Need advice, direction...

OK, first I have to give a little background info. My husband and I have adopted our two granddaughters who are now 11 and 13. They were removed from my son and his wife because the parents were dealing with addictions to drugs and alcohol. The children were in foster care for a year before the courts gave us custody. This happened in 2003/2004. We adopted them in 2005. The oldest DGD has always had more outbursts and temper tantrums, but we knew there would be some emotional problems from all they had been thru. My son has gotten better, but his exwife has only gotten worse. She continues with addiction issues, hep-C and diagnosed as bi-polar. I have talked to xdil''s mother to get some background information. Our girls mom's bio father had mental "issues" and they have a great aunt that is bi-polar on mom's side. Also, drugs and alcohol were used during the 1st 5 months of pregnancy with our older granddaughter. We have no info on our oldest DGD's bio dad (my son is not her bio father).

OK - fast forward to our present problems. Instead of things calming down they are getting worse with oldest. She has been dx as ADD/ADHD. She has problems at school academically, but tests out above average in intelligence. She had had problems fitting in socially at school too. We have been seeing a counselor since we adopted the girls and he is referring us to a psychologist. The counselor feels there may be a borderline personality disorder. I have started reading information - and the histrionic category fits her (and her mom) to a "T". But we have not had our consultation with the psych yet.

She has such explosive outbursts when she doesn't get her way, or gets caught in her web of "explainations", she feels that if we only "listen to her explaination" that we will agree with her. But we are not easily manipulated and then she gets in a rage when she hasn't convinced us of her excuses. After the outbursts, she is overly affectionate, or sulks and says that she hates her self for acting that way.

When I took her shopping for clothes the other day - she picked out 7 tops and each were totally inappropriate for a 13 yo. We are talking hoochi mama stuff... black and purple sequin tube top, strapless tops, halter tops, spaghetti strap tops. And no, I didn't buy her any of those thing. We could only agree on one tshirt. I told if it it didn't pass school dress code standards, it wasn't an option. I realize most teenage girls are going to push the envelope, but this is over the top.

Other things that happen is that she chews her fingernails and toenails to the quick, makes little irritating noises over and over, can't sit still, taps fingers, toes, pencils, twirls hair. THis is probably part of her ADD. She loses things all the time - even her iPod - which is missing for two months now. She is making her little sisters life miserable by treating her badly, even though her little sister seems well adjusted and advanced in school. She makes fun of her "dorky" clothes, etc... like she is trying to make herself feel better by making belittling of other people.

Are their parents on here that can give me advice on dealing with a young teen with some type of personality disorder? I know that she is not officially HPD... but there is definitely some problems. Thanks for any advice or pointing me in the right direction. ksm

I'm not a parent of a teen, but a mom of a 4 yr old, and her dad had a borderline personality. most everything you describe with your teen sounds a lot like him - he was comorbid borderline personality/ADD (from what I could tell - armchair diagnosis. he was diagnosed with ADD in his early school years, but never visited a therapist beyond that and was never officially diagnosed with a borderline personality.). and let me tell you, the man couldn't sit still. if he was forced to sit still, he'd tap his fingers, bounce his feet, ect. he also had explosive temper tantrums when he wouldn't get his way, then calm down shortly afterwards and apologize profusely, and talk about how he should kill himself for being such a jerk.

from my experience, the more boundaries I set, the more temper tantrums he threw. I was with him from the time he was 21 until the time he was 27 (we were both the same age, by the way), and it was almost like raising a teenager that never grew up. it was better to set the boundaries than to just let him go off about stuff, though, because I found he grew to respect me more the more boundaries I set, and it was easier to relate to him during his times of relative peace and quiet if I'd stood up to him even stronger when he went off. he had to be reassured of my love for him often - that was the most important thing. if he felt worried that he would be abandoned, his tantrums would be even worse.

he also developed severe alcohol dependence as a teen, which seemed to exaggerate his personality problems. it's extremely important to keep your teen from any drugs/alcohol as much as possible (you already knew that) but even more important if they have a personality disorder. some 50 percent of individuals with a borderline personality are also alcoholics or drug addicts.

just the fact that you are getting your teen in therapy now, and possibly on medication, is going to do a lot for her in the future. the guy I was with was never medicated or visited with a therapist, and his problems never eased up or got better. the sooner the treatment, the better outcome.

