Narcs powerful? I think not.

One idea that I have thought about since initially researching into this disorder, was that narcissists are often in positions of power or are successful in society. One of the places I heard this was through Vaknin's videos. Who, supposedly being a narc, is probably speaking from a delusional standpoint anyway.

I've come to the belief now, that the reality about the disorder is that narcs are NOT successful in life, they most likely do NOT rise to many positions of power, in or out of the workplace, do NOT become presidents or very influential.

It is truly a hard disorder to hide, because of the sensitivity towards criticism. When a person, innocently or otherwise, contradicts the narcs view of reality, the rage comes out and exposes the narc quickly. It would be virtually impossible for a narc to undergo the constant public battery that, say, a politician undergoes while rising to power and especially while in it.

In interpersonal relationships, the narc only draws insecure people towards them for any long period of time, because only an insecure person is willing to listen to the self-absorbed talk of a narc, and is susceptible to their usually obvious charms.
To everyone else, with their own healthy ego, the narc is a waste of time, a joke, someone to avoid. And I would say most narcs ARE avoided by people looking for close relationships, because they can not offer it. They are only good for a fun time at a party, or someone who really wants to be superficially charmed.

The thing is, the narc never knows they are not popular with people because very few people confront them, so to any NEW people, they seem so confident and successful, until once you look closer at their personal life and realize they are a complete joke.

The only people scared of narcs are those who are co-narcs, who still have a tendency to put others needs above their own.
Once you learn how to put your needs first, narcs are far from threatening, they are laughable in their delusions! Of course someone who is inexperienced in the world could still get sucked into a relationship if they didn't do their research first, but all it takes is looking at the consistency of their words and their real life to see through it. Once you stay with someone who obviously is self-absorbed, and this comes out eventually, you are choosing that situation, which makes you an enabler.

These are my new evolved thoughts after having gone through a long period of self-pity and feeling victimized, to now a point where I confidently look after my own interests, and now have little fear of being taken advantage of.

This is an interesting question. I think there are some highly successful Ns (Orson Welles and Lance Armstrong come to mind) which could be attributable to something outside of the N-ism. But I agree, not all are stellar in what they do, or in the eyes of those around them. The two Ns I know are considered unpleasant by those around them, and I think THAT has prohibited them from progressing further in their fields of expertise. One of them holds a moderately influential position and has managed to finagle decision makers into turning against his enemies. However, I think it will eventually backfire.

The other N is tripped up by his own egotistical short sightedness and inability to connect with others and has lost lots of money because of it. When I met him, he was rooming in someone's house for lower rent, and was trying to rebuild his career. No one can stand him....

I dont think the successful ones have the disorder though, just narc traits? N traits are good but just when taken to the extreme they are not. Cant have too much of a good thing:-)

Well said and I agree especially with regards to this:
"In interpersonal relationships, the narc only draws insecure people towards them for any long period of time, because only an insecure person is willing to listen to the self-absorbed talk of a narc, and is susceptible to their usually obvious charms.
To everyone else, with their own healthy ego, the narc is a waste of time, a joke, someone to avoid."

But on the topic of power... because the N is capable of being incredibly charming and intriguing, this in my opinion is equal to an automatic attainment of power. If you're capable of making others curious about what you're up to and who you are, that in itself is power.

I think many Ns are successfully able to charm their way up the political ladder, but you're correct in that many also self sabotage themselves before reaching the top.
I read a lot of Sam Vaknin's work with a skeptical eye, but something he wrote that really resonated with me was that the N often times has an 'island of stability'. It can be his work, his academics, his relationship, etc. An example of this would be a charlatan who has stolen a large amount of money and commits acts of fraud in his everyday work, but has remained with the same women for X number of years (and may have even been faithful). Another example is a man who cheats on his spouse compulsively, but has maintained a stable position in his career for X number of years.
In my opinion, (which could very well be wrong because I'm not an N), it is possible for an N to climb up the ladder in society, if there is instability present in another area of his (or her) life.

catchmeifucan wrote:I dont think the successful ones have the disorder though, just narc traits? N traits are good but just when taken to the extreme they are not. Cant have too much of a good thing:-)

I keep reading variations of this sentiment on this forum and I'm puzzled. I think there's a distinction between healthy self esteem and narcissistic traits. There seems to be this idea that unless you have narcissism in your mental makeup, you're trapped by your empathy. From what I understand, narcissism is a negative trait. It doesn't stem from the same source as healthy self love and therefore, the two aren't comparable.

Is there some sort of secret guilty shame around healthy self love? Is that why people refer to any type of healthy "selfishness" as narcissism?

Personally, I don't think my healthy self-preservation behaviors have anything in common with narcissism. When I exhibit lack of empathy (usually under severe stress) it's coming from a dark place--and THAT can perhaps find its cousin in narcissism.

Actually there is shame in self love when you are raised not to have it.
But reality, its not wrong to love yourself. Narcicissim is just more extreme with intent to hurt, manipulate, etc. I dont care if a person is loving himself or is a narc....just dont screw me over at the same time

catchmeifucan wrote:Actually there is shame in self love when you are raised not to have it.

That didn't occur to me...but yes, that makes sense.

One other thought i had was that its more likely that Sociopaths are successful, while narcs are not, even tho narcs lack sympathy, they are stuck with the emotional needs of 5year olds.

I reckon most true narcs are just those pathetic people we meet in life who have very little going for them but are deluded as to their relative worth and extremely sensitive to criticism. The people who mainly fall for these people in relationships are attracted to their delusional confidence because they lack any confidence themselves.

ilostmysoul wrote:Well said and I agree especially with regards to this:
"In interpersonal relationships, the narc only draws insecure people towards them for any long period of time, because only an insecure person is willing to listen to the self-absorbed talk of a narc, and is susceptible to their usually obvious charms.
To everyone else, with their own healthy ego, the narc is a waste of time, a joke, someone to avoid."

But on the topic of power... because the N is capable of being incredibly charming and intriguing, this in my opinion is equal to an automatic attainment of power. If you're capable of making others curious about what you're up to and who you are, that in itself is power.

I think many Ns are successfully able to charm their way up the political ladder, but you're correct in that many also self sabotage themselves before reaching the top.
I read a lot of Sam Vaknin's work with a skeptical eye, but something he wrote that really resonated with me was that the N often times has an 'island of stability'. It can be his work, his academics, his relationship, etc. An example of this would be a charlatan who has stolen a large amount of money and commits acts of fraud in his everyday work, but has remained with the same women for X number of years (and may have even been faithful). Another example is a man who cheats on his spouse compulsively, but has maintained a stable position in his career for X number of years.
In my opinion, (which could very well be wrong because I'm not an N), it is possible for an N to climb up the ladder in society, if there is instability present in another area of his (or her) life.

You are speaking of the cerabel (sp) narcissist have you ever heard of the show house? Well Dr house is the perfect example of a cerable(sp) narcissist. Those narcissist make it to the top imho they are also a sexual but still marry. And still stay a sexual they are crude side but they are better than the somatic narcissist's. Somatics only care about how many women they sleep with nothing more they get no were in life if they do it is rare! OJ simpson and Kanye west are somatic narcissist how they made to the top I have no clue