HPD and male 'friends'

I have recently finished an on/off frienship/relationship with an HPD female. For a long time we've been following this pattern where she tells me she 'just wants to be friends', but then 'pulls' me in, and for a time we'd be more than 'just friends'. However, when she wanted to 'push' me away again, she'd maintain that it was only ever me who was 'wanting more'. She maintains that she has men in her life that are no more than 'friends', but I've never met them. Given my experience of the push/pull, hot/cold treatment, I find it hard to believe that there is any 'middle-ground' of friendship with her... What do you guys think?

[WARNING POSSIBLE TRIGGERS for either HPD's or Non's]

hi Doash

I have recently finished an on/off frienship/relationship with an HPD female.

"On/off," aka 'The Roller Coaster.' Rode it. As you seem to already have found out, the roller coaster is propelled by Push/Pull:

For a long time we've been following this pattern where she tells me she 'just wants to be friends', but then 'pulls' me in, and for a time we'd be more than 'just friends'.

Push/Pull is a well-known behavior among Cluster B's. Some HPD's really have it down. Their particular motivation seems to fall into one of these types:
(1) attraction to father / fear or father / general confusion about intimacy / a fear of intimacy,
(2) boredom /devaluation of the partner,
(3) manipulation / puppet control / a resultant satisfying sense of power,
(4) variations in fan club membership and fan club dynamics: when rookies come in they provide the HPD with that delectable, fresh 'conquering the virgin' rush; alternately, when HPD's return to their established veterans, they are re-affirmed as worthy human beings - this is invaluable, especially in times of HPD self-doubt and depression (btw, not implying they aren't worthy human beings )

Or, sometimes the HPD's motivation behind push/pull is a combination of some or all of the above (?)

[if they do push/pull at all, would like to hear from some of the forum HPD members themselves as to what think is their primary motivation(s)? ]

However, when she wanted to 'push' me away again, she'd maintain that it was only ever me who was 'wanting more'.

I would interpret this as her gaslighting you, with her deeper motivational basis being her repression of her desire to actually want more in her relationship with you, but her desire tragically being thwarted due to her fear of intimacy, her fear of rejection, etc.

She maintains that she has men in her life that are no more than 'friends', but I've never met them. Given my experience of the push/pull, hot/cold treatment, I find it hard to believe that there is any 'middle-ground' of friendship with her... What do you guys think?

At the very least she probably had other fan club members, ones that she in all liklihood carefully concealed from you. They might have been just social media pals or people she texted; whether she was sexually intimate with them or not is another question. It seems like the less severe HPD's just flirt with and lead on many guys without being sexually intimate with them, (especially their more peripheral fan club guys). However, if she had led you to believe that you were in a committed relationship with her, these other sexless, but nevertheless inappropriately close emotional relationships, have been characterized by past Nons on this forum as

'Emotional Cheating.'

Of course, that's up to you to decide if that is an appropriate term within the boundaries of your past relationship with her.

But what about you? How are you doing now?

Peace and health,
orion

Yes, I think there IS a reason why you've never met the guys friends in her life. I tend to keep that side of my life private and concealed. It's like keeping an addiction hidden. IF a boyfriend was ever to meet one of my friends, he would realize instantly that my relationships are inappropriate, excessively flirty, and probably disrespectful because these are all guys that would sleep with me in a instant given the chance. I'm not a cheater, never have been, but I'm a big emotional cheater. I definitely lead guys on, especially when I'm feeling low.

orion8591 wrote:


[if they do push/pull at all, would like to hear from some of the forum HPD members themselves as to what think is their primary motivation(s)? ]

I realize I do "Push and Pull", but I'm not so aware of why......
For me, it might be more of a reaction to real or perceived rejection, and since my partner has let me down, I devalue and grow annoyed/bored with him. Now I no longer think of him as this wonderfulamazingspectacular person, his attention feels tainted and does not fufill me the same way. I become discontent. Now I either need, attention from another guy, or some kind of drama(fight/breakup) to reignite the passion and attraction to my partner.

