What about a NPD with a HPD?

I have attached some recent readings that i have been doing regarding NPD. I think that as a HPD I am attracted to these types of men MORE than anyone else....why? read below....it is simple. It is a conquest that will never end....it just keeps going and going. NPD's inflict pain on the HPD and the HPD never really conquers these men....what do you all think?


KX - The man I was talking about earlier is definitely NPD!


The following information has been found at:
http://www.healthyplace.com/COMMUNITIES ... _13_1.html

12. Male Narcissists and Women

Narcissists abhor and dread getting emotionally intimate and they regard sex as a maintenance chore, something they have to do in order to keep their source of secondary supply content.

Moreover, many narcissists tend to engage in FRUSTRATING behaviours towards women. They will refrain from having sex with them, tease them and then leave them, resist flirtatious and seductive behaviours and so on. Often, they will invoke the existence of a girlfriend/fiancee/spouse (or boyfriend/etc. - male and female are interchangeable in my texts) as the "reason" why they cannot have sex/develop a relationship. But this is not out of loyalty and fidelity in the empathic and loving sense. This is because they wish (and often succeed) to sadistically frustrate the potential partner.

BUT

This pertains ONLY to cerebral narcissists. NOT to somatic narcissists and HPDs who use their BODY, sex and seduction/flirtation to extract narcissistic supply from others.

6. Narcissists are Misogynists

Narcissists are misogynists. To them women as mere sources of SNS (secondary narcissistic supply). The feminine chores are to accumulate past NS and release it in an orderly manner, so as to regulate the fluctuating flow of primary supply. Otherwise, cerebral narcissists are not interested in women. Most of them (myself included) are a-sexual (engage in sexual acts very rarely, if at all). They hold women in contempt and abhor the thought of being really intimate with them. Usually, they choose submissive women, well below their level, to perform these functions. This leads to a vicious cycle of neediness, self contempt (how come I need this inferior woman), and abuse directed at the woman. When primary NS is available - the woman is hardly tolerated, as one would reluctantly pay the premium of an insurance policy in good times.

Now, this would hardly constitute an attraction to a "sexy, smart and powerful woman" would it?

Those who are attracted to narcissists must suffer from an underlying mental problem (though I do not think that two narcissists are likely to get along well together).

Heterosexual narcissists desire women as any other red blooded male does (even more so due to the special symbolic nature of women in the narcissist's life - humbling a woman in acts of faintly sadomasochistic sex is a way of getting back at mother). But he is frustrated by his inability to meaningfully interact with them, by their apparent emotional depth and powers of psychological penetration (real or attributed), and by their sexuality. Their incessant demands for intimacy are perceived by him as a threat. He recoils instead of getting closer. The narcissist also despises and derides sex, as we said before. Thus, caught in a seemingly intractable repetition complex, in approach-avoidance cycles, the narcissist becomes furious at the source of his frustration. Some narcissists set out to do some frustrating of their own. They tease (passively or actively), frustrate, or pretend to be asexual and, in any case, they turn down, rather cruelly, any attempt by a woman to court them and to get closer.

Sadistically, they tremendously enjoy their ability to frustrate the desires, passions, and sexual wishes of women. It endows them with a feeling of omnipotence and with the pleasing experience of potent malevolence. Narcissists are regularly engaged in frustrating all women sexually - and in frustrating significant women in their lives both sexually and emotionally. Somatic narcissists simply use women as objects: use and discard. The emotional background is identical. While the cerebral narcissist punishes through abstention - the somatic narcissist penalizes through excess.

The narcissist's mother kept behaving as though the narcissist was and is not special (to her). The narcissist's whole life is a pathetic and pitiful effort to prove her wrong. The narcissist constantly seeks confirmation from others in his life that he IS special - in other words, that he IS. Women threaten this. Sex is "bestial" and "common". Nothing "special or unique" about sex. Women are perceived by the narcissist to be dragging him to their level, the level of the lowest common denominator of intimacy, sex, and human emotions. Everybody and anybody can feel, mate, and breed. There is nothing to set the narcissist apart and above others in these activities. And yet women seem to be interested ONLY in these pursuits. Thus, the narcissist emotionally believes that women are the continuation of his mother by other means and in different guises. They are only interested in reducing them to their level.

