Question-does HPD really start with their childhood?

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Hi C & H,

OK, long story short...or maybe not so short....

My mother came from a very strict southern baptist home where it was known to get slapped out of your chair if you so much even looked at your father wrong. They were hard people and didn't show much love. After her brother died they showed even less love. My mother went looking for love at 16 and found my father, married him for 18 years and then divorced him. Now mind you my dad never loved my mother, but my mother sought love from him that was unattainable.

My father came from a very chaotic household and his parents pretty well let the kids rule the house and not too much structure and my dad developed what we now know as OCD which mostly is brought on by a disfunctional relationship with the mother(my grandmother). This was very true for them. He was always angry, even as a child. My father saw that my mother could be manipulated and was a people pleaser and he knew he found someone to control and dominate, so he married my mother.

These two people FOUGHT horrible for the whole 3 years they were together before marrying and staying together for 18 years of marriage or hell whichever you want to call it.

They proceeded to have four children to screw up while searching for their own happiness and got selfish and didn't care that we were the ones suffering.

I don't believe my mother bonded with me ever. I always wondered what she was like with me because from a very early age I did not feel love from her. And if you do some research you might find what others have that HPD is mostly probably developed as when a mother-daughter bond did not take. I looked like my father so he tormented my mother that I was his and I would never love him and my mother took it out on me. My dad then proceeded to cheat on her and left her for a woman with a name only one letter different from mine and she hated me for that. She even admitted a few years ago that she hated me because of my name and because I looked like my dad. But she doesn't really hate me I know and she is better to me now.

I thought I was my dad's spitting image and did anything to please him and he controlled me although I did not see it as control until I became an adult and got married and then my father still manipulated me into doing for him and my husband finally made me understand it was not right and not normal to drop my husband and run off to daddy any time he called two hours away. When I finally stood up to my dad, it was hell from then on out. But that was after I already showed signs of HPD all through high school. Of course I never heard of HPD until August of this year, but I certainly had the signs back then way more so than now.

I think girls become promiscuous when they don't have the father's attention, but I really and truly believe that we develop HPD because of lack of love from our mothers (at least for the girls) and then we compete for attention of men. Somehow, somewhere we learn to attract, seduce, and pull in those around us like a gravitational force that even WE don't know how to feel. Then we have love from all sorts of men and we can't decide who we want, and then we become the "monsters" that those on here describe us as... not all of them of course say that we are....... but basically we learn an instinct somewhere along the way and men pick up on that I guess. I can't explain that part because I am still looking for that answer myself.

Hope this helps.

S

Sorry forgot to put in my dad's background he always had OCD, but now has been diagnosed with SPD but I know for a fact that he has NPD too and possibly a hint of HPD as well. He for sure had the OCD when he was a kid...

It was hearing the diagnosis from the psych dr about the schitzoid this summer that led me to read about other PDs and find HPD and joined this board.

Hi Scarlett,

Thanks for the post....and the insight. I don't hate my ex or anyone that has a disorder. I am just trying to understand it better. So thanks so much for your post!!

I am trying to understand what you said. Namely thiis?..... Can you elaborate on it? What do you mean by men pick up on this?

"basically we learn an instinct somewhere along the way and men pick up on that I guess. I can't explain that part because I am still looking for that answer

?"

As far as the rest.....I suppose if Mom is distracted...so goes the family? Is that what you are trying to say? Was your Mom distrated as a result of thr pain your father caused? What issues did your Mom or father have in childhood? Is there more effected in your family? Is it her (Mom) or you Dad that caused this? Can an emotionally unavailable absentee Dad, screw up the family and cause it as well? Did your mother take out the frustration on you......she must have went through hell...so sorry.

I have so many things going through my mind as to the whys!! I seem to have this need to understand where it started!! So again, Thanks for the post...

I respect your honesty...maybe we can help find out your question.....I hope so, as you have added so much to this forum!!!

Thank you and I hope to help others too. Those might be difficult to answer, but will do my best in what I know. The thing is neither my mother, nor my father are completely truthful about the past. Similar stories, but totally different versions. My mother would instigate the violence with my dad, then when he would take it too far, she was the battered wife. STUPID, yes, but that is such the way it was....

