HPD actions: deeply repressed anger or simply a thrill?

HPD actions: deeply repressed anger or simply a thrill?

Trying to look at the world from an hpd’s perspective is confusing and difficult for someone who does not have the personality disorder. I don’t think any of the victim’s of an hpd will ever be able to fully grasp the why’s and the how’s. It is outside of our realm of reasoning and therefore makes little if no sense.

I read somewhere that those with hpd tend to view others as stronger than them. I know now in hindsight that the hpd who targeted me must of saw me as stronger and more powerful than her and therefore a worthy target of manipulation. But, I saw her in a different light. I saw her as a beautiful person that I wanted to get to know better. We looked at the world thru different eyes. Her eyes viewed the world with mistrust and strategies to conquer others. I approached her with openness and trust.

The weird thing about it is now that I am aware that I was targeted (I didn’t find out until after I had fallen for her and removed myself from her life) I feel weaker as a result and I now view her as, in a sense, stronger and more powerful than me. She was able to one-up me. It almost feels like she sapped the strength out of me to fill up her own low supply of power and flipped the switch on me.

It is estimated that 3% of the general population has hpd. So in my efforts to understand hpd I have tried to imagine what the world would be like with a reversal in numbers. Try to imagine a world where 97% of the population has hpd and only 3% are hpd symptom free. What would the world be like? To my estimations everyone would be manipulating, seducing and charming each other but none of it would mean anything. The words commitment, honesty and depth would not be included in the dictionary. Everyone would be seething with jealous against everyone else’s successes, etc. etc.

Now imagine if the 97% thought that everyone was an hpd. I know this may be confusing but stick with me here...so the 3% could wander around the world undetected because none of the hpd’s had ever really considered that there could be anyone unlike them. Now imagine that the 3% non-hpd’s had been hurt systematically over and over again by the hpd’s and because nobody knew they existed they could play evil games with the hpd’s and basically beat them at their own game.

My question is: would they (the non-hpd’s) do it? My other question is: if it is true, as some psychologists say it is, that those with hpd view themselves as weak people in a world of stronger people are they (the hpd’s) essentially just striking out before they can be struck down? Because I have to admit that there is part of me (that if I was part of this 3%) that could play mind games on hpd’s and manipulate their souls, minds, hearts and spirits without anyone knowing I was doing it and get away with it I would do it! If I lived in this world I would set my sights on crushing and emotionally destroying at least one hpd.

I can identify that the obvious basis of this desire to crush an hpd is anger brought forth by the manipulation I endured. Therefore my final question is - I am wondering if the real root of the hpd’s need to hurt, manipulate and destroy others is a deep and unresolved anger towards the world and a feeling of isolation/separation and helplessness in a world that they believe and view to be so much more stronger than them?

Are they so deeply hurt and wounded that they would strike out at the world with the two most powerful weapons known to mankind (sexuality) combined with helplessness (praying on the human ability to pity and want to take care of the helpless) in order to strike out and crush the world that they believed has hurt them so much – in the same way we are deeply hurt and wounded by the hpd’s treachery and would love to get even with them? Or is it simply that they get a thrill of hurting others or a combination of both?

"Trying to look at the world from an hpd’s perspective is confusing and difficult for someone who does not have the personality disorder. I don’t think any of the victim’s of an hpd will ever be able to fully grasp the why’s and the how’s. It is outside of our realm of reasoning and therefore makes little if no sense."

Well that is true for anyone that has ever hurt us in life HPD or not as we can't read anyone's mind so unless a person tells us why they did something hurtful to us we'll never know with absolute certainty why we were victimized by them and we'll just have our best guesses to go on.

I personally wanted to know the why and how of my HPD experience so badly I took the educated guess route by talking to every sufferer in the Cluster B category and I'm satisfied that I have got the answer that I was looking for which was probably the truth of things for my case.

I can only hope my fellow victims can find their own measure of peace after their experience as I have.

"I read somewhere that those with hpd tend to view others as stronger than them. I know now in hindsight that the hpd who targeted me must of saw me as stronger and more powerful than her and therefore a worthy target of manipulation."

That tends to be the initial draw. That or some perceived status or fame of yours she judged she could leech off of no matter how great or how meager that fame or status was.