Does she have an activity outside the home that she can participate in that she loves? e.g sports, art classes, sewing classes, playing an instrument ect

If she wants her way on something, that she can not have, perhaps being more involved in her desires will satisfy her, such as engaging with her in conversation, supporting her thoughts though, not your own. It sounds like by giving 'excuses', she is actually perhaps trying to rationalize her feelings about something and identify with herself. This is a good thing. If you pay it attention and involve and engage her, rathter than seeing it as an excuse, she may at least feel that her opinion and thoughts are being listened to, respected and engaged.

ksm wrote:When I took her shopping for clothes the other day - she picked out 7 tops and each were totally inappropriate for a 13 yo. We are talking hoochi mama stuff... black and purple sequin tube top, strapless tops, halter tops, spaghetti strap tops. And no, I didn't buy her any of those thing. We could only agree on one tshirt. I told if it it didn't pass school dress code standards, it wasn't an option. I realize most teenage girls are going to push the envelope, but this is over the top.

Well, in the 70's these top would have been considered high fashion and hip! lol experimenting with clothes is fun and creative. Why not try one on in the store yourself, so you can both have a laugh! Perhaps you being a grandma, wore similar clothes in the 70's, I'm sure there are some funny stories there to share with her??

P.S. I used to wear these tube tops and i had no breasts, and they would fall down...nothing to hold them up..how embarrasing. lol

[quote="InvisibleGhost"]Does she have an activity outside the home that she can participate in that she loves? e.g sports, art classes, sewing classes, playing an instrument ect

She started playing flute two years ago in 6th grade... and dropped it this summer when she scheduled her classes for 8th grade. Her reasoning was that in 9th grade - you could either be on the drill/dance team or in band, but not both because they both met first hour. She wanted to do drill team. She started drill team in 7th grade, but has decided twice to drop out. They meet twice a week in the summer. and she has almost quit several times. So now, no band or drill team.

She is active in church, but not sports. We have tried volleyball, soccer and basketball at the YMCA and she did each one time and didn't like it. She doesn't really have many close friends. She seems to want to fit in to clicques that don't really want her to fit in. At church, she seems to gravitate toward adults and carries on great conversations, or she likes to help with the toddlers and babies, but never hangs out with kids her age.

She is very cute and attractive young teen. Petite, blond hair, green eyes, very pretty - but she says she never wants to look in the mirror because she is so ugly and she hates how she looks. She will hold up her hands to show how big her thighs are - and she is probably making a 30 inch circle... and she is wearing little girl size 10/12!

Will be interested to speak with the psychologist (once insurance approves it - IF!) so we can start to help her cope better. When she gets upset she will sometimes hide under the bed, or in the closet. So while some of this is "normal teenage angst" some things just look like big red flags to me. KSM

ksm wrote:

InvisibleGhost wrote:Does she have an activity outside the home that she can participate in that she loves? e.g sports, art classes, sewing classes, playing an instrument ect

She started playing flute two years ago in 6th grade... and dropped it this summer when she scheduled her classes for 8th grade. Her reasoning was that in 9th grade - you could either be on the drill/dance team or in band, but not both because they both met first hour. She wanted to do drill team. She started drill team in 7th grade, but has decided twice to drop out. They meet twice a week in the summer. and she has almost quit several times. So now, no band or drill team.

She has a valid point about why she could not continue band, she is just abiding by the schools policies. I also think it is awesome that she is willing to try different things. Looks like she may be a bit of an adventurer and open to new ieas and exploring. Good for her! There is a lot of self discovery to be made here, through what she discovers she likes and what she discovers she doesnt like

She is active in church, but not sports. We have tried volleyball, soccer and basketball at the YMCA and she did each one time and didn't like it. She doesn't really have many close friends. She seems to want to fit in to clicques that don't really want her to fit in. At church, she seems to gravitate toward adults and carries on great conversations, or she likes to help with the toddlers and babies, but never hangs out with kids her age.

I find this very interesting!! You are older than her natural parents, (obviously, you have stated that you are grandma), and in Church she gravitates toward older people. Could she be connecting with older folks because of you? (she may feel more connected to elders because she admires and respects you). I also find it interesting that she likes to talk a lot and has great conversations with them. She may (this is how it is for me), feel that elders are more accepting and open minded to her, and don't judge her or reject her, but rather engage her and her thoughts and opinions. That's very insightful. Can she also be seeking this in you?


