Did he know?

Hi all,
I have been reading and reading on the subject of narcissism for the last 5 months, due to being in a relationship with someone I now believe to be an N. I ignored all the red flags, not that i noticed many in the beginning because I was too wrapped up in the feeling, promises and all the future faking.

After the 3rd breakup i knew there was something definitely not right and that this was not a normal relationship and breakup. There was D&D, then lack of emapthy, lies, triangulation, gas lighting and covert manipulation. I won't bore you with the rest of the details of the relationship.

I have been no contact for 5 months now, through that and reading alot i'v gained clarity but i still have a question and his words still run on my mind.

At the time of the last D&D he said 'i won't do this anymore at least not you' along with 'figure it out yourself' when i was asking him what was really going on. In a rage he said 'It's all about me and it will always be about me'
When we were together he once called me his slave, i laugh at it now because how could i have been so blind after hearing that, funny thing is i thought he was joking.

Anyways my question is for N's and Non's please give your opinion too...Through saying the things he said, did he know what he was doing was wrong? Leading me to believe in this relationship that would never happen. Did he know he was using me the entire time? Do you think he had any self awareness about his disorder?

Some N's have a very master slave mentality when it comes to relationships. It's not real though. It's something they play at. They want to BECOME the master and they want to MAKE someone their slave. I emphasize those words on purpose. If they were ACTUALLY your master and you were ACTUALLY their slave, they would devalue you and discard. You'd be too boring. They like to chase and concur and subjugate. Not actually rule.

You are a game to them, once they have you, it's game over. Time to find a harder game to win.

When he said "It is all about me" that was the truest thing he ever said to you. If you are an empathic person, try to imagine what it would mean to say that and for it to be true. Because that is his reality. He gets what he wants, when he wants it, and you are not important. That is a powerful and dangerous mentality. And you are attracted to it for exactly that reason, imo. Don't whine when you play with fire and get burned. If you don't like it, don't take more than 6 months to move on. Just go find a nice guy and move on. He was not a nice guy.

Legally_Narced wrote:Hi all,
I have been reading and reading on the subject of narcissism for the last 5 months, due to being in a relationship with someone I now believe to be an N. I ignored all the red flags, not that i noticed many in the beginning because I was too wrapped up in the feeling, promises and all the future faking.

After the 3rd breakup i knew there was something definitely not right and that this was not a normal relationship and breakup. There was D&D, then lack of emapthy, lies, triangulation, gas lighting and covert manipulation. I won't bore you with the rest of the details of the relationship.

I have been no contact for 5 months now, through that and reading alot i'v gained clarity but i still have a question and his words still run on my mind.

At the time of the last D&D he said 'i won't do this anymore at least not you' along with 'figure it out yourself' when i was asking him what was really going on. In a rage he said 'It's all about me and it will always be about me'
When we were together he once called me his slave, i laugh at it now because how could i have been so blind after hearing that, funny thing is i thought he was joking.

Anyways my question is for N's and Non's please give your opinion too...Through saying the things he said, did he know what he was doing was wrong? Leading me to believe in this relationship that would never happen. Did he know he was using me the entire time? Do you think he had any self awareness about his disorder?

Congrats on 5 months NC! No easy feat, so take pride and strength in that

From what I have learned on this forum from the very articulate folks on this forum - both those suffering from this disorder within themselves, and those who have been hurt from the collateral damage - your ex truly believed in his own way your relationship would last. Unfortunately though, he was operating from a fear emotion ruled by his very wounded inner child. Search for posts on this forum by addx and you will learn his very enlightening theories on how the NPD brain works. It makes sense, and fits most of our experiences with those with this disorder. It is fascinating, but no less tragic for all of us.

I agree that your ex was hauntingly honest with you and himself when he said this would never happen again WITH YOU and that it would always be ABOUT HIM. He obviously has some awareness and his words spoke volumes. I think it's possible that on some level he meant he will protect you from further hurt by d & d, and that it truly has nothing to do with what you did or didn't do in the relationship, but only about his own private hell that living with NPD must be.

nancy drew
Unfortunately though, he was operating from a fear emotion ruled by his very wounded inner child.

No. I don't believe this wounded inner child stuff, its an old theory, not fact.
My mother is a malignant narc, she's not traumatised or wounded. She had a happy childhood, she was not abused.
Thats not to say trauma & neglect isn't the cause sometimes, but my mother was born like it, took after her father.
Time that old theory was questioned more rather than just taken as 'fact'.
I suppose a traumatised narc would be more extreme, therefore more likely to come to the notice of a psychiatrist or the powers that be hence the notion that 'All narcs are trauma victims'
Most narcs will never be diagnosed their abuses kept within the family unit, narcs love secrets.

Did he know?
Well if you get a new play station game its good fun at first and you think "Ill never get bored with this", but of course ya do.
Narcs don't love as such. They need. Need admiration, attention, unconditional support. Supply.
They use.
Legally_Narced was your ex traumatised?

nancy drew wrote:I agree that your ex was hauntingly honest with you and himself when he said this would never happen again WITH YOU and that it would always be ABOUT HIM. He obviously has some awareness and his words spoke volumes. I think it's possible that on some level he meant he will protect you from further hurt by d & d, and that it truly has nothing to do with what you did or didn't do in the relationship, but only about his own private hell that living with NPD must be.

