Histrionic history

I've been keeping a low profile of late, still reading the forum but also reading other things, clarifying my thoughts/feelings (and the conflict between them!) plus doing some 'coping' things (gym, some dates with other women - nothing serious, drinking!).

One thing I turned up was this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Succubus

I know many here like to use the vampire analogy, which I think a touch simplistic and cruel, and I know succubus is not a nice one either - people with HPD are not creatures - but there does seem to be a long history of female (especially - they get a raw deal!) and male (Incubus!) characters that society/'victims' have a hard time handling/understanding, hence the association with creatures - make what you can't understand 'other'.

What interests me is that the modern view of PDs as being persistent and difficult to change is echoed in the past - people knew there were differences (recognised professionally from 19th century) in how some people behaved, but all attempts at dealing with it seem to have led to very little useful advance/advice.

I find that this kind of helps me - if centuries of effort have led to very little practical progress, I don't feel so bad if I haven't made much after a few months! However, it does seem sad that the 'creature' analogy persists - it is understandable due to anger/hurt/confusion of 'victims', but not much use in moving past that stage (maybe just reinforces all the bad feelings).

Anyway, I am rambling on, but would be interested in people's thoughts on the persistence of PDs and the persistent difficulty of dealing with them, for both sufferers and 'victims' alike. Maybe it is an unbridgeable gap of understanding between two types of people, made worse by the illusion of bonding etc. in a relationship that then gets torn apart when the gap widens. So maybe we are all asking the impossible in trying to understand!?

Sucka,

It's funny that I also thought of a Succubus when dealing with my soon to be ex wife. LOOOONNNNGGGG history of doing this. She "dated" married boss for 2 1/2 years of our 4 1/2 year marriage! Caught her repeatedly-she wouldn't stop. Destroyed boss's marriage and mine. No remorse. Now she is in affair with new guy that I strongly suspect is married.

they really aren't like you or me. And, like the terminator, will never stop.

Hope you don't mind me bypassing your comments on the succubus analogy, but I wanted to address your last paragraph:

Anyway, I am rambling on, but would be interested in people's thoughts on the persistence of PDs and the persistent difficulty of dealing with them, for both sufferers and 'victims' alike. Maybe it is an unbridgeable gap of understanding between two types of people, made worse by the illusion of bonding etc. in a relationship that then gets torn apart when the gap widens. So maybe we are all asking the impossible in trying to understand!?

As far as I am concerned the best way to 'understand' the HPD is to just recognize that their only priority is themselves; that they are incapable of considering anyone else's needs or wants; that all of their actions are geared towards satisfying their individual objectives; also that they believe they are not responsible for their actions or any consequences of their actions.

I had begun to recognize that about my ex before I ever heard of histrionic personality disorder. And it still holds true. The only understanding you'll ever have in an HPD relationship is the understanding you gain when you realize that about them. There will never be any understanding BETWEEN the two of you at all.

In fact I think it is a really big error to try to understand their inner feelings, the source of the disorder, etc, as has been attempted on this forum and elsewhere. When the victim starts doing that, he is promoting the view that the HPD is not responsible for anything bad that happens to them.

I do still like the vampire / succubus analogies, especially when explaining to other people.... helps them, at least, to avoid the trap of trying to understand and excuse their behavior. Because you can't really understand or excuse a vampire, can you?

A little rambly myself this morning but I'm running short on time.... later, caro

As I was reading through this thread, I was somewhat taken aback when I saw the mention of "Succubus". I knew I heard this term somewhere before and then a light went off. I've grown so weary of searching for definitive answers about my ex-HPD and why I still feel the way I do. So I offer fellow travelers this tongue-in-cheek but succinct view of this perplexing issue....

http://www.southparkstudios.com/episodes/103561

Cheers...

Hey Anutha,

I do know that what the term "emotional vampire" and all of that implies. I do see how victims would call HPDs this as they want to view them in the worst possible light after the break up because if they can see any good in them at all, then it hurts worse to leave them or to be left by them.

That is not true in my case that the only person I think about is myself. Actually I don't even have time to think of myself on most days because the needs of everyone else comes first with me. I understand some want to view all HPD as we don't function in our little cloud of fantasy and imagination world in our heads, but in fact, I have more responsibility that I take care of on a daily basis than I could even explain.

