Trump

wooster wrote:Well, some people in certain places are perfectly capable of remaining as-is for millenia on their own volition.

The greater point I was making in my conversation with Zavatee was that we are still a young species, especially when we see it in terms of a cohesive structure (civilization). Even a millennia is not a long period of time when looking at things past and future, writ large.

The passionate conversations and policy changes people have about Left and Right are for our time - a tempest in our own teacup. They will affect the lives that are living now, and perhaps for a few generations to come. But eventually, radical change will come, perhaps over time, or through some seriously bad problems (population and changes in labor - a lack of forethought and adjustment, etc).

What we say and see now, will be leveled in time. But I am hopeful, not angry or despairing. I think future people will look back at this time and see a struggle for a higher consciousness. And they will benefit from that struggle.

Inshalla'ah! Lets hope in 500 years the human race will still be here and will be improved with a higher consciousness.

The way a lot of people see it I think is that the planet is terminally ill right now. Like a cancer is growing out of control, so there is a sense of urgency that it needs to be stopped before it ends in the end. (The planet was never meant to hold 7 billion people, and growing....)

Some people see the solution as International Socialism. Others see it as Nationalism. From my perspective, the two sides are not seeing eye to eye and are often basing their arguments on opposing facts, often those "facts" are just emotions or beliefs they are holding on to because it feels safer to believe what makes you feel safe, or right/correct, or virtuous, than to go out of the comfort zone and ask if its possible the vision has been distorted by emotion. That is why conversations get so passionate and rarely someone's POV is changed. It turns into an emotional attack, hurt feelings, and even more division.

I like the idea that we can discuss and try to get at the neutral truth rather than an emotion based wishful thinking of how it should be. Because, while its wonderful to look ahead 500 years and have optimism and faith that all will work out, if you are an organism suffering from a terminal illness like cancer, you need to get some medical treatment asap and not wallow away in bed dreaming.

Otter wrote:
...... in this conversation my contention is that change will happen and that no population, country or specific heritage will remain static or unmitigated.

Absolutely. Change will happen - hopefully for the better - however, when "change" is forcefully imposed for ulterior motives by those elites who believe that they know better (but actually don't), then don't expect things to go as planned. In fact, things can be guaranteed not to go as planned, since the one thing you can always rely on is the unexpected.

The passionate conversations and policy changes people have about Left and Right are for our time - a tempest in our own teacup. They will affect the lives that are living now, and perhaps for a few generations to come. But eventually, radical change will come, perhaps over time, or through some seriously bad problems (population and changes in labor - a lack of forethought and adjustment, etc).

Indeed. To some extent the old dichotomy of left and right is already over. We now have the strange situation where those claiming to be of the left are opposed to free speech, are all for burning books and no platforming people they disagree with. Indeed, they appear to have become the very embodiment of authoritarian illiberal liberalism. While the conservative authoritarian right appears to be championing free speech and libertarianism. Similarly, we now have supposed anarchists, free thinking leftists and feminists trying to destroy the liberal secular state for being dominated by male WASPs, while at the same time supporting followers of a conservative authoritarian misogynistic homophobic religion who are not exactly noted for their liberal secular ways.

Quite frankly Otter, i would say that a lot of people are seriously confused right now, and politicians and the media sure ain't helping matters.

What we say and see now, will be leveled in time. But I am hopeful, not angry or despairing. I think future people will look back at this time and see a struggle for a higher consciousness. And they will benefit from that struggle.

Mmmmm. Well, as probably the oldest person here, i can definitely say that i have heard tall tales of a paradigm shift to higher consciousness for decades now. I suspect that a lot people expect this process to just happen to them, instead of it being an ongoing process that you do to yourself. As for this process being a "struggle" well, that certainly sounds like the usual self flagellation popular with the faithful.

As the saying goes:

All words are like echoes,
But these days they are more like the echoes of echoes,
So don't listen to insidious echo words.

Everything you hear is a lie,
Everyone you meet is a fraud,
And what people say and what people mean is not always the same thing.

If you speak the truth people will become angry,
If you follow precepts people will judge it a defect,
So find an isolated spot away from people, and stay there.

Seeking much from people one smiles a lot,
Having many things to do there is much to organise,
From this moment - Don't be like that.

Words are just doodles on paper and sounds in the air.


(Inspired by the Teachings of Old Dog - Patrul Rinpoche)

Is this thread having fun yet?

Eight wrote:Is this thread having fun yet?

Fun may cover a multitude of sins.

... and God knows that, of late, there's a whole hell of a lot of sinning that needs to be covered

or uncovered.

well, at least dealt with.

'Allo Mister, you come my shop, we drink tea.

Prefer a smoke, please.

Have a word with your local sadhu.

Free thinking feminist here. I take back my compliment about your musical taste, Mac.