.

And no amount of logic, no words of wisdom, no suggested course of change, no challenge to my false or true self is going to alter this reality.

It seems to me that you have a conflicted view of some of the feedback you get here. Perhaps it is based on some misunderstandings of what's implied in what people write, perhaps because you have opened yourself up in many ways, there's a feeling of vulnerability and defensiveness that get's put into the mix. Perhaps there's the possibility of negative judgements and other risks... Myself I wouldn't feel comfortable at all opening up the way you have. We are all different.

I also have to be vigilante about deflecting things I see as bad advice for me to though

Yes, of course. What I am saying is that there is another side to it -- where you are reading through your own filter meanings into things which is not what the person is saying or intending.

We all do that at times. one advantage of online communication rather than face to face is the opportunity to take time and not have to respond on the spot -- take time to breath and read again later -- try to see various possible interpretations of what the person is saying.

It takes the pressure off and adds time for reflection -- to see if there's an overaching theme to what you view as 'bad advise', for instance. I don't really see any of this as advise myself, just points of view to consider -- life experiences to share (or lie about) -- whatever.

This is a very interesting article. I do have to quibble a bit with the way the author is lumping together Malignant NPD and "grandiose" NPD as one single subtype. I actually think the two need to be divided. An overt, grandiose Narcissist is definitely its own subtype, probably comprising the majority of persons with NPD, and probably includes Narcissists who build their sense of self on their professional accomplishments and intellectual works, like professors, writers, actors, etc, and those that build their sense of self on their sexual conquests as well (and those groups aren't necessarily mutually exclusive).

I personally believe though that Malignant NPD is its own "thing" and is basically comprised of a very small percentage of Narcissists who have overlapping traits with Paranoid PD and with primary psychopathy (the non-criminal aspects of AsPD, like need for control, sadism, and a limited emotional range). Also, Malignant NPD seems to be a disorder where one's sense of self is built primarily on the acquisition of power, as opposed to solely cerebral or somatic accomplishments, and where the Narcissist underneath feels powerless and thus is constantly trying to become more powerful, thus protecting the vulnerable Self behind the mask and preventing any damage to the Self by the world around it, which the Malignant N perceives as hostile due to his paranoia.

Like all Narcissists, I think that the Malignant Narcissist is someone who truly wants to be loved by others and form a bond with others, but is unable to, and who is highly sensitive to criticism and challenges. Malignant Narcissists are probably drawn to leadership roles due to their twin needs for power and control and for a fan base.

Esquire wrote: Like all Narcissists, I think that the Malignant Narcissist is someone who truly wants to be loved by others and form a bond with others, but is unable to, and who is highly sensitive to criticism and challenges. Malignant Narcissists are probably drawn to leadership roles due to their twin needs for power and control and for a fan base.

One of the things that finally woke me up (there are several) was encountering an OBVIOUS malignant narcissist in the workplace. He makes EVERYONE around him miserable - he is unrealistic, critical, and believes he knows more than anyone about pretty much everything. He is just a HUGE HUGE ego driven ASS!!! However, he is also in charge of a large part of a large organization - and has something like 400+ people in his department that fall under him. This entire department is made to dance to his whims - and it's wrecking the moral and ability of teams to be effective... He's exactly what you describe with your leadership/fanbase comment...

I saw what he was - and it brought up a lot in me. I CANNOT STAND TO BE AROUND THIS MAN! And he doesn't particularly like me either. The only reason I keep doing business with this org is because folks under him have demanded that I come in and continue to do work. I can't any more though - last time I had to keep fighting the urge to stand up in the middle of a meeting and tell him to go ###$ himself before storming out (seeing myself as a hero of the defenseless masses who continue to endure his punishment)...

Esquire wrote:This is a very interesting article. I do have to quibble a bit with the way the author is lumping together Malignant NPD and "grandiose" NPD as one single subtype. I actually think the two need to be divided. An overt, grandiose Narcissist is definitely its own subtype, probably comprising the majority of persons with NPD, and probably includes Narcissists who build their sense of self on their professional accomplishments and intellectual works, like professors, writers, actors, etc, and those that build their sense of self on their sexual conquests as well (and those groups aren't necessarily mutually exclusive).

I personally believe though that Malignant NPD is its own "thing" and is basically comprised of a very small percentage of Narcissists who have overlapping traits with Paranoid PD and with primary psychopathy (the non-criminal aspects of AsPD, like need for control, sadism, and a limited emotional range). Also, Malignant NPD seems to be a disorder where one's sense of self is built primarily on the acquisition of power, as opposed to solely cerebral or somatic accomplishments, and where the Narcissist underneath feels powerless and thus is constantly trying to become more powerful, thus protecting the vulnerable Self behind the mask and preventing any damage to the Self by the world around it, which the Malignant N perceives as hostile due to his paranoia.

Like all Narcissists, I think that the Malignant Narcissist is someone who truly wants to be loved by others and form a bond with others, but is unable to, and who is highly sensitive to criticism and challenges. Malignant Narcissists are probably drawn to leadership roles due to their twin needs for power and control and for a fan base.

It looks like they've actually made this distinction, unlike most, if not all, other researchers. In the beginning they acknowledge the usual dichotomy of subtypes, but further in they actually propose three subtypes. I think they just unwisely applied a different term to what is often called a grandiose narcissist: high-functioning/exhibitionistic narcissist. I think they should have just stuck with "malignant."

"Grandiose/malignant narcissists exploit others with little regard for their welfare, and (unlike other narcissistic patients) their grandiosity appears to be primary rather than defensive or compensatory. [...] High-functioning/exhibitionistic narcissists are grandiose, competitive, attention seeking, and sexually seductive or provocative, and also have significant psychological strengths (e.g. being articulate, energetic, interpersonally comfortable, achievement oriented)."

They list more qualities for each subtype in the Q-factor analysis on page 1477.

I think I'm starting to view malignant narcissism and antisocial personality disorder as extremes on a continuum of grandiosity concurrent with antisocial behavior.

Esquire wrote:This is a very interesting article.

If so, maybe it could be mentioned in the above threads of the forum?