"But, I saw her in a different light. I saw her as a beautiful person that I wanted to get to know better. We looked at the world thru different eyes. Her eyes viewed the world with mistrust and strategies to conquer others. I approached her with openness and trust."

You probably saw a beautiful sweet girl on the surface as I did in my experience. A gentle girl you said to yourself who couldn't hurt anyone or anything. How wrong we were. Sociopaths don't always come waving a bloody butcher knife with a crazed look on their face like the movies depict. Nope in real life most of em of the female persuasion anyway just bat their eye lashes and act like they need us triggering the protect and provider instinct and we are trapped. In the males case a great smile and a gift of conversational story telling does the job for them to trap their unlucky female victims.

"The weird thing about it is now that I am aware that I was targeted (I didn’t find out until after I had fallen for her and removed myself from her life) I feel weaker as a result and I now view her as, in a sense, stronger and more powerful than me."

You probably feel humiliated as most victims of Cluster B report feeling.

Humiliated that you were fooled into loving this creature who only viewed your relationship together as a game or an ego boost.

Well perhaps she is more powerful in a way but only more powerful in being a liar and a manipulator but thats about it and something not at all to be proud of.

"She was able to one-up me. It almost feels like she sapped the strength out of me to fill up her own low supply of power and flipped the switch on me."

She didn't one up anyone. To truly beat you at a game you both had to be playing it. You were being honest. She was lying and faking. You had no chance to win a game you didn't know was taking place. To say she one upped you is like a a guy playing checkers by himself saying he beat the guy in the next room reading a newspaper at it when the guy with the newspaper wasn't even playing the game with him. Its as simple as that. Sociopaths aren't really game winners though they think it. They are con artists and con artists don't win games. They con.

Also yeah just about everyone who has ever dealt with a Cluster B unawares of what they were dealing with be it in a long term friendship or short term relationship after either of those things ends they almost always report feeling drained of energy and that fact is confirmed in Emotional Vampires. They do take a lot out of you.

"It is estimated that 3% of the general population has hpd."

Personally I and others think the truth is a lot higher than that especially in America.

"So in my efforts to understand hpd I have tried to imagine what the world would be like with a reversal in numbers. Try to imagine a world where 97% of the population has hpd and only 3% are hpd symptom free. What would the world be like?"

It'd be one hell of a selfish and callous world thats for sure and the parenting would foster the development of Anti Social Personality Disorder as I read in Without Conscience something that says the parenting of a generation determines how anti social the next generation will be and even though there has not been one specific overriding cause for the development of any Cluster B Personality Disorder two theories are physically abusive parenting or neglectful parenting can produce such children and in a world of HPD's I'd bet anything that most of the children would suffer severe neglect while mommy and daddy are out partying and cheating on eachother and killing themselves with drugs and other self destructive distractions.

"To my estimations everyone would be manipulating, seducing and charming each other but none of it would mean anything. The words commitment, honesty and depth would not be included in the dictionary. Everyone would be seething with jealous against everyone else’s successes, etc. etc."

That too.

"Now imagine if the 97% thought that everyone was an hpd. I know this may be confusing but stick with me here...so the 3% could wander around the world undetected because none of the hpd’s had ever really considered that there could be anyone unlike them. Now imagine that the 3% non-hpd’s had been hurt systematically over and over again by the hpd’s and because nobody knew they existed they could play evil games with the hpd’s and basically beat them at their own game.

My question is: would they (the non-hpd’s) do it?"

Well from talking to many ASPD's I've concluded that a lot of their behaviour that appears odd to us is because they view the rest of the world as the true sociopaths that they have to be on guard against hurting them so hence the intense paranoia they exhibit and the get you before you get me mentality.

If we're to assume by your question that everyone victimized by HPD's in this scenario is normal and non Cluster B personality disordered I think many of the normals would be very angry and wanting to make a backlash against the HPD's and would do it with incredible effeciency because they'd come to know the game so well.

Others who are more empathic and non confrontational even after all the HPD abuse that has been heaped on them would listen to their conscience and just combat HPD in a more kind and understanding manner provided they could find one as they would realize these HPD's minds are disordered and that is what has majorly caused all the harm to come to the normals and violence or getting back at HPD's in other ways wouldn't really change anything except making them get a temporary wave of satisfaction until they realized that the HPD didn't learn anything from the lesson they were taught by the vengeful normal so another approach would have to be taken and one that would encourage thinking on the HPD's part as that is the major part of the treatment for their disorder. Helping them think better and more clearly basically.

