Got my work cut out for me

Hi,

I'm 35 and I just realized a few days ago that it's likely that I have HPD. It came after a difficult break-up, the difficulty in part due to that he was amazing and that he saw right through me and called me out even when I couldn't be honest with myself about who I was/am.
(I've just started therapy. Therapist doesn't like to label with PD's, so I will probably not be clinically diagnosed.)

I exhibit the following characteristics as such:

Exhibitionist behavior-- shameless
Constant seeking of reassurance or approval-- in an insidious way
Excessive sensitivity to criticism or disapproval-- It seems I'll do/say anything to get someone to think well of me, and can't handle it when they don't
Pride of own personality and unwillingness to change, viewing any change as a threat--subconsciously
Inappropriately seductive appearance or behavior of a sexual nature-- lots of sex appeal, but not in how I dress
A need to be the center of attention-- of SOMEONE'S attention
Low tolerance for frustration or delayed gratification-- constantly living in the moment
Tendency to believe that relationships are more intimate than they actually are-- not so, I don't give myself enough credit for someone wanting to be close to me
Blaming personal failures or disappointments on others-- I have a very hard time accepting accountability
Being easily influenced by others, especially those who treat them approvingly-- What are my opinions and values anyway? I'm really not sure

Additionally, I've never been faithful to anyone I've been romantically involved with. I was married for 10 years and then ended up in an emotional affair.
Since divorce, I've seen multiple men at the same time (I did notify all of them that I wasn't interested in anything serious) and then I met this last guy and he was too great to let go... Screwed that up too.

I think that I could handle these issues if I had consistent integrity and respect for these men. But would I exhibit as many HPD characteristics if I had these qualities?

I'm so afraid that I'm going to put someone else and myself through heartache again...

I need help.

Hello ITG and welcome to the HPD forforum
Just wanted to say I applaud your efforts in therapy. Your therapist sounds wise. I would speculate that the hazards for a possible HPD person not completing therapy include
(1) becoming bored or afraid, what with the implications of responsibility,
(2) mistaking therapy for flattering positive attention, and becoming too seductive with the therapist,
(3) having an ideal model to aspire to that is too ideal and too hard on yourself. In other words a fantasy, and if you are the slightest bit perfectionist or obsessive you will drain your energy trying to be someone you are not. So, instead
(a) try to get interested in your therapy; think about what the benefits to you will be,
(b) keep your other relationships going and do a reasonable amt of flirting and attention getting there, outside the shrink's office.
(c) consider what your current true assets are...everyone has good points. Keep those going as a source on energy and don't completely overthrow yourself chasing an ideal "anti-you."

Anyhow that's my speculation...maybe Masque or some of the other ladies who have lived both in the disordered and recovered world have some better recomendations.
So stick with it and continue to share it with us here
Best, orion

Hi, and a very warm welcome to the forum.

It's good that you're seeking therapy, and whether or not you actually have HPD, it certainly seems as if you've come to the conclusion that something is amiss in your life. You seem to have some self awareness, and this is half the battle in moving forward towards positive change.

Together with your therapist you can explore any unresolved issues in your past that have caused your current ways of thinking, reacting, feeling and behaving. Usually, when a person behaves in any kind of maladaptive and unhealthy way, they've learnt to do so as a coping mechanism. Once you have got to the core of the reasons why you think and feel the way you do, you can then discover healthier ways of acting, which should become more and more automatic and more integrated into your personality.

Sometimes therapy can be painful as old wounds are opened, and past issues confronted, but the therapist will take you at a pace you're comfortable with.