The narcissist hates women virulently, passionately, and uncompromisingly. His hate is primal, irrational, the progeny of mortal fear, and of sustained abuse. Granted, most narcissists learn how to suppress, disguise, even repress these untoward feelings. But their hatred does swing out of control and erupt from time to time. It is a terrifying, paralysing sight. It is the true narcissist.

Wow, the more and more I am reading about this - it makes TOTAL sense to me. An NPD is harder to obtain than a ASPD or anyone else. A NPD REFUSES to give the attention to an HPD and therefore the HPD ends up in a downward spiral fighting for the validation that they need. This is EXACTLY what is happening with my male friend and myself.....He is absolutely an NPD.

To any NPD's out there - how can I get this NPD's attention? Is there anything that I can do? Cause sex is meaningless and that what I know the best....Please help me, this has been the MOST frustrating and invalidating experience of my LIFE in this arena of conquests and challenges.

Digital.Noface is what the book Emotional Vampires refers to as a Narcissistic Superstar mylife.

Read over his posts and see if you see your man in him in a big way.

The other type of Narcissist described is the Narcissistic Legend.

The difference between the two is digital can make most of his NPD dreams come true whereas the NPD legend has to live out mental fantasies in order to survive.

Also as a therapist I'm sure you know the line between ASPD and NPD is at times razor thin.

An NPD is grandiose while a ASPD is callous and very calculating and loves to play games and infact of Cluster B they are the most efficient at everything.

That might help you seperate the two if nothing else works.

The only exception to the efficiency rule is if someone manipulates a Narcissist into believing achieving a certain thing is absolutely necessary for them to maintain their self worth.

An N will go the distance literally put their life on the line to achieve their goal when it comes to something that is necessary to achieve to keep their sense of self worth and self love going strong.

That is the only time they can possible out perform an ASPD in anything.

Edit: Also in the book Emotional Vampires Al Bernstein goes onto say that an NPD and a passive aggressive histrionic are a match made in hell and don't get along at all. I'm not sure now which type of NPD he said didn't get along with a passive aggressive Histrionic but its clearly not your type of HPD mylife as I believe you to be what Al referred to as a ham it up histrionic. The type that puts on a big show to get attention and whatever HPD needs you have.

mylife wrote:Wow, the more and more I am reading about this - it makes TOTAL sense to me. An NPD is harder to obtain than a ASPD or anyone else. A NPD REFUSES to give the attention to an HPD and therefore the HPD ends up in a downward spiral fighting for the validation that they need. This is EXACTLY what is happening with my male friend and myself.....He is absolutely an NPD.

To any NPD's out there - how can I get this NPD's attention? Is there anything that I can do? Cause sex is meaningless and that what I know the best....Please help me, this has been the MOST frustrating and invalidating experience of my LIFE in this arena of conquests and challenges.

I disagree. NPDs and HPDs are pretty much the same. NPD = Male, HPD = Female. You never see two HPDs together, think Paris Hilton... My little Paris Hilton (that's to you my_life) nor will you see two Narcs together because they will fight each other for the top dog spot. If you read very closely and think about social gender normals of Male and Female, you will see very little difference between those two PDs. If a NPD/HPD were to hook up, it will be an extremely volitile relationship. NPDs are interested in masculine things: Power, Order, Performance, Strength, Aggression HPDs are interested in feminine things: Attraction, Drama, Attention, Sensualness, Pleasure, Inability to drive a car. If you read carefully both are very similar in similar 2 dimensional game tactics. When they deal with a personality like mines, it's like playing chess except with me pointing a gun right under their head.

They indeed are the same in many ways but the thing is there are two types of narcissists and two types of HPD's and out of those two there are the type of NPD and HPD that go very well together.