You can't just get the "statistics" of HPD and run with it. I have a degree, a career of 12 years, my degree I completed in 3 years, I have been married (all with it's ups and downs) for 16 years and made it past the worst years of our lives and are happy now, I gave birth to (without any paid meds whatsoever-and yes I am proud of that fact because they were worth every ounce of pain), three wonderful girls, we spend lots of family time together on the weekends, I work full time, but get them to every function that they have and organize all of our schedules to make sure everyone is where they need to be, my husband doesn't worry that I am hairbrained and can't function as a lot of "HPD"s seem to be, I cook, clean, laundry, organize things at work, very dependable in all aspects of my life, and that is just the top of what I do in my life. And at no time EVER do I tell my family.............. leave me alone, I have to have my "alone" time!!! To just take care of myself!! I can't even sit down and hardly read a book because there is no extra time. I have to download them onto my ipod and listen in the car on my work travels.

So, you can't gell me that everything is true about HPDs. I have always tried to better myself no matter what age I was. When I realized something wrong with myself I fixed it. It also says that HPDs tend to become hooked on alcohol as a coping mechanism. WELL, when my father called me up cussing me out when I was pregnant in a drunken rage and told me I would be just like him, I said, we'll just see about that. And it has been almost 13 years since I last took a drink. And i wasn't even hooked on it, just drank occasionally. But, I didn't ever want there to be a point to be tempted to become like him and do that to my husband and kids of what we had to endure growing up. I've said before on here I am a fixer. if you ask me for help, I am going to try to give you a fix no matter who you are.

CHOICES. I have said that before. yes, it may take longer for some HPDs to understand or even decide if they want to be better, but THEY CAN MAKE THE CHOICE to be better. We all have a choice in life to do good or bad.

But again, an HPD DOES know something is wrong, but they don't even know how to type in the symptoms on the internet because it is scary to admit they have a problem. If anything it isn't denial to themselves that something is wrong, it is denial to YOU NON's that is the biggest obstacle And if you all are as judgemental to your HPDs as you are to total stranger HPDs on here, then maybe that is part of the problem. It is a "walk on eggshell" experience at first, but once you point out to them that YOU are not going to tolerate the behavior now that they know what HPD IS and that they do those things, then the HPD doesn't have the "out" anymore to continue hurting you.

Don't you see??? By you NON's NOT telling them, hey, this is what I think you have, I love you dearly and want us to be together forever, but the only way we can is by you getting help because you fit X amount of critieria and maybe this is why you continue to do the things you do to me........ YOU GIVE THEM the excuse to stay in that HPD rutt because they don't know what is wrong with them or what to do, only that something is wrong.

If only I could show you a video of my life in a timeline, you would see there is hope for some. But there could be hope for many, but someone should step up to the plate and say to the HPDs, this is what you have, hope you get better, good luck, AND THEN WALK OUT THE DOOR instead of walking out before you tell them.

I am curious as to how many non's on here did anything like that before they "cut loose their succubus vampire"??

also, I am curious as to HOW DID YOU FIND this site? did you just type in symptoms....... cheating, attention, etc. What caused you to find out about HPD and how did you go about it?

I spent two years on a site devoted to healing from infidelity. It is the largest site (for that) in the world, I'm pretty sure.

BUT, of 25,000 members......... and yes I've read every "story", only about 10 had a wife or husband as strange as my ex was.

finally someone told me she sounded HPD (extreme HPD) anf NPD.


I started looking for info and found this site.


On the other site 99% were married 10 0r 20 years before somone got bored and cheated.

My (first) "wife" cheated the second week of our "marriage".........


So this site here is where I belong.


And Scarlett......... all HPD's are not the same.


You seem better than any who have been here.


Your husband is lucky.

AnuthaSucka wrote:One thing I turned up was this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Succubus

Very, very interesting post... As you point out, the traditional HPD behaviours mesh perfectly with what is expected from a succubus. They appear out of nowhere, seduce you, suck you dry of confidence, emotional energy, and sometimes friends and cash as well. They they disappear off into the night as if they never existed, leaving you wondering just what the hell happened.

Personally I've never agreed with the vampire analogy. For one, vampires kill their 'hosts'. For two, when the host recovers, they transform into a vampire. Neither of these fit HPD behaviour, where as succubi do, down to a T.

