Forum and Gaslighting

Hello everyone,

It's been a while since I've posted, and I hope that you all are doing well and having a good 2010!

While not posting, I HAVE been lurking from time to time. Something that might be obvious but only hit me yesterday is the following: The main use of this forum for the 'victims' is probably to fight gaslightning. Once this occured to me, I could see it in many of the posts and my own thoughts and actions. It is the question of: "is it me" or "is this normal". That's why there's such a great relief (combined with pain) in the realization that the stories are so similar. Also, that would be why this forum is more than just a place to 'play victim' - it's a first step to seeing throught he gaslighting. For this purpose, the knowledge shared here is important too.

Just a thought, but I would like to read other people's views.

Absolutely right, and an astute observation there, AG!

This forum was where I first heard the term 'gaslighting', and up until that point I'd swallowed the party line that it was all my fault and that I was the damaged, dysfunctional, controlling one, to the point where when she pushed for us to start marriage counselling, I expected to be told how to 'deal with my jealousy'. It really opened my eyes to the fact that our relationship was NOT healthy.

I think that this forum needs to focus more on recovery via self-improvement and less on 'playing victim' as you put it, but realising that you are in fact a victim is a vital first step, and as such this forum is a valuable stepping stone. That's a topic for another thread, though.

i missed it. what is 'gaslighting' ?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaslighting

In essence, it is deliberately attacking someone's confidence in their own sanity by consistently challenging or denying their perception of reality. The term comes from a stage play where a husband tells his wife she's imagining it when the gas lights go dim and thus tries to convince his wife that she's going insane.

Hi TK,

I certainly agree that there should be a focus on self-improvement; realizing one is (and eventually was) a victim is just a necessary first step - and gaslighting can be devastating. As some other here have said though, something inside us made us vulnerable. That is not to say it's our fault - it could even be good qualities where we simply 'filtered' people in a bad or uninformed manner. Once you are aware, though, you have a responsiblity to take care of yourself - this is where the self-improvement comes in. In essence, in dealing with HPD, I take the general approach of "fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me". There are, of course, many proviso's - some people get caught more than once due to no fault of their own and one should be careful of not simply closing oneself down to other people in response to one disordered individual. So it's quite complicated, but my default approach would be as quoted above. While one is under the effect of gaslighting (and it can last a while, as you know), it is almost impossible to identify the real areas that need attention - one would simply be responding to a world created by the disordered individual and not to reality.

As a side note, I have to say that I have found your posts most insightful, helpful and generally well thought out and with a balanced perspective. I have come to consider you one of the 'senior' people on this forum (even though I know you won't). Whichever way, thanks for the postings!

Regards,
AG

Agree --

And one of the hardest things for me is when other people back up the HPD in the gaslighting attempt.

I've been fortunate in general; my friends, family and coworkers have all been immensely supportive of me and were never fooled by the HPD at all.

However, he does have a contingent of people that believe his alternate reality. Even now, with some of the latest developments in his self-destructive journey, these people are blaming his bad behavior on his recent "painful divorce".

Which, really, the only painful aspect of it for him has been his inability to "lose". I have done my best to keep it civil and quiet -- if nothing else, to clamp down on the drama -- and have not spoken ill of him.

But anyway, when other people jump in and reinforce the HPD's alternate reality, it is really hard to maintain the strength of character to know that you have a clear grasp on reality and even if your whole world says he's right, it doesn't make it so.

I'm here to say that it is possible, and not just because I've made it this far, but because others on this board have made it so much further than I have. And things really do get better...
caro

I imagine most folks, like me, were overwhelmed with the pervasive deceit from their HPD. You expect a 4 year old to deny coloring the wall with crayons, but not an adult's prolific lying. Was everyone else first hit with an HPD's gaslighting too? Few of us probably recognized it at first, but I've wondered if it's always the first weapon in their arsenal, no doubt used to perpetuate their facade?

Definitely Jaymack -

When we first got married, right off the bat he started complaining about what a bad wife I was .... poor housekeeper, not cooking enough, etc. Being a 'fixer', instead of getting defensive, I believed him and honestly tried to work on my deficiencies. Never even considered that he was the problem.

Later when we were having more obvious problems in the marriage, he would say it was because I was unstable, because of the family I come from, because of my behavior, etc. I distanced myself from my family and tried to work on my flaws.

Since the divorce, his family has repeated that last line - about my background (having divorced parents) being the reason we got divorced. Sounds plausible... and I do think it was a factor... but not in the way they're implying.

It really takes a while to sit up and say "No. I trust my own perceptions and that is not what is going on here."

Hi all:
I had only ever heard of Gaslighting on the Steely Dan track "Gaslighting Abbie" so was not sure what it was. Now I know (thanks TK...)! I would say it describes the one thing that i can not forgive from the relationship, because through it she attempted to steal my self-respect. Her saying I was paranoid, that I imagined certain things, trying to make me feel and seem crazy, saying my anger was displaced etc. Why would I accept to be considered crazy by her when no one else around me felt the same way. Of course she tried that until I made the efforts to catch her and her duplicity red handed, and i did catch her, several times in the last few months of the relationship. Facing that, just red cheeks retriever eyes, a cuddle, and off to bed where her Gaslighting perversity could be forgiven (so she thought!). As AlwayGrowing said "Fool me once, shame on you", "Fool me twice, shame on me". I wish it had been only twice. I can't forgive her because I cannot forgive myself, because I really was a puppet on a string for far too long, i kept going back when she promised she had changed! She had not! 4 years out and still fighting to accept her questionning my sanity, and the humiliation of the associated low punches (the gaslighting). I know it sounds awful but I still want to spit in her face, like on the day I put an end to it all, I didn't and should have, my heart is still full of spit for her, arrrghhh the frustration of it; just as well she took a post 6000KM away, out of sight, out of mind.

Cheers Musician

Hi Musician,
you seem to be relapsing a bit, maybe because of the seasonal triggers you've written about in other recent threads.

Musician924 wrote:the one thing that i can not forgive from the relationship, because through it she attempted to steal my self-respect. Her saying I was paranoid, that I imagined certain things, trying to make me feel and seem crazy, saying my anger was displaced etc. Why would I accept to be considered crazy by her when no one else around me felt the same way.

Musician924 wrote:I can't forgive her because I cannot forgive myself, because I really was a puppet on a string for far too long, i kept going back when she promised she had changed! She had not! 4 years out and still fighting to accept her questionning my sanity, and the humiliation of the associated low punches (the gaslighting). I know it sounds awful but I still want to spit in her face, like on the day I put an end to it all, I didn't and should have, my heart is still full of spit for her, arrrghhh the frustration of it; just as well she took a post 6000KM away, out of sight, out of mind.
Cheers Musician

The important thing is that she DID NOT steal your self-respect. Your anger was ALWAYS a preservation of self-respect.That you went back so many times is proof of your honor, and belief in other people's integrity, as well as in your own. Your reluctance to believe that a person you loved could be so shallow and deceiving is a sign of your depth and humanity. You have not spit in her face because your strength and integrity are strong.
Your sense of humiliation, pain, frustration, ego, are real, but they are healing. While you will never forget, you will feel compassion for her, precisely because she may NEVER heal, and feel the the real joy of real intimacy.
As usual, my words are directed towards myself, as well as to you, and others here.
All the best,
mindful