Sam Vaknin though not always completely truthful has a very good write up on this on his site.

In the article he talks about cerebral and somatic narcissists hooking up together but I think its only if one NPD is the other type like it couldn't be two cerebrals or two somatics interested in eachother or some such it has to be one cerebral and one somatic and cerebral means NPD focused on the mind and making themselves out to be smarter than they are at times to get their NS and somatic NPD's who are most strongly identified with being the same as HPD's in many ways using their bodies to get their NS.

I think Sam says that he considers HPD's to be somatic NPD's but still NPD's are different than HPD's overrall in that they are very grandiose while the Histrionic is primarily sexual hence the seperate DSM diagnosises.

So my verdict is two NPD's of the different types cerebral and somatic could hook up and have a good long lasting relationship while two HPD's of either of their type that being passive aggressive and disingenuous anti social couldn't work because HPD's themselves act vulnerable and want a strong non caring male partner. Two vulnerable acting people aren't going to want a vulnerable partner obviously if its their PD's game to get a strong non caring person to balance them out.

I saw this and wanted to bring it to the front again. A lot to think about

Hah, I never saw this one. Heh; 'Narcissistic Superstar', Wooot.

Anyhow, yes, NPDs are well suited to HPDs in that they completely own them. However, in my experience the relationships don't tend to last, because Ns just can't handle the absolute insufferability of HPDs, and possibly their pathetic attempts to steal the limelight with their BS.

Let me detail my experience. A few years ago, in my NPD prime, I briefly went out with an HPD. She was kind of cute, and a little bit gothic, though she would never admit that (something I used to have a slight fancy for- in moderation). Anyhow, we were both involved in the musical. I was one of the leads, and she an extra/chorus member. Things were great from the outset . Anyhow, she was deliciously easy to ensnare, much to the benefit of my reputation of my onlooking friends (I'd essentially put a wager on my success). I'd asked about her, and all of my firends said she was a little odd, and none of them had any experience with her, or known of anyone going out with her.

After the breifest levels of water testing, I knew I could take whatever I wanted. So, after giving her a few selective on-stage glances, during a scene change, I pounced, wordless, and we made out amongst all of the clamouring crew and actors, only to break in a hurry before anything could be said. After that, I deliberately left early out the back door, so as to have no contact until the next rehearsal, and leave her hanging. I was at boarding school at the time, so I generally wasn't accessible outside of school, either.

Anyhow, the next few rehearsals were pretty manic, with us slipping away for well-advertised 'sessions', crowned by my lifting her up against a nearby wall and making out in her school (her legs wrapped around me! What a stunt. You must remember I am at a conservative boarding school, visiting a conservative girls boarding school), just in view of the windows of the rehearsal stage. Everyone saw, and I got the greatest applause upon re-entry of the rehearsal hall (she pretended to be embarassed, but she loved it too). Too bad it wasn't about her.

Then, after she had my number, she was endlessly calling me afterhours in the boarding tower, with her endless needy needy $#%^. Wah wah wah. What drove her mad was the way I would tell her to get over it, or that I wasn't interested. "Look, I understand you want to tell me how horrible your life is, but I just don't care for that. Remember, if you are upset, you are the one with the problem. Why don't you start writing a diary or something? Anyhow sweetheart, have a nice night, I am going to go play some D&D with the boys *click*" AHhahahah. It was gold. She would call right back in obviously forced tears, and I would just dismiss and hang up (without being truly aggressive enough for her to feel attacked, just hopeless).

