HPD and male 'friends'

Yes, that's a huge part of their appeal. Because of the chameleon like nature of the HPD together with their often high intelligence, they are able to be whatever you desire - an intellectual interlocutor even. But will that relationship last? What you've said about the 'sexual suggestiveness' will never cease. If you are, like so many of the people on this site, and like me, a wounded child, with a 'saviour complex', then sooner or later, you find yourself addicted, and wanting 'more'. That's when you're conquered and she can pull away.
So is it possible to avoid becoming addicted? Yes, I would imagine so, if you are a stable, emotionally together person with good boundaries. Would the HDP individual be very interested in pursuing a frienship with you? I have no idea. Would she? Why, when there's no seduction in it for her? Do HDPs have such 'non-profitable' frienships with men? I don't know. I'd like to.

anagram wrote:

orion8591 wrote:I think the fundamental nature of HPD, namely that the affected person feels so unworthy that they are firmly convinced that they must result to flirtation and seduction for validation, usually prevents the proper boundaries required for healthy, stable, sober male-female friendships.

I don't know what exactly you mean by "sober", but I have been talking regularly with a diagnosed HPD and another girl I strongly suspect has some form of HPD too (she even works in a job where she is paid exclusively to be charming to men).

They both throw random sexual remarks at random times in the conversation, but believe it or not, my relationship with both of them is based on highly intellectual conversation. I think the random remarks make it more fun (one of the girls keeps sending me pictures of sexy women and even porn for me to give my opinion -- I love that!), but the intellectual talk is what keeps them on my contact list.

Not saying they are or are not intellectual, but I would be cautious of the possibilities that they may not be as intellectual as you think they are because they are excellent at mirroring back what they know you like to here. Much as a parrot can repeat words, they can act similarly. What an HPD is to one person can and often is something entirely different to someone else. The one you know can be and usually is totally different with the others in their supply chain.

anagram wrote:

orion8591 wrote:I think the fundamental nature of HPD, namely that the affected person feels so unworthy that they are firmly convinced that they must result to flirtation and seduction for validation, usually prevents the proper boundaries required for healthy, stable, sober male-female friendships.

I don't know what exactly you mean by "sober", but I have been talking regularly with a diagnosed HPD and another girl I strongly suspect has some form of HPD too (she even works in a job where she is paid exclusively to be charming to men).

They both throw random sexual remarks at random times in the conversation, but believe it or not, my relationship with both of them is based on highly intellectual conversation. I think the random remarks make it more fun (one of the girls keeps sending me pictures of sexy women and even porn for me to give my opinion -- I love that!), but the intellectual talk is what keeps them on my contact list.

Hi Anagram
If it doesn't bother you, it works for you, and it also it sounds like it works for them, and everyone's cards are more or less on the table, and of course, it lasts as long as you reasonably expect it to last...can't knock it then

orion8591 wrote:Hi Anagram
If it doesn't bother you, it works for you, and it also it sounds like it works for them, and everyone's cards are more or less on the table, and of course, it lasts as long as you reasonably expect it to last...can't knock it then

Yup

About the "chameleon nature" thing, I won't say it's not true, but then again that's how I am too. About getting addicted... it's funny that one of them said once to me that she was kind of addicted to me and I was never available as often as she'd want me to

I give them attention when I can, and I enjoy it. When I can't (busy or tired) I tell them I'm not available (or simply pretend I'm not here). One time I told one of them that I would block her for the day if she kept insisting. She didn't take it personally

I also told upfront to the other one that it's likely that I'll simply disappear at some point and she won't see it coming, and that it's not personal. Which is true. I really like both of them, though. They're both very unique. And their intellectual talk is not just random quoting. They do like to quote, but it's their interpretation of things that interests me.

Oh, last but not least, they're both deeply interested in reaching understanding and insight. They surprise me all the time (both with what they don't understand and with what they do understand while most people don't). They're good learners and they're good teachers. They also show remarkable resilience. I admire that.

A question for you guys. This probably comes from a point of view closer to the one of an HPD than your own points of view. What is the distinction between a "regular friendship" and one that involves flirtation and sexual overtones?

This is one thing that is really confusing for me about the nature of dysfunctional relationships with HPD women, and it seems like a key point to me. I don't have this distinction at all. I guess if the man has this distinction, then it plays a large part in the incompatibility/imbalance that happens in such relationships.

