Son's significant other has HPD

My son met a girl who has been diagnosed with HPD. They dated a few months and things went well, then he began to tell me that she is always at his house. Her things were beginning to take over, and she was very "suffocating". When he would try to talk to her about them having some space, she would leave for a few days, but he would come home and she'd be asleep in his bed. He would tell me things that she would do or say that just didn't seem like the normal reactions a person would have in that situation. He just could not make her understand his point of view. He eventually had to end their relationship. Or maybe I should say, tried to end their relationship. She would not accept that he didn't want to see her anymore. She basically tormented him daily by telephone, texting, showing up at his house, you name it. Everywhere he went, she was there. He went on a date, she found out and went to that girl's job, and convinced her that they were together and she better leave him alone, he's a cheater, etc. There are just too many incidents to mention.

Please hang in there with me. I'm not trying to trash her. I'm trying to understand this disorder.

To make a really long story short, they left a bar one night together, and I now have a beautiful 3 year old granddaughter. The pregnancy was a nightmare because she couldn't separate herself from the baby. She couldn't understand that he cared about the baby, but didn't want to be with her. When the baby was almost a year old, my son just got tired and couldn't fight her anymore, and to quote a popular saying "if you can't beat em, join em". They now live together and are raising the baby together. I know he is not in love with her, but knows that this is the best thing for the baby's well being right now.

That brings me to why I'm here. She doesn't seem to have the nurturing, caring, and even love for her children that a Mother should have. I don't know how else to explain it. When they get ready to go out for instance, she does her hair and makeup, get all dressed up, and the baby girl looks like she just drug her out of bed. She makes no effort to brush her hair, put a bow in her hair, make sure her clothes even match or are not all wrinkled, etc. My son, thank God, takes care of that. That was a big problem before they began to live together. She works as an RN and works nights. She would leave that baby with anyone who would keep her, even if she'd only known them a week before she would let my son keep her. When I would go pick up the child, she'd be filthy. Clothes filthly like she'd been wearing them for two or three days.It broke our hearts worrying all the time about the baby. I have a good relationship with the Mother, and have always tried to keep it that way. I find myself always trying to explain the situation to other people, but it's so hard to explain. Everyone judges her and condemns her for her actions, and I want them to understand that she can't help it. I would like some advise as to how to explain her diagnosis to other people.

I hope this isn't too much info., but I wanted you to understand where I'm coming from. I'm not attacking her or trying to disrespect her, I just want to understand for my granddaughter and my son's sakes.
Thank you for reading, and am looking forward to advice and just to talk to somone who knows where we are.

Hi. Welcome to the forum.

Firstly, in addition to the HPD diagnosis, it may also be possible that she could have post natal depression, which of course can only be diagnosed by an expert. I say this because she has HPD, is a relatively new mother, and is likely to be more prone than the average person to developing depression, which could interfere with her ability to bond with her child and have an accurate insight into and awareness of the child's needs. As I said, this is only something that an expert can diagnose, but it is something that should be considered. Perhaps you could persuade her to speak to her doctor if this is the case?

In any case, whether or not she has post natal depression, it seems as if the usual bonding process that takes place between a mother and child isn't as strong as it could be, and this is a cause for concern. You may need to take your son to one side and tell him that you're concerned, being aware of the possibility that you may be confused about interfering. As a last resort, if you have SERIOUS concerns about the child's welfare you will need to speak to Social Services, which can be done anonymously. They are trained to deal with such matters in a sensitive manner and only take children away in exceptional and very serious circumstances. Much of the work that they do is preventative, and they can work with a family, ensuring that they have access to areas they have a need for, such as therapy or family counselling. By taking these preventative steps, a lot of potential harm and damage to a child can be nipped in the bud.

It is quite likely that she has developed HPD as a response to pain and trauma in her own childhood, which may or may not have had its roots in abuse and a lack of bonding with her own parents. Because of this early trauma, she is stuck at a much earlier life stage, and in many ways will be at the emotional stage of a child. Therapy can help her to resolve these issues.

The disorder is not her fault, but nevertheless she needs to see that her actions have consequences, and negative behavour should never be rewarded. Praising her for what she DOES do that is positive might help to a degree. Please see the sticky at the top of the forum about the symptoms of HPD broken down for an understanding of what they mean.

I hope that you can post on the main part of the forum, and gain support from the members here, some of them with HPD and some without, as they can offer advice and help, speaking in terms of their own experiences.