"My other question is: if it is true, as some psychologists say it is, that those with hpd view themselves as weak people in a world of stronger people are they (the hpd’s) essentially just striking out before they can be struck down?"

Perhaps some of them afflicted with NPD as well I would say might have this mindset but my opinion on a severe HPD is they hurt people by getting rid of them once they feel they have conquered you and its not much more reason than that though we feel like there should be more to it.

To realize you were disposed of like a piece of garbage simply for loving someone who seemed to want your love and come closer to you by getting it is unbelievable. It stretches the very fabric of our minds to think someone could treat us this way but it is part of the HPD disorder. Conqueor and move on.

Once again the striking before struck down mentality moreso goes with ASPD though it can also go with NPD in the sense of the N thinking I'll squash this larva before it can become a big annoying fly lol whereas an ASPD will say to themselves this person is a threat and must be eliminated because they would eliminate me if given half the chance so same mentality but a bit different wording for each disorder.

"Because I have to admit that there is part of me (that if I was part of this 3%) that could play mind games on hpd’s and manipulate their souls, minds, hearts and spirits without anyone knowing I was doing it and get away with it I would do it! If I lived in this world I would set my sights on crushing and emotionally destroying at least one hpd."

Well its not hard to do after you know about them. Just find one and once she latches on to you just continually be a challenge and never give her the love she seeks and never let her cheating get to you at all and infact cheat on her and when she gets mad just act bored like you are going to dump her and this will anger her but make her want you even more. Then excite her so much with your games and plans you can't possibly make her any happier and then do what she does and suddenly leave her with no explanation given and ignore all her attempts to find out why and you've pretty much done what HPD's do to everyone else in their lives. Really though I myself see this as kind of pointless as I only hate those who have victimized me. For example if I was playing baseball and up to bat and the pitcher throws the ball and it goes the wrong way hits me and breaks my hand or whatever I'm not going to hate all the pitchers in the world am I? Hell no. Just the guy who threw the ball and only if I judge he was trying to break my hand. See what I'm getting at?

Still though I understand your anger and I have to say that I myself only respect the HPD's that are trying to get better or want to get better. The only ones in the world I have any bad feelings for are those who believe they have this disorder and are proud of it. If a person actually doesn't know they have HPD and doesn't realize they are hurting people then they have my sympathy and I hope someday they find out what they have and try to stop it. HPD really can go either way. A person can know something is wrong with them or be completely oblivious that anything is or know and be proud and the proud are the only ones who I have nothing but disgust for.

Fortunately I have yet to meet someone that was proud of their HPD.

"I can identify that the obvious basis of this desire to crush an hpd is anger brought forth by the manipulation I endured."

Well anger is good and natural. Let it come to you just try not to hurt anyone with it. Verbalize stuff talk to friends get it out you know. Therapists call this processing and its a very healthy thing. It helps your mind get around a mind bending experience and accept a new world view and one that was unfortunately forced upon all of us HPD victims.

"Therefore my final question is - I am wondering if the real root of the hpd’s need to hurt, manipulate and destroy others is a deep and unresolved anger towards the world and a feeling of isolation/separation and helplessness in a world that they believe and view to be so much more stronger than them?"

Al Bernstein author of Emotional Vampires said one thing HPD's will never admit is that they're angry. I don't really think its anger against the world so much as it is unresolved anger towards the way they were raised by mom and dad. It is my belief that the HPD's who were sexually abused or treated as sex objects by parents or grandparents or people in their early life become the worst type of HPD which is the disingenuous anti social type of HPD. These are the type that have victimized most all of the victim posters on this forum. Passive Aggressive Histrionics can make good loyal partners so long as you don't mind giving them plenty of attention and love. They only hurt their partners with passive aggressive tantrums and draining your energy. They don't lie as much, cheat or steal like their anti social HPD cousins.

Also I think if a person sees them seeming to put off their anger on the world or anything else it is just another distraction because maybe they know and maybe they don't that the root of their anger lies in their childhood upbringing.