Steering the subject back to my initial query, a little, this is what bothers me. I have friends of the opposite sex - women with partners, woman woth whom there's no real 'sexual chemistry', but good communication. This is a 'tricky' situation no doubt, but between two resposible adults, it is a very rewarding situation. My question is then: do HDPs ever have such 'sober' friendships? 'My' HDP said that she did, and professed that's what she wanted with me, but in practice, it proved impossible. My own emotions and desires were on a rollercoaster, and though she would 'blame' me totally for this 'inconsistancy', I can't shake the feeling that she had a lot to contribute to it too.

Hi Van

Great post. Hope you don't mind my interpretations (let me know if I am wrong )

Yes, I think there IS a reason why you've never met the guys friends in her life. I tend to keep that side of my life private and concealed. It's like keeping an addiction hidden. IF a boyfriend was ever to meet one of my friends, he would realize instantly that my relationships are inappropriate, excessively flirty, and probably disrespectful because these are all guys that would sleep with me in a instant given the chance.

Interpreting boyfriend as singular, implying monagamy...apparently not a sexual addiction situation, nor a 'Sex in the City' open relationship scenario. So, the HPD woman is often not like her more promiscuous BPD sisters - they might indulge in nymphomania-like compulsive behavior to relieve the aversive tension and stress assocated with BPD. However, for some HPD's (especially those with abuse histories - who might be HPD/BPD) promescuity is their experience.

I'm not a cheater, never have been, but I'm a big emotional cheater. I definitely lead guys on, especially when I'm feeling low.

HPD's are usually after emotional satisfaction - validation - not necessarily sexual satisfaction (except when reserved for their b/f - the 'alpha male' in their life). Plus, given today's problems with STD's, sexless HPD behavior is a lot safer than all-out promiscuity.

Now I either need, attention from another guy, or some kind of drama(fight/breakup) to reignite the passion and attraction to my partner.

Have experienced this need for conflict from 'the other side' and your description helps me understand what was going on within her head.

Thanx for your candidness Van

doash wrote:Steering the subject back to my initial query, a little, this is what bothers me. I have friends of the opposite sex - women with partners, woman woth whom there's no real 'sexual chemistry', but good communication. This is a 'tricky' situation no doubt, but between two resposible adults, it is a very rewarding situation. My question is then: do HDPs ever have such 'sober' friendships? 'My' HDP said that she did, and professed that's what she wanted with me, but in practice, it proved impossible. My own emotions and desires were on a rollercoaster, and though she would 'blame' me totally for this 'inconsistancy', I can't shake the feeling that she had a lot to contribute to it too.

I think the fundamental nature of HPD, namely that the affected person feels so unworthy that they are firmly convinced that they must result to flirtation and seduction for validation, usually prevents the proper boundaries required for healthy, stable, sober male-female friendships.

How can one remain sober, when an often beautiful woman is saying 'seduction' with her eyes and body, while stating she wants a platonic relationship?

Thanks man(?). I needed that.

Yah bro, I've rode the roller coaster too

Had two years of the push pull, like trying to tame the tide. Agree that sometimes it reflects who is on the seen, never met or saw her fan club. Would look for validation through disagreements, never bit to that one. But its the I want you totally but cannot handle it all, seems to be the main problem of my contact. She is now playing the victim to one of her fan club who is now in a relationship so she will be getting attention from both parties now.
Will probably be the object of her desire for a while an she will come back in an attempt to seduce me again. But this forum helps with building strategies.

orion8591 wrote:I think the fundamental nature of HPD, namely that the affected person feels so unworthy that they are firmly convinced that they must result to flirtation and seduction for validation, usually prevents the proper boundaries required for healthy, stable, sober male-female friendships.

I don't know what exactly you mean by "sober", but I have been talking regularly with a diagnosed HPD and another girl I strongly suspect has some form of HPD too (she even works in a job where she is paid exclusively to be charming to men).

They both throw random sexual remarks at random times in the conversation, but believe it or not, my relationship with both of them is based on highly intellectual conversation. I think the random remarks make it more fun (one of the girls keeps sending me pictures of sexy women and even porn for me to give my opinion -- I love that!), but the intellectual talk is what keeps them on my contact list.