Hi Masquerade:

Thank you for your response. First, I would like to say that she has a 5 year old son who is being raised by her Grandmother. So, this isn't her first child. I have gotten to know her Grandmother and she is the one who told me about her diagnosis of HPD. She believes that when she was "done" with her first husband, that she was "done" with their son. She began nursing school and had long hours working and going to school, so her Grandmother kept her son. The agreement was that when she graduated nursing school, and was working, she would get a place, and her son would go to live with her. That obviously never happened. I have asked enough questions that I have a lot of answers that I didn't have before. Apparently, she met my son 4 weeks after her divorce was final. She told my son that she was divorced and had a son. When he asked why he doesn't live with her, she told him that her Grandmother wouldn't let her take him, and got custody of him. That was not true. I asked her Grandmother about it and she said that she kept asking her when she was going to get her son, and she told her that my son "didn't like children". She doesn't go to see him, bring him to her house or anything. It's really strange to me.

The lies bothered me a lot for a long time, but after reading about HPD, I understand that she has a problem. I/we are just doing our best to deal with the situation.

What scares me the most is that she, at times, would almost be evil. There are so many incidents when she purposely did things to my son that are almost crazy. If I/we tried to talk to her, she would argue and give me, "but..." and absolutely not take any responsibility, and it's always his or someone else's fault she did it. She stalked him continuously. So much that we went to the police to find out what to do. Once she had the baby, it really became worse. He only got to see the baby if he would come to her house, or if she stayed at his house while he visited her. It was unbearable for him. Finally had to hire an attorney and establish paternity and get visitation set up. She was MAD about that. She was losing control and it made her mad. If he went out to a club, she would call the police and tell them that he's drunk and about to get in his car and drive, which wasn't true. A guy came up to my son in the club and just started telling him that the baby isn't his, that he better get a DNA test, and basically, my son eventually beat the crap out of him. He pressed charges and my son went to jail. Found out that he is a friend of hers and she gave him my son's description, and his cell phone number. He was calling and leaving horrible messages on his phone, like, oh, yea, you're going to jail and you ain't gonna see your baby mf. Just would not leave him alone. The worse things were how she was taking care of the baby. Someone text my other son at 12:30 at night and said "guess who just walked into this party?" Your brother's ex and his baby. She took her in her carrier and put her in the guest room with the coats.

I'm sorry for going on and on. I guess I did need to vent after all. I'm so worried about him if he ever tries to leave her. I've had a friend killed for trying to leave a jealous husband and it was horrible. And it was something I never imagined he would do, but he did.

I would love to post on the main forum and talk to other people about this disorder and how to deal with it. Not sure how to though. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

If you scroll near the top of the forum, just above the Announcements, you'll see a box that says "New Topic". Just click onto it and a box will appear for you to post your topic in. You'll get more responses this way as more people will see your post.

Thank you for your response. First, I would like to say that she has a 5 year old son who is being raised by her Grandmother. So, this isn't her first child. I have gotten to know her Grandmother and she is the one who told me about her diagnosis of HPD. She believes that when she was "done" with her first husband, that she was "done" with their son. She began nursing school and had long hours working and going to school, so her Grandmother kept her son. The agreement was that when she graduated nursing school, and was working, she would get a place, and her son would go to live with her. That obviously never happened. I have asked enough questions that I have a lot of answers that I didn't have before. Apparently, she met my son 4 weeks after her divorce was final. She told my son that she was divorced and had a son. When he asked why he doesn't live with her, she told him that her Grandmother wouldn't let her take him, and got custody of him. That was not true. I asked her Grandmother about it and she said that she kept asking her when she was going to get her son, and she told her that my son "didn't like children". She doesn't go to see him, bring him to her house or anything. It's really strange to me.

As a person recovering from HPD after extensive therapy, I often wonder how people can abandon their children. I certainly couldn't have done that to mine. In trying to understand this, I'm wondering if her own experiences as a child severely impaired her inability to bond and face responsibility. This seems to be completely at odds with the fact that she has shown some area of success in her life, by completing and graduating from nursing school, and presumably she has shown sufficient responsibility here to enable her to continue working without being dismissed. There are still some areas of the disorder that leave me baffled. It seems that she has lied both to her grandmother and your son about the situation in order to save face, and minimise her lack of responsibility. It may have been that she was also too immature to cope with the responsibility of caring for her soon. Something has definitely gone wrong with the maternal bonding process, and in all honesty, I don't know or understand how she can ignore him. Do you know anything about her childhood? It's interesting that her grandmother cares for her son, and not her mother. Is her mother still alive, and if so, what has their relationship been like?