Scarlett1939 wrote:Don't you see??? By you NON's NOT telling them, hey, this is what I think you have, I love you dearly and want us to be together forever, but the only way we can is by you getting help because you fit X amount of critieria and maybe this is why you continue to do the things you do to me........ YOU GIVE THEM the excuse to stay in that HPD rutt because they don't know what is wrong with them or what to do, only that something is wrong.

Scarlett, I think you're exactly right. The problem that us 'nons' face is that HPDs typically have zero self-awareness and a very strong denial defense. If we just sat them down, said "you can be a wonderful woman but you're destroying our relationship by inappropriately sexualizing your friendships", they'll spit in our face and then run. Any suggestion, however small and however lovingly worded, that there might be something wrong with them is met with denial and demonizing the person who suggested it. They've protected what scraps of self-worth they have left with denial and repression for their whole non-infant life, to the point where now they can't actually process any negative thought about themselves. The denial applies just as much to their own thoughts, feelings and behaviour as it does to anything anyone else tells them - and if you aren't even able to let yourself think 'there could be something wrong with me' then how can you possibly believe it when someone else says it?

You seem far more self-aware than many 'normal' women I've talked to, let alone HPDs. Have you always been like this? Or were you in denial until some event shocked you out of it? What was it that made you finally realise that you needed to work on your own behaviour and emotional processing? Was it something your husband did or did you do it by yourself? I'm struggling to find a way to get through my wife's protective blanket of denial in such a way that she decides to actually listen and change, rather than simply spending a while hating herself before snapping the shields back up and going on as normal. (Cue link to that article about the difference between sorrow, remorse, and true contrition - she's been remorseful and sorrowful plenty of times, but contrite? Never yet.)

Edit:

But there could be hope for many, but someone should step up to the plate and say to the HPDs, this is what you have, hope you get better, good luck, AND THEN WALK OUT THE DOOR instead of walking out before you tell them.

This is exactly what I will do, if it comes to that. I'll print out the DSM criteria and a bunch of links to online HPD resources and hand them to her, and say "this is why you can't have nice things". I'll beg her to go to a therapist, not for my sake because I'm already gone, but for her own sake so she doesn't have to continue hurting herself and others.

Very interesting. I think there are similarities, but that HPD is rather more complex. I have a tendency to agree with Scarlett that there must be hope with HPD, but i agree also with some of the other posts in that it depends upon the severity of the condition. When i compare Scarlett's posts to Fountain Head's posts, I see vast differences in the content, and to be honest some of what you write Fountain Head (in case you read this...) makes my skin creep. Nothing against Fountain Head in particular, its just that her actions appear absurd and horrible to me.

I think the part of the issue with HPD is that it is complex. I had no idea of the existence of this condition when that whole mess with my X was unfoldiing before me, I had no idea what to say nor what to do to stabilize the situation except call it off, because it was the last of several cycles of build then destroy. It was horrible for me to call it off because i wanted so much to be with her, yet I thought events could turn dramatic if things continued, and survival instincts took over my side. I think my intuition said leave or die, things were that bad. It was 18 months later when HPD was finger pointed, and far to late for me to even want to try again. By that time my only objective was to unravel myself from all the mess that it had left in my head.

There has to be hope, its just unfortunate that so little is commonly known about HPD that by the time we get here, for most of us its too late. Have a nice weekend, Musician.

A little wiser,

I am so very truly sorry about your HPD doing that to you. And I do believe that you read every story on there. Thank you for letting me know how you found about HPD and this site. I really wondered that when I first joined that so many people know about HPD, but seemed to be in hindsight, not during a real time relationship with an HPD.

So that makes sense. Thank you for being helpful to me as I hope I am being helpful to others.

I hope that my husband thinks he is lucky, even despite the pain I caused him in the past. He said once that he saw my potential and I am glad that he did.

Well wishes to you and have a good weekend.

Thanks Scarlett,


My HPD was many years ago. I don't feel too much pain anymore..........just still amazed at her actions.

And still wanting to know for sure what she was trying to accomplish.


My 2nd wife is wonderful, .............and my kids.


I'll just always wonder what the heck that first one was thinking.


This site is helping me to understand.

you have a good weekend Too!

ALWN