Anyway, this continued for a few weeks, to the point she was desperate, and getting more annoying than she was fun. She was walking all the way to my school everyday after school, just to make out with me and beg for more. Ha! like I'd risk suspension or expulsion doing that for her (she'd be like "Aren't I worth the risk?" and I'd be like "No, you are not. almost, but not quite"). So, anyhow, it all culminated when she threw away her last ace (as if I couldn't have taken it from her anyway), and attempted to tease me with "So I was considering virginity, and I've decided that I'm quite bored with it", to which I gave as little response as was possible to (possibly a raised eyebrow and a distracted look to the horizon), so she clarified "Would you be interested in doing us both a favour and-" I interrupted "Ha! A favour? You gotta be kidding. Virgin sex is terrible, so unsure, awkward, passionless, uncomfortable, painful, gross, often bloody, unexperienced, selfish, and just generally undesirable. No, I'm sorry dearest, I definitely understand your desire to lose such an unbecoming burden, but I am not the one who will do you that duty. I prefer sex with experienced girls, for the simple reason that it is of higher quality. Don't worry though, most men have a purile fascination with 'popping cherries', so you shouldn't find it difficult to find volunteers. Plus, the un-restrictive nature of our relationship allows for this kind of activity. So run along, I understand. Maybe we can talk about it later, after you have some notches on your belt."

BWAHAHAHA you should have seen the look on her face. She just offered what she believe to be her most valuable asset to me on a silver platter, and I knocked it back! Jesus what a laugh. Anyhow, as great as it was, it also ruined any further comparative NS, so I decided to finish it off in style a few days later. I broke up with her citing that "I am an ambitious young man, with a great future ahead. It is only fair, for the both of us, that we break up. How guilty would you feel holding me back? Imagine that hanging over your head. Anyway, it was good, and in many ways, we aren't breaking up, because we were never going out (a label she long craved),instead, we merely modify the terms of our undefinable and dynamic relationship. Henceforth, our paths split somewhat. Don't be afraid to talk to me though, after all, we are still friends " Ohohoho, it was beautiful. It broke her in two. She begged for a reason, and still occasionally does.

Months afterwards, she went out with one of my friends, who was severly whipped by her histrionic games. Directly in front of him at parties, when we were talking, she would come and interrupt, sit on my lap, and start asking me why I broke up with her (I would feed her dismissive BS, and dump her on the couch. I don't like her upsetting my friends, though he was an idiot to not piss her off). To this day, though admittedly less so, she still is haunted by our 3 week affair, occasionally asking about it 'in retrospect' though we have little contact since school and me moving away. She did want to come to the bucks night of my upcoming wedding (and the wedding itself). Ha, as if.

It might seem at first that the NPD male and the HPD female are a perfect match for one another.

At first and for a time this might be true.

But I believe the relationship (or interaction as I've read somewhere) is ultimately doomed. A match made in Hell!

There will develope a struggle for attention that will escalate to biblical proportions!

The first 6-12 months will be exhilarating for them. Soon "the new" will wear off. Familiarity breeds boredom in both the NPD and the HPD as both are hard-wired for failure.

Their own inherent neediness, their constant need for supply, will tear them apart.

Failure is part and parcel of these PD's.

maniac or anyone for that matter.......is it really true that hpd's have an inability to drive a car? Sheesh.........do you know how many accidents my daughter has had. Too many to mention. I was already convinced she is HPD......but this really got me thinking.

I have always refused to ride with her.........it scares me.

ccumm36D wrote:It might seem at first that the NPD male and the HPD female are a perfect match for one another.

At first and for a time this might be true.

But I believe the relationship (or interaction as I've read somewhere) is ultimately doomed. A match made in Hell!

There will develope a struggle for attention that will escalate to biblical proportions!

The first 6-12 months will be exhilarating for them. Soon "the new" will wear off. Familiarity breeds boredom in both the NPD and the HPD as both are hard-wired for failure.

Their own inherent neediness, their constant need for supply, will tear them apart.

Failure is part and parcel of these PD's.

Yes and no. The NPD gets everything he needs from an HPD, more than that, he gets too much. Once she starts worshipping you, what use is she?

A better match, is NPD with BPD (whose hot-cold BS keeps the relationship going, in an on-off cycle). Note the difference between the HPD's "I love you, love me" and the BPD's "I hate you, love me". Critical.