What scares me the most is that she, at times, would almost be evil. There are so many incidents when she purposely did things to my son that are almost crazy. If I/we tried to talk to her, she would argue and give me, "but..." and absolutely not take any responsibility, and it's always his or someone else's fault she did it. She stalked him continuously. So much that we went to the police to find out what to do. Once she had the baby, it really became worse. He only got to see the baby if he would come to her house, or if she stayed at his house while he visited her. It was unbearable for him. Finally had to hire an attorney and establish paternity and get visitation set up. She was MAD about that. She was losing control and it made her mad. If he went out to a club, she would call the police and tell them that he's drunk and about to get in his car and drive, which wasn't true. A guy came up to my son in the club and just started telling him that the baby isn't his, that he better get a DNA test, and basically, my son eventually beat the crap out of him. He pressed charges and my son went to jail. Found out that he is a friend of hers and she gave him my son's description, and his cell phone number. He was calling and leaving horrible messages on his phone, like, oh, yea, you're going to jail and you ain't gonna see your baby mf. Just would not leave him alone. The worse things were how she was taking care of the baby. Someone text my other son at 12:30 at night and said "guess who just walked into this party?" Your brother's ex and his baby. She took her in her carrier and put her in the guest room with the coats.

What your son must never do in the future, as difficult as it is, is to retaliate to any form of goading with violence as this will escalate the situation, and he could find himself in jail again, or injured. If he wants to claim custody this will not help his case. It would be better for him to log all incidents in case they're needed as evidence. It sounds as if she is being neglectful towards the baby, and perhaps it may be time to inform Social Services.

I'm sorry for going on and on. I guess I did need to vent after all. I'm so worried about him if he ever tries to leave her. I've had a friend killed for trying to leave a jealous husband and it was horrible. And it was something I never imagined he would do, but he did.

Once again, your son will need to log every incident that occurs if he leaves her in the future. In an abusive relationship of any kind, the most dangerous time is when the partner tries to leave.
This link to a thread in the Domestic Abuse Forum gives advice on planning for a person's safety prior to leaving an abusive relationship.
domestic-abuse/topic11734.html

It sounds as if she has a particularly severe form of HPD, perhaps the Disingenous type, which has aspects of ASPD, and unless she is willing to take on board her issues and take responsibility for them by seeking treatment, the situation is unlikely to change. There is hope for those who have the disorder and healing and recovery is possible, but the person needs to want to change and to understand that their disorder affects not only them, but impacts on those around them.

It can be helpful to talk about YOUR feelings and how this has affected you and your son, because being caught in a situation like this can affect every aspect of your life.

i am hpd too and i'd never be able to do such thing to the child too o_o

o_O o-Oo_O o_O and i'd not stalk a man o_O neverever
man stalks me, not opposite way, it will never happen
masq would you ever stalk a man? o_o even if he is the most perfect man ever o_O

yyy, that isn't the point. Whether or not you or I would do such a thing, it is true that there are occassions where some people with disorders, HPD included, who do. It's true that one cap doesn't fit all, but the point here is that in this case, the poster is concerned because SHE is in a situation in which it HAS been happening, and she is distressed about the impact this is having upon her son, her grandchild, and she is also concerned to a degree about her son's partner.

Talking about the fact that you or I haven't done this doesn't detract from the fact that this is a situation in which someone HAS acted in this way, and we need to bear this in mind and stick specifically to the subject, in which this member is looking for support and advice in her OWN situation.

Gtowngirl, we have moved this from the Questions to HPDs from Nons thread and created your own thread, as it's a subject in its own right, and you would benefit from the support of both HPDs and nons. Please can all people remain respectful.

Not sure if her lack of maternal instinct is inter-twined with the disorder or not, and of course, either way, it doesn't change anything. For whatever it's worth, the woman I met who strongly who I felt strongly matched the HPD criteria, but never sought help, also was repulsed by children.

I don't believe it's a universal trait, but I suppose there could be a tie-in. Taking care of children requires giving attention and time to another, hopefully done with a degree of empathy. It means less time to attend to one's own wants, and less time to flirt with others. For someone who is very self-centered, it's not a difficult stretch to see why they'd not be a good parent.

Still, none of that changes your son's situation. masquerade already provided sound and practical advice. I doubt there is much more that can be done beyond that, but I suspect anyone reading this story is wincing and thinking OMG.

Hi Gtown,

So sorry to hear what you, your son and grandchild are going through. It appears your son's significant other has a pretty "severe case" of PD. I think Masquerade has given you some pretty sound advice.

Hopefully, as Masquerade suggested, you can talk your son's significant other into seeking treatment voluntarily. However, there are no guarantees she will ever change, even with treatment.

I hate to say, but based on what you wrote, things might get worse before they get better. The options Masquerade gave you, might be your only alternative, for the protection of your son and his child.

I also suggest, if she doesn't go for treatment, or shows no progress from treatment, that you work on a long term plan, for your son to exit the relationship and hopefully get custody of the child. This might also require him to move away, as well, so he is no longer harrassed by his ex and her friends/fanclub. You might suggest for him to seek legal advice at some point, but for now, as Masquerade suggested, keep documenting all things that transpire. Worse case, as Masquerade suggested, if you feel the child is in real danger, is to call protection/social services.

Again, sorry you and your family are going through this. She sounds very sick and appears to have a few sick friends as well.

My very best to you...

