Control

POTENTIAL TRIGGERS. A NON's PERSPECTIVE. No disrespect to any HPD's, just a memory and testimony of mine...

crystal_richardson_ wrote:no not controlled...made DEPRESSED

I get depressed so fast when I am ignored...it's really painful

it's probably the worst thing you could do to me.

Hey Crystal, spoken true to the point...I and others who had HPD lovers quickly came to understand her fear and hatred of that barren place - of being ignored. But in my experience the probable HPD I knew would try to manipulate and control me through what I would call 'male primalism.'
Male primalism, that testosterone-laden place that an HPD can bring a man. Is it purely manipulative, or is she also attracted to it, in and of itself?
First, RE being ignored - at least her perceiving she was being ignored - because maybe most of the time she was not really being ignored...in any relationship there are natural breathing spaces, pauses in the verbal and/or silent psycho-dialogue. The dial can't always be at 10, the needle always hard pegged to the left. If only she could understand that she was misinterpreting those pauses, going too far, succumbing to age-old fears?

So, anyhow, when you are physically joined with her, her lover, husband, maybe even soulmate (and, not a dense blockhead ), you naturally become sensitive to her moods, the little nuances, fine-tuned to her vibrations. If you are like me, you wanted to be.

One probable HPD woman I have known, speaking her own ideal:

"If you are really paying attention, I shouldn't have to tell you what I need - what I like and dislike."

Ok Hon! I can do that...an acceptable condition of this growing, hot, incredible union. Therefore I shall read you like a passionate novel, I will make you a romantic project like no other guy ever has: I will succeed, where all previous clowns have failed. [note: emerging arrogance]

So I threw caution to the wind and dived in to this sublime, uber-romance.
And, at first, it was thrilling, for the both of us...the sex, the emotional feedback between us was incredible, intoxicating, addicting. I have never been so been so blissfully one with another woman. Or so I thought. Or so I wished.
One day, one sunny day within the first six months, she became inexplicably unhappy, irritable. Just day to day variations, I first told myself. But it kept on popping up again and again, like toadstools on the lawn, longer in duration each time. So, still finely tuned to her, in so many words and expressions I asked, "what is it my love, what is it that troubles you...tell me what it is so we can talk it through." But no way, impatiently she said she didn't want to talk it out. So I suggested, "Ok, let's go see a shrink." Trying to dissolve what seemed like the usual shame issues associated with therapy, I said, "it's ok, if your leg was broken, you would go to the emergency room, right? So seeing a shrink for psych or emo problems is the same thing...nothing to be ashamed of." But from her expression of fear and contempt, she seemed even more afraid of the shrink idea than any potential discussions between us alone. Hmm.
As the bottom continued to inexplicably fall out of our fine-crafted romantic love, and as my frustration increased, ironically she seemed more and more attracted to the masculine, virile, oozy, sweaty strength as she saw a growing male anger rising up within me. But at other times, afraid, avoidant. Classic: push, pull? ...or maybe it just calls for caution, the delicate dance of rattling the wolf's cage - a certain excitement at the prospect of being bitten, but at the same time not getting bitten too badly?
Finally, as the romance continued to fall away and the sex dwindled, I firmly declared in male frustration...
"Ok, baby, what is it is that is bothering you? Please tell me what it is - so I can efficiently kill it."

Yeah and like Cracked Girl said, I do believe that violence is always wrong, and ultimately harmful for everyone. Thank God, the gods, the goddesses, or maybe just fate and random chance that I had the strength and self-restraint to get up and walk away from this erotic whirlpool, when I had to.

But I would be a liar if I said I wasn't temporarily "crazy made" by this whole experience...when control among two desperate human beings often becomes mutual abuse, and finally when the self-control to leave becomes your only salvation.

Orion wrote: Yeah and like Cracked Girl said, I do believe that violence is always wrong, and ultimately harmful for everyone. Thank God, the gods, the goddesses, or maybe just fate and random chance that I had the strength and self-restraint to get up and walk away from this erotic whirlpool, when I had to.

But I would be a liar if I said I wasn't temporarily "crazy made" by this whole experience...when control among two desperate human beings often becomes mutual abuse, and finally when the self-control to leave becomes your only salvation.

The object is: to be healthy enough not to get into a situation or continue to be in a situation where you feel "crazy made".

The point is to leave long before you feel that way and understand the reasons why you did or not to get into that situation in the first place. That's healthy. That is confidence and self control. Hopefully you learned that, from your experience or experiences, you have described.

OK

oksayhi212 wrote:

JM wrote:Is it the Bpd or the Hpd who yells at a man, hits him in ways that won't leave a mark...all to get her trophy black eye from him

Did you give one of your ex's a black eye JM?

what does a man reacting to a woman self defensivly who is hitting him with a pan and cutting his head open the only thing you focused on Ok? that had nothing to do with this post man.

To Vanessa.......I liked your reply and found it insightful. but no you cant be two places at once i doubt that hpds with big fanclubs around them would be on their iphones hanging around here. my ex lost some popularity at times with her alternate fanclubs and when she did her fb time significantly increased.

anyway "Control" will escalate in awful ways especially if the pd has bpd abandonment problems. one thing they will do if you stop giving them supply is try to get rid of you or cause a breech of some sort to draw others in that way. in your absense a void is created that they may cause others to step in......."what happened to you and so and so"? "where is so and so". "oh.....why did he or she say or do that to you". then they get attention that way, through the void of your absense.

the good thing about it is that you are not there to need to deal with how they are getting supply. that becomes another problem.

orion -

Good post, and a peek into the mind of a NON.