I wonder if I'm closer to the rule or to the exception in this regard. Exception, I guess. Seems like I'm always the exception

What is the distinction between a "regular friendship" and one that involves flirtation and sexual overtones?

It seems to me that in a 'regular friendship', you know where you stand and the foundations are solid and consistant. With the HPD on the other hand...If, IF, the man could get a hold of himself and say, "no, I'm not going to get seduced into wanting sex/a relationship/a surrogate mother/trying to 'save' this woman, or any other of the myriad of 'hooks'", then perhaps, a regular friendship would result. But would it? Is that not exactly what the HPD needs to avoid as it entails too much honesty, commitment, intimacy, self-disclosure?
Hey! Talking on here is getting my head together!

doash wrote:Talking on here is getting my head together!

Glad I can be part of it

I think you touched the key point here: stability. Stability is something I not only do not desire, but also dread. The fact that some specific thing can never change is disturbing to me. So it's only natural that this kind of friendship wouldn't work for you, but would for me.

I actually do want to be seduced, and I have fun when I get to say no. I might also say yes.
I enjoy the Schrödinger's cat situation. Friendship goes on the same.

anagram wrote: I actually do want to be seduced, and I have fun when I get to say no. I might also say yes. I enjoy the Schrödinger's cat situation. Friendship goes on the same.

Hmmm... the problem with being seduced by the HPD is that so often there is no 'follow through'. It's like a game to them. Feeling 'led on' and manipulated is no fun. This is why these 'relationships' go on for so long. Guys just keep getting their hopes up, and staying on the 'rollercoaster' is exactly what the HPD wants you to do. Fortunately/unfortunaely, the sense of rejection that I experience at the lack of follow through, the 'push' away stage, is strong for me, and more than I'm willing to put up with. I'm set free (to find a new illusion).

-- Mon Aug 06, 2012 1:30 pm --

anagram wrote:

doash wrote:Talking on here is getting my head together!

Glad I can be part of it

I think you touched the key point here: stability. Stability is something I not only do not desire, but also dread. The fact that some specific thing can never change is disturbing to me. So it's only natural that this kind of friendship wouldn't work for you, but would for me.

I actually do want to be seduced, and I have fun when I get to say no. I might also say yes.
I enjoy the Schrödinger's cat situation. Friendship goes on the same.

doash wrote:Hmmm... the problem with being seduced by the HPD is that so often there is no 'follow through'. It's like a game to them.

It's a game for me too. It's good to be able to let your guard down sometimes, but I know HPD-ish girls are not the people I should do this with.

I let my guard down with my narc friend (it's true...) I'm more arrogant than her anyway. She's diagnosed and she does fit the criteria, but honestly to me she's just a normal person.

Feeling 'led on' and manipulated is no fun.

It sure isn't. This is what many HPD's simply can't seem to (or refuse to) understand. It takes two, anyway. It seems like most dysfunctional relationships with HPD's are based on mutual overdependence, in a fundamentally conflicting way.

This is turning into a relationship forum topic. Maybe we should move it over there, or at least shadow it over there (what do you think Masq?)

Guess what matters is how a relationship affects you

If you fall for her seductive moves but intellectually she is saying something different, it could look like she's stringing you along...you might think you are being teased (?)

Setting aside any alleged HPD connections for a moment, If you look up the definition of 'tease,' these three ideas will appear at some point

To arouse hope, desire, or curiosity in without affording satisfaction

To cut (tissue, for example) into pieces for examination

To disentangle and dress the fibers of a fabric (wool, for example)

A man or woman who behaves like a coquette

I found these meanings coinciding in my experience: (1) Hope, and desire was aroused in me, but I was not afforded satisfaction by (2) a woman who behaved like a coquette, and (3) I felt cut into pieces for examination, and finally (4) the fibers of my psychological and emotional well-being felt like they were disentangled. I became unraveled, scattered: people actually told me I was behaving as though I "didn't know who I was."

It might not have been a result of her intentional manipulation (i.e., through antisocial behavior or sadism)...it could have been purely an accident due to her following some behavioral script of her childhood. And, maybe I was attributing her motives as bad, since if I behaved that way, I would have thought I was being bad.

The unknowable mysteries of her intent, and her heart aside...

whatever it was, it still wasn't good for me.

(now as casual friends, we have clearer boundaries, the passion / volatility has ebbed, and things are better).