OK

Wow, thanks everyone for your advice and concern. You can't imagine how much it helps to hear from people who know about this. I always feel like I'm trashing her, and that is not what I'm doing. I love her because she is my Granddaughter's Mother, and I know it sounds crazy, but I feel bad for her. I can't imagine wanting someone so badly that I would do the things she has done to get him. And if I understand this disorder correctly, she really doesn't even love him like she thinks she does. It's just incomprehensible to me. I truly believe that she loves her daughter as much as she is capable of loving, if that makes any sense. I do not however, know how to explain the situation with her son. Her Grandmother brings him to my granddaughter's birthday parties, etc., and she keeps her quite often and she spends time with her brother, and I believe that's a good thing. I feel bad for him though, surely he must wonder why she's raising her and not him. He's still young though.

The part of all of this that is so hard to explain to people is, if you were to meet her, she is really sweet. She honestly would do anything for anyone, even if she just met you. She works with cancer patients, and I can see how she would probably be very comforting to them. That description of her just doesn't at all go with the stories I could tell about the things she has done.

I want you all to know that, at this moment, I am not worried about my granddaughter's well being, because my son has taken on all of that responsibility, and is an excellent father. Remember that they live together now. She does work as an RN and has been at the same job for almost 5 years now, and my son is a stay at home Dad for now. He's beginning school in January to change careers.

To answer the questions about her childhood; this is what she has told us: her father tried to kill her mother when she was young, but her mother got away. He left the state and eventually remarried, and killed his wife. He is in prison in California. I do know for a fact that he is in prison, but I don't know if that story is true or not. She also told us that her Grandmother raised her, and she doesn't have a very good relationship with her Mother. I was told by her Grandmother that she didn't raise her. Her first stepfather was a really good man, and she loved him. He became sick, and passed away when she was 12. When her Mother met the man she is married to now, she was upset and asked to come live with her Grandmother and Grandfather when she was 14. So, I'm afraid to believe anything she tells us, because I know the lies she has told her family about my son, etc. She doesn't know that her Grandmother and I talk about these things. Her Grandmother has told me that she rarely speaks with her. She never returns her phone calls, in fact, she will call me sometimes and ask me to ask my son to have her call her. Her Mother lives close to her Grandmother. She keeps my Granddaughter sometimes too. She and her husband and their daughter come to all of the parties also. I rarely see them talk much. I don't think that is their choice, but hers. I'm not sure about those relationships. I suspect that her family is just used to her strange behaviors, and just deal with it like we are trying to do.

I would like to know more about the disorder. Are the things I am describing typical of HPD? Her Grandmother told me that she was diagnosed when she was 13 with Shallow Emotional Makeup. That's how I got here. I typed it in and got "it's all about me", Histrionic Personality Disorder. If I'm understanding some of the posts, she may have a more severe form or HPD, or even another disorder combined. How can I tell?

Again, thank you all so much for the help.

Gtown wrote: Her Grandmother told me that she was diagnosed when she was 13 with Shallow Emotional Makeup. That's how I got here. I typed it in and got "it's all about me", Histrionic Personality Disorder. If I'm understanding some of the posts, she may have a more severe form or HPD, or even another disorder combined. How can I tell?

Hi Gtown,

Most professionals will not diagnose anyone under 18 with a PD or until a fully developed adult, so not sure what the diagnoses at 13 you suggested is?

From what you wrote it is hard to tell what she suffers from, but I am sure her childhood has effected her deeply. She appears to have "severe abandoment issues" as a result? Usually more of a sign of Borderline personality disorder. However as you indicated, yes, it could be anything or combination there of. That's why a diagnoses would take a professional, which I would highly recommend you suggest to her, so she can seek treatment.

Of course you could suggest she seek help, gently or have your son do so, when the timing is right. Usually when they hit a low, and sort of ask for help.

As far as HPD, the symptoms are listed below. 5 of 8 must be demonstrated on a consistant basis, thus causing effects on her everyday life and on her relationships. Inflexible as to her thoughts. There is more information through the sticky's at the top of the forum. Again, professional help is key, as she may not even be HPD. However, go through the symptoms to see what you think.


Best to you...OK

Diagnostic Evaluation

A diagnosis can be made by knowing the patient's history and by doing a psychological examination.

Individual displays five or more of the following criteria:

1. Is uncomfortable in situations in which he or she is not the center of attention
2. Interaction with others is often characterized by inappropriate sexually seductive or provocative behavior
3. Displays rapidly shifting and shallow expression of emotions
4. Consistently uses physical appearance to draw attention to self
5. Has a style of speech that is excessively impressionistic and lacking in detail
6. Shows self-dramatization, theatricality and exaggerated expression of emotion
7. Is suggestible, that is, easily influenced by others or circumstances
8. Considers relationships to be more intimate than they actually are.