Well, my father only hit me once my whole life and it was by accident other than regular spankings or whatever. I guess I did have my dad wrapped around my finger when I was little, but then he became more selfish with his own childhood paid and became an alcoholic. A bad one, but still didn't abuse us kids until my brother who is the baby got in his teens and they got pretty physical.

boys, guys, and then men later on in my teen years started basically "flocking" to me for a word to use about the time I was in 7th grade. I basically outgrew boys my own age and the older I got the older the guys and then men got. I dated 22-24 year olds by the time I was 16. I hated the high school drama, and I think I needed the maturity in men over boys who only wanted one thing. So I rarely ever dated anyone my own age and especially from my own school.

No matter where I was or where I went even when I wasn't aware that anyone was watching me, there always came a guy up to me asking my name or number or follow me to find out who I was and they didn't do that to my friends who were fairly attractive to pretty. I thought many girls were prettier than me, but I was the one that the guys would like. I didn't understand this back then and really don't now so much except that there has to be something we do or send off signals, etc. It caused a lot of pain in my life, but I caused more in the life of these guys and men that really loved me. I was young and didn't know what to do with all of that... power?? not sure what word that would be. I had many guys that would meet me and say I am perfect for them and whatever and I wasn't really the type to just make up something to please them or go along with what they wanted or pretend I liked there interest. I was the constant in every relationship because I would tell it outright and tell my likes and those haven't changed to this day.

I was explaining to someone today that my eyes were always the first thing that the guys noticed. They always said and wasn't just a first pick up line or something. They would say it constantly. Several of course described them in a way that I won't say on here . I became very aware of what just one look could do to get someone to come over to talk to me when I noticed them watching me. And on a normal basis I did not dress provacatively, just tshirt and jeans as most kids do. Sometimes of course at parties I would dress a little more skimpy than that, but nothing like in todays times. I think I honed in on a "skill" maybe that pulled in guys around me. It is a very overwhelming feeling to know that you can do this. So now as a married woman, I am careful not to do this and even more so since I joined this board because I explained to others that I still have the need to be desired. And I dress very conservatively, but still get hit on. Tattered pointed out that perhaps I have given out unconscious signals that I am available and this is why that happens, but that is my unanswered question of why that happens.

OK... now... mom was crazy before she got with dad but just wanted to be loved. Dad was crazy and wanted someone to control. Seems perfect right? no, he never gave her that love and she never loved him. He was the rebel and a very handsome one, and she was sort of plain and not very coordinated. She married him to spite her parents.

Mom SOO took it out on me more than any of the other kids except my brother later in life because he had my dad's same name and she would beat the crap out of him after I moved out and got married. She used to hit me, but I wouldn't fight back because I didn't want to hurt her . I always wanted her approval, but never got it until the last 8 years or so and I am 34. We talk all the time and she lives about 20 minutes from me and things are okay now. And I have discovered stuff about there marriage now that I am an adult that I couldn't talk with her before because I always was defensive of my father. Not now because I pretty much have cut my dad out once again for trying to be crazy and control me and I told him it isn't going to happen around me or my kids ever for them and ever again for me.

Our house was one big twisted ball of misery. BUT I will give them this that we never got molested or went without food. I have to give them that credit because there is always someone who had it worse.

My dad controlled his whole family and my grandmother catored to him. I think she did that because she felt she caused his OCD which they didn't have a name for. When I was pregnant with my oldest daughter she told me that my dad was angry in her belly he was born angry and stayed angry. BUT, my grandmother was an angry person. BUT, her dad told her when her mother died when she was 8 years old that he wished she had died instead so she was raised by her aunt and uncle.

So how far back do we want to disect this problem? I feel now that my grandmother was HPD. She looked sort of like Bette Davis in her younger years and was very a attractive drum major with very sexy legs. I have to smile at that one because I miss her dearly and she died in '94. I was the closest to her of all 16 grandkids, I was her favorite, and my dad's favorite of the 4 kids. I never understood playing favorites, but now more so that I am a mother I would never, nor could I ever choose one of my three over the other. BUT... girls were jealous of my grandma when she moved to the town of my grandpa and he was 7 years older than her and she married at 17. So I think it runs in the family and overall our family is or was attractive until most of them got on drugs or alcohol and pretty much ruined their looks and their lives. We don't go around that side much ever now. Only at funerals maybe.

