Causes of Grandiosity

I was reflecting what causes the grandiosity in differente personality disorders. Is that the same cause, indepedence manifested in different ways or there are different causes? I have an idea for my schizoid(schizotypal) sense of superiority but I would like hear more opinions on narcissistic PD.

By far the most grandiose of all PDs seens to be the paranoid PD. As far as I am concerned, in that case grandiose and onipotent fantasies are used in a way to hide the patient vulnerability.

In a similar way the schizoids see dependence and reliance as vulnerability. Some will also develop a kind of grandiosity in order to feel independent from other people. Most will also have an stoic self-concept seeing themselves independent from pain and pleasure, praise and criticism.

Maybe this same "independence" may be present at sociopathy. But in that case sociopathy maintain their sense of independence thought seeing themselves as smart, manipulative and above the rules. But I maybe be wrong about that.

So what about narcissitic PD, in what do they differ from the other three PDs?

I am particulary interested in the difference between secret schizoids and narcissists. Secret schizoids according to R Klein may exibit a sense of superiority in order to pursue safety, not the inherit values of grandiostity or specialness. Nevertheless I am still curious why would someone seek specialness for its own sake. Would it be just testosterone in excess than? As if narcissists and sociopaths are naturaly oriented to be dominant and fearless. Or do sociopaths and narcissists have the same paranoid/schizoid attachment issues? Any other possibilities?

A past therapist told me that narcissism is a shame based disorder, and that narcissists feel shame at needing anybody; something that he believed originated in babyhood, when the baby formed an avoidant attachment style, responding to inconsistent maternal care with a sort of, 'sod you, I don't need anybody' attitude. (I'm just repeating this, not commenting on it.)

Narcissists would, therefore, view 'neediness' with contempt, and project this contempt on to others. He thought that I would not allow myself to care for others, but for me, this just does not apply.

I don't have any problems in asking for practical help, but I haven't asked for emotional support at times such as bereavement, or even, sometimes, when I've felt a degree of 'mental distress'. It hasn't been for reasons of maintaining independence, as much as just not finding comfort in the words or hugs of other people.

bitty wrote:A past therapist told me that narcissism is a shame based disorder, and that narcissists feel shame at needing anybody; something that he believed originated in babyhood, when the baby formed an avoidant attachment style, responding to inconsistent maternal care with a sort of, 'sod you, I don't need anybody' attitude. (I'm just repeating this, not commenting on it.)

All right, but I do think that secure attachment is unlikely to be present at any PD.

Anyway if this is true, maybe the causes are indeed the same among the four PDs I mentioned. Also this would make the word bordeline make sense as if, borderlines, paranoids and narcissists (the former two are also 'borderlines' by Kernberg) are like mild psychotic, or on the borderline between neurosis and psychosis.

I think this 'I don't need anybody' attitude.' is also present on the schizoid. But the schizoid is compliant. Our false self is there to deal with the demands of family and society, whereas our truth self is impoverished. We feel like R Klein book title, a self in exile. Later as all our interactions with people are 'fake' we learn that this gives us no pleasure, so we withdraw.

Besides, I think if the narcissist baby goes on to suffer some kind of abuse latelly he is more prone to turn into ASPD. This doesnt invalidate what you said, indeed many will say that both ASPD and PPD are just more severely disordered 'narcissists'.

I think the PPD on the other hand even if he( or she) believes he is independent, nevertheless he will take responsabilities towards others witch a kind of 'I dont need you, you need me, I am responsible for you' attitude. The ASPD on the other hand is truly indepedent. But what about the NPD? I think they can look like either the PPD or the ASPD.

Interesting posts, you guys are bringing aspects that I have never considered.
I totally feet into your description, @Bitty.

When I was diagnosed, that was one thing that I really didn't understand. I didn't see any grandiosity in myself. But then...
I think that the grandiosity may come from never getting the unconditional love,and from never being good enough. If we never get attention and are never given any importance, we grow up and go through life craving for attention, acceptance and importance. And if I was never getting these things as a child whatever I do, and however hard I try, that means that nothing is good enough. Which, in fact, shows to the outside world as grandiosity.

stirner wrote:I am particulary interested in the difference between secret schizoids and narcissists. Secret schizoids according to R Klein may exibit a sense of superiority in order to pursue safety, not the inherit values of grandiostity or specialness. Nevertheless I am still curious why would someone seek specialness for its own sake. Would it be just testosterone in excess than? As if narcissists and sociopaths are naturaly oriented to be dominant and fearless. Or do sociopaths and narcissists have the same paranoid/schizoid attachment issues? Any other possibilities?

I was actually told that i have no grandiosity... so it is possible to have NPD without grandiosity.

I have had grandiose aspirations since i was a small child, i cannot say what caused them. I used to always feel i had a monumental role in the world, and i still have the same feeling

bipolarmusician wrote:I have had grandiose aspirations since i was a small child, i cannot say what caused them. I used to always feel i had a monumental role in the world, and i still have the same feeling

VioletAasA wrote:I think that the grandiosity may come from never getting the unconditional love,and from never being good enough. If we never get attention and are never given any importance, we grow up and go through life craving for attention, acceptance and importance. And if I was never getting these things as a child whatever I do, and however hard I try, that means that nothing is good enough. Which, in fact, shows to the outside world as grandiosity.

It seens to me that there are at least two kind of narcissism. One is more close to avpd/bpd and the other to hpd/aspd. So yes I kind understand you VioletAasA, but I still dont get the first.

Maybe the first is just "healthy" narcissism in excess combined with other features. As far as I am concerned the narcissist is almost hypomaniac. Still I would like to hear other possibilities.

The pwNPD I was involved with had major bouts of Grandiosity. His comes from the fact that without it, he feels small, unimportant and ordinary. His quest for bigger, better and more is leading to his downfall. Massive debt, poor decisions based on how things "look" rather than how substantial and needed they really are cause him to buy things and do things just for show. I know he feels without all the pomp and circumstance, nobody would bother with him. He never understood that without all that smoke and mirrors, he would weed out the users and admirers and what would be left behind would be something more authentic. When he does encounter authentic people, he sees them as boring. He is only interested in rich and important people but they eventually figure out that he is just a façade....

My therapist said that grandiosity is the substitute for true happiness. If you were truly content and happy with yourself there would be no need for grandiosity (look at how great I am, love me, say I'm worth a damn in your eyes).

I think your therapist in onto something.

If someone is happy with who they are and where they are headed, there is no need to make things more then they are. Understanding that there will always be someone that appears to have more than you, better than you and to be comfortable with that is allowing yourself to be happy.

When you feel you have to be unsatisfied with your reality and create a different one to project out to the world, when you are alone with your thoughts, you will be conflicted and at odds with yourself.....