You're a good guy orion. Odds are she really did care about you, but odds are you also knew on some level that's why the relationship was doomed. What I mean is once the honeymoon phase was over in her mind, the more you supported her emotionally, the stronger she felt. The stronger she felt, the more energized she'd become to pursue new sources of attention.

As a NON, the natural response to that is to withdraw attention, since giving more attention backfires. The person with HPD, when feeling strong, may be inclined to play jealousy games, or ego games to boost their own ego. So the NON retreats, which on some level is what the person with HPD wanted, so that in turn they can feel like a victim, and pursue new attention sources without guilt.

There really is no controlling the person with HPD, and as you wrote, control ultimately becomes abuse. That written, in the end I made a last ditch effort to encourage her to pursue attention and relationships with other men. My ridiculous attempt at 'control'. I suppose it worked, in that she had no clue how to react, but it was ultimately abusive too.

There really is no control, but to take control of ourselves.

Tadlock wrote: what does a man reacting to a woman self defensivly who is hitting him with a pan and cutting his head open the only thing you focused on Ok? that had nothing to do with this post man.

My opinion, it had everything to do with this thread. Sorry you feel otherwise.

Xdude wrote: There really is no control, but to take control of ourselves

Exactly Xdude. And as you and Orion have stated, you might turn from the "victim of abuse" to an abuser yourself, if you "try" to play the "crazy control" game. Self control and strength to leave is key. As Orion, suggested, he is relieved and thankful he did leave, before it went too far. That is key.

Best to you...OK

What I meant by "crazy made" ...crazymaking...is when someone tells you they want you, then pushes you away
..pull/push. Happens when they are extremely ambivalent, and splitting, and you are following their disparate wants...you dont know what they want, because they dont know want. Sometimes, especially among AsPDs or NPDs, crazymaking is intentional...gaslighting. In any case the stress and anger begins to tear you down and your ability to make rational and ethical decisions is challenged. You become tempted to enter into the control game - since it is the only game on the table.
Whether you practice lesser forms of control, as in XDs example, or you get enmeshed in a domestic violence relationship, as it seems jmJMjm was, is determined by your ability to turn the other cheek, despite the confusion and abuse that is coming at you. Your limits of your own self control will be tested, and one critical moment you will either leave, or be conquered.

The probable HPD women I have known were very beautiful, intelligent and high functioning, and even seemed like they were loving and sweet (at first). Like XD said, I think at least one part of them truly was looking for a man to love and care for them...to resolve their central issue. But they also knew something within them was also defeating them, but didnt know what; maybe it was too scary (?)
So hoping it would all work itself out they put on their best and went looking for love. When applying for a job or a relationship, HPDs are like the rest of us, wanting to give a good first impression.
It seemed to me that the control and manipulation started when things began to get turbulent below the surface.

But anyway, control kills real love

Orion wrote: You become tempted to enter into the control game - since it is the only game on the table.
Whether you practice lesser forms of control, as in XDs example, or you get enmeshed in a domestic violence relationship, as it seems jmJMjm was, is determined by your ability to turn the other cheek, despite the confusion and abuse that is coming at you. Your limits of your own self control will be tested, and one critical moment you will either leave, or be conquered.

All well said Orion. I add, that the control game/ push pull relationship, is a very toxic mix, for any non that might have thier own "anger management issues". Those relationship, are more than likely to esculate into domestic violence.

From what I have seen on here, most non's managed thier anger or learned to manage thier anger, in a healthy way. I can only think of a few exceptions where it was obvious that they didn't.

OK

xdude wrote:You're a good guy orion. Odds are she really did care about you, but odds are you also knew on some level that's why the relationship was doomed. What I mean is once the honeymoon phase was over in her mind, the more you supported her emotionally, the stronger she felt. The stronger she felt, the more energized she'd become to pursue new sources of attention.

this is so true. if I develop any real feelings I start pushing away. Basically, I sabotage the relationship. and tell myself that I am just testing him and if he really loves me he'll stay no matter what I do.

crystal_richardson_ wrote:

xdude wrote:You're a good guy orion. Odds are she really did care about you, but odds are you also knew on some level that's why the relationship was doomed. What I mean is once the honeymoon phase was over in her mind, the more you supported her emotionally, the stronger she felt. The stronger she felt, the more energized she'd become to pursue new sources of attention.

this is so true. if I develop any real feelings I start pushing away. Basically, I sabotage the relationship. and tell myself that I am just testing him and if he really loves me he'll stay no matter what I do.

crystal -



Not sure how this ends up for you but that you can see this truth is admirable

On another level, you know those of us with a core hurt, unloved, tossed aside as children, it's hard for us to trust. Hence the tests. Get it. Hope you find happiness crystal

Best wishes,

X

-- Tue Sep 25, 2012 2:30 pm --

orion -

You're a good guy You also deserve someone who really appreciates it and doesn't toss you aside for random attention. Wish you the best brother. One day I hope you meet that woman who appreciates your sincerity and loyalty. Until then, keep in mind some of us do see what a special person you are.

Sincerely,

X