My dad could charm anyone and then come home and make us all miserable. He was very handsome even at 40 he was in his best shape of his life after he quit drinking after the divorce but when my grandma died he went down hill.

I know I am going on, but trying to answer you as there is so much on each side that makes sense of how we ended up.

My older sister is first and foremost NPD, but has very strong HPD traits. She just married for the third time and her second wedding was just a year ago and she married a guy from the internet(2nd one from internet) that has been married five times before her. So, go figure. My younger sister has to be the most normal of us all and we even joke about that with my mom becuase she is so good and I just think she is beautiful even though she always tried to live up to me. I told her before that she is the most beautiful outside and inside of all of us. She still has some anger of course as do we all. My brother welll, he functions and works, but not too motivated to really get busy with his life and he has some issues too. BUT... none of us drink or drug. We all used to drink, but didn't want to end up like our dad. The psych dr. said that he probably always had the SPD, but due to years of excessive drinking that probably enhanced it to a non-functional level.

OK, I will quit for now... hope this helps.. anything else you want to know feel free to ask. I am the same way and want to get to the core of it however I feel that the core going in reverse order is a never ending search because with each generation brings it own set of WHYs to the table. Good luck.... S

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Wow, thanks for all that info, Scarlett!

And I dress very conservatively, but still get hit on. Tattered pointed out that perhaps I have given out unconscious signals that I am available and this is why that happens, but that is my unanswered question of why that happens.

I don't have the answers, just trying to figure it all out like the rest of us. But I do have a theory about this. I think it's basically that when you're young, late childhood to mid teens, you really need that love and acceptance from both your parents. Your body's undergoing all these changes which makes you very unsure of yourself and you need them reassuring you that it's normal and it's OK.

When you don't get that acceptance from your parents, you seek it wherever you can. In this situation, boys tend to act out. They become disruptive, antisocial, start fights, join gangs. Any attention and acknowledgement is better than none. But take the case of a pretty girl entering her teens, who's been neglected emotionally by her parents. She finds out by accident that giving out that 'signal', the body language that says 'I'm an available female looking for a mate', will get her all the attention she could ever possibly want. And so sending out that signal becomes a habit, a part of how she interacts with the world at all times. Teenage boys are still dealing with their own experience of adolescence and so aren't that good at picking up on this signal, but to older men it's like a siren's call.

I think this is why histrionics are always attractive. Unattractive girls never get the attention from guys in the first place, so they never associate that particular set of body language with approval and attention. As you said earlier:

I was young and didn't know what to do with all of that... power?? not sure what word that would be.

Power is exactly the right word for it. Over the course of a couple of years you went from being an ignored little girl whose mum hit her because her dad hit her mum, to being the queen of your own hive. And that's where the rest of the HPD behaviour comes from. The teenage years are where people really define themselves and learn how to make their way in the world. And the teenage years of an HPD teach them that they can get, or get away with, anything as long as they put out afterwards (or if the guy's a sucker, as long as they hint that they will).

Great post Tattered...and thanks Scarlett....I think he helped answew your question much better than I did!! lol

In the case of my ex, it was her father that caused all the upheaval in the family and was emtionally unavailable. The children witnessed some terrible hurtful behavior, plus he was emotionally abusive etc....

Is it possble my ex now "HATES" men, as a result of the abusive treatment of her father?

To indirectly get back at him, does she re-direct her frustration and anger out on any man that crosses her path?

Does reeling in her victims and than treat them like crap, releave the pain she and her family suffered as a result of her abusive Dad?

Also, does she seek attention, because her father didn't give her much attention or if so, it was usually negetive?

So she may hate men, but needs our attention. But in the end loves to see us suffer, to indirectly get back at her Dad?

Has anyone experienced this with thier HPD's background or have any thoughts on this? Looking for answers....

Thanks,

C&H

Hi C&H, Tattered, and all...

Tattered that was excellent and I never really looked at it that way of "queen of her own hive". But that nails it for me. I really was my own boss when I was a teen. I mothered my little brother and sister and did as I pleased. I never let anyone interfere with what i waned to do except my dad. But at the time didn't see it as control. I wanted to spend time with him and even gave up time with my friends to hang out with my dad.