My ex said that too. Or he said there are so many people has been hurting..he is sick, he doesn't know what's wrong with him. And that there could never be anything between us again.
But still he tried to convince his innocence after 3 months, and after 6 months..
For them it doesn't mean much to have said those things. If he doesn't have a good supply, he will try to come back.
Just saying that be careful, but you are doing just fine!

Legally_Narced wrote:At the time of the last D&D he said 'i won't do this anymore at least not you' along with 'figure it out yourself' when i was asking him what was really going on. In a rage he said 'It's all about me and it will always be about me'

Anyways my question is for N's and Non's please give your opinion too...Through saying the things he said, did he know what he was doing was wrong? Leading me to believe in this relationship that would never happen. Did he know he was using me the entire time? Do you think he had any self awareness about his disorder?

It has been my experience that some narcs, (usually a little on the older side), are aware of their relationship patterns, but not aware that there is anything "wrong" or "disordered" about them. They know what they do to people, they just don't care. Because the end justifies the means in their world.

Yorkshirelass wrote:

nancy drew
Unfortunately though, he was operating from a fear emotion ruled by his very wounded inner child.

No. I don't believe this wounded inner child stuff, its an old theory, not fact.
My mother is a malignant narc, she's not traumatised or wounded. She had a happy childhood, she was not abused.
Thats not to say trauma & neglect isn't the cause sometimes, but my mother was born like it, took after her father.
Time that old theory was questioned more rather than just taken as 'fact'.
I suppose a traumatised narc would be more extreme, therefore more likely to come to the notice of a psychiatrist or the powers that be hence the notion that 'All narcs are trauma victims'
Most narcs will never be diagnosed their abuses kept within the family unit, narcs love secrets.

Did he know?
Well if you get a new play station game its good fun at first and you think "Ill never get bored with this", but of course ya do.
Narcs don't love as such. They need. Need admiration, attention, unconditional support. Supply.
They use.
Legally_Narced was your ex traumatised?

Don't mean to derail the thread, but how do you know for a fact she wasn't abused or had an ideal childhood? Narcs tend to dismiss and re-write history. My ex-wife actually admitted that she blocked out her entire childhood. In seeing how she acted during the discard I can also say that she is masterful at rewriting history to fit her new narrative. She also couldn't recall what her ex husband looked like or bring any real insight into what her relationship with him was like or what problems they had besides her claim that he cheated on her.

I'm not challenging your theory- Just giving you something to think about. Also, some families that appear perfect are far from perfect. Anything to an extreme (perfection and on the flip side abuse) is usually an indicator that something is wrong.

DCEE wrote:Narcs tend to dismiss and re-write history. My ex-wife actually admitted that she blocked out her entire childhood. In seeing how she acted during the discard I can also say that she is masterful at rewriting history to fit her new narrative.

Also, some families that appear perfect are far from perfect. Anything to an extreme (perfection and on the flip side abuse) is usually an indicator that something is wrong.

Your points are spot-on here, DCEE. And there is much, (current), research to back this up.

IamTitanium wrote:

DCEE wrote:Narcs tend to dismiss and re-write history. My ex-wife actually admitted that she blocked out her entire childhood. In seeing how she acted during the discard I can also say that she is masterful at rewriting history to fit her new narrative.

Also, some families that appear perfect are far from perfect. Anything to an extreme (perfection and on the flip side abuse) is usually an indicator that something is wrong.

Your points are spot-on here, DCEE. And there is much, (current), research to back this up.

Thanks.. Again, not to derail but one more thought here..

There were very few signs from her in the beginning but there was something "off" when she detailed her husband leaving her for another women. She was ADAMANT that she believed he didn't cheat to be with the other woman. That defied all logic. I can't imagine someone having an affair and leaving their significant other without some form of cheating happening before they left. When I expressed that to her she said, "I don't want to believe he cheated, so I choose to believe he didn't"

I should have dug deeper in to her thought process but I let it go. In healthy breakups, I think it's important to accept reality, forgive and move on with something new learned. In her case, she created a story to sooth herself from the narcissistic injury of believing that someone as special as her was cheated on. This also speaks to rewriting history. Of course she didn't express how her lack of intimacy or having an active sex life led to him leaving her. In fact, I suspect she was pushing him away. I found the guy on Facebook who married the other woman and started a family with her.

I'm inclined to believe he wasn't a bad guy and simply had a stronger sense of self than I did, since I was willing to forgo a healthy sex life to be with her. I now realize that sex was a weapon to her and her sexual withdrawal was a form of abuse.

never.give.up wrote:It has been my experience that some narcs, (usually a little on the older side), are aware of their relationship patterns, but not aware that there is anything "wrong" or "disordered" about them. They know what they do to people, they just don't care. Because the end justifies the means in their world.

I think this is true. My ex used to refer to his intensity and how his "thinking gets complicated." He often also referred to the parts of himself he never let anyone see. He admitted to demanding to be in charge in all ways in his life (but he said he would try and be flexible with me, he wasn't). He even one time said that he thought he had OCD. He is very much driven by maintaining power in all of his relationships. He admits to that too. I don't think he knows the extent of the damage he causes to people, though. I think he is so focused on power and on protecting his ego that he truly can't see the devastation (or doesn't think it's that big a deal). He always seems surprised that people care about him so much.