She is very cute and attractive young teen. Petite, blond hair, green eyes, very pretty - but she says she never wants to look in the mirror because she is so ugly and she hates how she looks. She will hold up her hands to show how big her thighs are - and she is probably making a 30 inch circle... and she is wearing little girl size 10/12!

She could be doing this as a manifestation/mis directed expression of low self esteem. Do you tell her how pretty and cute she is, when she is ready to recieve it? For ex. she picks out a tube top, sure you hate it, but can you engage this with her like asking her why she likes it, and that she is so cute that she could totally pull off wearing something like that. Even though you prefer her not too, can you let it go, tell her you dont personally care for it, and let her experience it for herself. She will learn what she needs to from it. Perhaps she will decide they are a pain in the neck to wear (which they are lol), or perhaps she will hate the attention that it brings her. Or perhaps she will discover, that fashion is fun and she loves it. Or perhaps there will be a time when its obvious that she is seeking validation from you about her body, such as, fixing her hair up in different styles (experimenting), you could pop in and join her, by telling her what looks good when you think it does. Or doing your own hair with her, or trying a style out on her if she lets you.

Will be interested to speak with the psychologist (once insurance approves it - IF!) so we can start to help her cope better. When she gets upset she will sometimes hide under the bed, or in the closet. So while some of this is "normal teenage angst" some things just look like big red flags to me.

Hiding under the bed could be and sounds to me like a fight or flight response. Her way is just hiding (flight). This can be (it is for me), a form of self protection, and wanting to not be seen or heard, like to disappear, because she is unable to understand and/or atticulate her feelings about something. Can you engage with her and ask her if she wants to talk? If not, let her know that if she changes her mind, you will be there for her (with love and alliance, not condemnation)?

Also for you, if you see something as a red flag, can you describe this. Is this just a loving concern for her, or is there a fear that you have? of course you are not obligated to answer, and I respect if you do not

Thank you for answering me and sharing Maam. I also have one more question. Is she a writer at all that you know of?

KSM

She has a valid point about why she could not continue band, she is just abiding by the schools policies. I also think it is awesome that she is willing to try different things. Looks like she may be a bit of an adventurer and open to new ieas and exploring. Good for her! There is a lot of self discovery to be made here, through what she discovers she likes and what she discovers she doesnt like

Yes, but by dropping both band and drill team, she won't be able to do either one in high school. She has signed up for choir for 8th grade. But some times her reasoning for quitting and moving on to new things is that 1) it is too hard, takes too much practice or 2) most of the band kids aren't "cool"



feel that elders are more accepting and open minded to her, and don't judge her or reject her, but rather engage her and her thoughts and opinions. That's very insightful. Can she also be seeking this in you?


I have talked to her and encourage her to do more things at intergenerational gatherings with kids her age... but she has said that kids and adults are more accepting and not judgemental. She is a very bright child. But it seems like if she can't get the group to do what she wants to do - she just quits trying to join in.

S or perhaps she will hate the attention that it brings her. Or perhaps she will discover, that fashion is fun and she loves it. Or perhaps there will be a time when its obvious that she is seeking validation from you about her body, such as, fixing her hair up in different styles (experimenting), you could pop in and join her, by telling her what looks good when you think it does. Or doing your own hair with her, or trying a style out on her if she lets you.

I have told her that things do look attractive on her - but that she really doesn't have an appropriate place to wear an item, or that it will be better when she is a little older for that style.



[color=#800000]Hiding under the bed could be and sounds to me like a fight or flight response. Thank you for answering me and sharing Maam. I also have one more question. Is she a writer at all that you know of?

No not really in to writing... but her therapist has suggested that during her cooling off period she write down what she could have done/said better, what she could do in the future, and an apology. Cause sometimes when we try to discuss things, it just gets out of hand again.

You have some very good insight in to some of her behavior. I realize that with all she and her siblings have been thru, she has actually turned out pretty good. It could be much worse. But I also realize that as a grandma, I won't be around to guide her thru most of her adult years... and I want her to get off to a good start and not struggle like her mom has. Besides the two girls, they have an older brother who is 23 and lives out of state and a brother who is almost 15. The oldest was basically raised by his step mother and his mom's parents, and the 15 year old when to his bio father - who he didn't meet until he was in foster care. So four kids, four bio dads, and a mom with severe addicitons and behavior disorders. Thanks for the ideas. KSM