When a boyfriend of the moment would get too controlling or try to boss me around I would slowly start breaking away from him and show him that I couldnt' be controlled but yet do it in such a way where they wouldn't be mad at me and still pining for me. But made it sound like there was some obstacle that was keeping us apart so they would blame the obstacle and not me because I really couldnt stand to hurt people.

C&H, you say it was her father that caused all of that YES, but it was her mother who chose to put your EX LAST while she put her father FIRST. So in reality it was still her mother who was emotionally detached from your ex that more than likely caused her HPD. And her father being the way he was more than likely caused your ex to do a number of things, but HPD I think came from what the mother caused. Promiscuity comes from a girl not having a good relationship with the father. ANd maybe she blames the father so she does punish other men in her life. Pulls them in and then drops the hammer to show them they can't do that to her. Even though they didnt' do it, he did. Just a theory...

And Tattered I do feel it was a power. If you have seen a movie called She's Out of Control with Tony Danza as the dad, it so hit me when I was a kid that it sort of felt like that for me. Except in the movie a good talk with her Daddy makes her understand the error of her ways and she does right after that. But the daughter turns 16 and gets her braces off and contacts from bulky glasses and becomes the latest hottie and guys falling all over her and she tells her dad it is kind of a kick having this power over the boys. I feel I had that power and it was very addictive power and controlled me and pulled me to do that. Never wanted to hurt anyone, but I did.

That was my point about the unattractive or even just below average girls born into a dysfunctional family as mine, what do they develop because someone that unattractive would never be able to "lure" in men around her. That is not putting them down, only saying that men are still looking at beautiful women no matter if they are HPD or not. Do they develop some other type of PD? Just wondering on that...

C&H I am glad that you do not hate your Ex. I am sure she never really meant to do any of those things to you, but no, it isn't her "out" that she did them. It just means YOU can know you did your part and that is all you could do and it is all on her, but she was broken before you ever knew her. I really hope you find your healing that you need. S

"C&H I am glad that you do not hate your Ex. I am sure she never really meant to do any of those things to you, but no, it isn't her "out" that she did them. It just means YOU can know you did your part and that is all you could do and it is all on her, but she was broken before you ever knew her. I really hope you find your healing that you need. SScarlett1939 "

I don't dislike or hate her is right. I agree, I think deep down she cried for help from me. I did not know at the time, about this problem of HPD. When I broke up with her, she said, I just want this part of my life to be over..I did not know what she meant at the time...but do now. It was a cry for help.

I wish I had know about this problem, as I still don't think she was beyond help, just a very confused person, as a result of her past. It is my only regret....but it is too late now, she has gone on to other men, forgetting me and the past. Too bad..as I feel for her. But I have to move on from it......and will. I have done all that I could.....

Scarlett....thanks for the post. I think we both took something away from this. I think my ex was alot like you...I don't think she realized the power attractive woman have over men, with just a look. How to restrain it and why she needed this power.......Hard to believe.

As tattered said, it is habit, but to add more to what he said, a learned behavior, as a result of your lack of needs being met from childhood, that tranferred into your teenage years. Than to adulthood that never went away, as you still sub-consiously send the signal.... It still validates you for something that lacked at home a long time ago....

The power of it over men, one glance made you feel powerful, and replaced you real need. Love from home.

I believe if you conquere and catch yourself doing the look and now recognize why you give it.... you will no longer need to seek this attention. Everytime you think you did it or about to give the look, think about what you will give up!! Is it not worth it? It is not worth what you suffered in the past. Live for the present, for the kids and your true loving man.

Just put that in your head and keep reminding yourself...So when you feel that urge, think of your kids and the man that stands beside you...think of the now...not the past..where your need came from.....If it is habit, it can be broken...smokers quit, drug addicts quit and it is not habit, but an addiction.......so can you stop.....I hope that makes senses....As tattared really pin point pointed it for you....all takes time, but knowing the cause, hopefully results in the understanding of how to stop..

Maybe tattared, has something to add, as far as trying to stop the look? To me, it is almost like it has to be treated not as a habit, but as an addiction....just a thought of course...

C&H