"Are they so deeply hurt and wounded that they would strike out at the world with the two most powerful weapons known to mankind (sexuality) combined with helplessness (praying on the human ability to pity and want to take care of the helpless) in order to strike out and crush the world that they believed has hurt them so much – in the same way we are deeply hurt and wounded by the hpd’s treachery and would love to get even with them? Or is it simply that they get a thrill of hurting others or a combination of both?"

Its a combination of both. When you view your HPD as a wounded little girl and not really a grown woman despite her physical appearance of being such you realize her hurtful actions towards you were more akin to a child throwing a tantrum than any real calculated and cut throat plan to destroy you though yeah admittadly some of the worse ones do seem to get a thrill out of the devastation they cause but keep in mind they're not really laughing at you but daddy or mommy though they think its you that they laugh at.

Great post. I can't properly imagine this world. I'm not sure that it would still function (Socially). Too many things in the current socio-economic structure rely on human responsibility and repetition. That is, central jobs which people have to do regularly and reliably (in return for cash). I'm not sure that HPDs would be satisfied doing the 'little' jobs which count. Further, if they did, I doubt they would do them responsibly. Things like working in a power plant, police officers, local government, firefieghting, and farming. Anyway, it is an awesome thought experiment.

In case you didn't know from my other posts, I am HPD/NPD. That being said, I am the passsive aggressive variety of HPD, rather than the disingenuous. Also, Controller X was very correct in his observation that very few people are proud of their HPD, if at all aware. Personally, I see my HPD as a minor set back which must be dealt with discreetly and with as much haste as possible.

In terms of the source of my HPD tendancies, and the true sublime emotions attached to the realisation of it's tendancies, well that isn't an easy one. I believe that my HPD most probably developed from the perpetual arguement that was my childhood (with my step-mother). Otherwise it could have possibly had something to do with instability (I went to 10 different schools, 11 towns, 12 houses. My father is in the military). Maybe the death of my mother at age five was related, though I cannot see how beyond a casual indirect link. However it was not like I was abused (other than by my stepmother). In fact I was the golden child of nearly every school I went to, and certainly all of my extended family.

I am afraid I simply cannot accurately say what emotion I truly feel beneath the incomprehensible glee I recieve upon destroying an 'underling'. I think anger is a good guess, because that is usually what I am feeling up to the point. Anger at some percieved insult to some percieved injury. Though I cannot say I would expect my far more common attention-seeking tendancies to anger, maybe insecurity (but the NPD in me says no), or possibly arrogance. Not sure...

I agree with digital in that this is a very interesting post.

For the record, I am also an HPD/NPD, but I am more the ingenuous anti-social type.

I think KontrollerX was right in saying that, "To realize you were disposed of like a piece of garbage simply for loving someone who seemed to want your love and come closer to you by getting it is unbelievable. It stretches the very fabric of our minds to think someone could treat us this way but it is part of the HPD disorder. Conqueor and move on. "

The HPD will treat you like you are their whole world (and you just might be until they have 'conquered' you) The HPD feels love (not a normal person's love; like an obsessive need) and anger at being weak to the one they love at the same time. The HPD doesn't want to be weak to you (NPD? must be on top? idk), so they try to gain the upper hand with conquering, and most often they do since disingenuous ppl have an advantage over the good-willed in THIS world (annoying truth)

They want to be loved, but also feel no obligation to that person to love in return.

Personally I can say that I have gotten a sick thrill out of being able to conquer every interest I have came in contact with; but at the same time i might still feel empty when i am done relishing in it. Like I don't know myself if I even have a self & that normal ppl have some kind of natural happiness (not from doing evil things) that I cannot obtain.

HPD to me, seems just like...a person who is growing up, but at the same time keeps 'going through the motions' that were done to them in childhood. They keep looking for a different answer to the same question, for example "you are loved." But what the HPD does not realize is that they will destroy this answer once they get it. Instead of being vulnerable and needing love (which is what is deep down that they supress and ignore), they have chosen to become the figure in THEIR life that did not love them back.

I hope you get some insight from that. They want to become to the world what someone SO important was to them...so the world will love them and they will feel important and not a child. Unfortunately this person did not show the HPD love, even though the HPD will never stop loving them...the HPD wants to be like this figure so other ppl will love them...thus Histrionic Personality Disorder.

I hope that was not too confusing and these are just my experiences of course, I cannot speak for all HPDs.