This link to a previous thread I made may help. Can you identify here with any of the ways in which your traits or symptoms are manifested?
histrionic-personality/topic92768.html

It sounds as if you're willing to work upon yourself. There IS a way forward. Yes, the past has shaped you and you have no control over the past. What you DO have control over is the way you allow the past to affect you. I saw a doctor today for a physical complaint, and her words resonated with me. She was talking in terms of my physical health, but it occurred to me that they could just as easily be applied to my emotional health. She said "What you do today in terms of self care will provide you with the building blocks for good health in the future" Hun, you may not have control over your past, but you DO have control over the present, and what you do in the present can pave the way for a positive and healthy future. Consider your therapy to be a means to an end, and a way of investing in yourself, enabling you to find a sense of healing for the future.

itsthatgirl wrote:Inappropriately seductive appearance or behavior of a sexual nature-- lots of sex appeal, but not in how I dress
A need to be the center of attention-- of SOMEONE'S attention

It raises the question of disorders coming out in ways that aren't stereotypically apparent.

Side note to that comment: though the way I see things I don't really think in disorder labels, tend to see things in the context of issues and what's really going on not DSM criteria. Certain persons seem to have the need for labels. I guess sometimes a question for them to ask themselves is why. Where I respond is most about what is said where, not about the name of the category, though people tend to say certain things in certain places.

I was particularly afraid of HPD - having HPD would have been my worst nightmare even though there are plenty of people I don't have anything against who have it.

(in my case the label tied in with particular kinds of helplessness that were forced on me, particularly fear of having been forced into stereotypical femininity and that it was something I was helpless to avoid or change because that was actually what I was - however irrational those thoughts might have been in a normal context, it was a fear of something.)

Its important to understand what drives the need for getting the label right or getting validation from others recognising that label.

DSM criteria and labels get a bad wrap when people who are significantly and genuinely different are stereotyped. But that still doesn't invalidate that certain individuals - perhaps even a majority of the original case descriptions - in some significant way, or in a majority of ways, confirm the DSM criteria and labels (and the deeper tradition of research behind them)...which is all based on naturally re-occurring patterns in human behavior (that is, unless DSM criteria and labels, and DSM itself, doesn't describe reality at all).

Thought it interesting that out of 10 criteria at one point a piece, the OP scored herself as 8.5 - which is statistically significant.

Funny, too...the other day I was asking another Mod: "If HPD's status is uncertain due to DSM V, wonder why all these different people from the U.S. (as well all over the world) keep coming here?

Katana said

...though people tend to say certain things in certain places...Its important to understand what drives the need for getting the label right or getting validation from others recognising that label.

But maybe it's not always that, instead just something really natural, honest and simple, going on in someone's most private thoughts, like

"Hey, this condition (and whatever healthy solution there might be to it) reminds me of me!"

I think the desire to honestly learn about one's self is probably a pretty reliable and widespread adaptive instinct; if so hopefully the attraction to this place implies something real is felt and being sought, beyond even just confirming the condition itself.

I don't want to derail the thread too much, but I'd like to add to what Orion said.

Yes, labels can be limiting and defining, and there is a danger that people who have a low sense of identity anyway can latch onto the label, using it as a definition for themselves. However, labels can also provide a useful foundation from which to gain a greater understanding of a person with a disorder. Whilst we are all unique as human beings, our bodies and brains are all structurally very similar, and it therefore follows that as humans we mayl have tendencies to react to childhood events and trauma in certain patterns as they impact upon our developing personalities. There may possibly also be genetic predispositions to developing personality disorders, given certain environmental factors.

Therapists do take into account people's uniqueness, even within the context of a disorder, and every counselling session will be shaped according to the unique needs of each person. Some may not be too concerned with labels, but that doesn't mean that the therapy will be ineffective. If the environmental factors that cause a PD are taken into account and worked upon, the patient can begin to make effective changes, understand themselves, gain greater insight and begin to look within for validation and a sense of self worth. From that perspective, the label isn't the prime focus, but a label can be a useful aid from which to work from.

For a long time I knew I was different, that something was amiss, but I couldn't pinpoint it. Learning about HPD helped me because I knew then that I had a NAME for my symptoms, and it made me feel less isolated, less "abnormal" and less to blame. In some ways it was a relief. I then went through a stage of latching onto the name because it gave me a sense of identity as I lacked a true sense of who I was. I even felt a strange sense of pride in the label, and also a sense of justification. Those who have been on the forum for some time such as Orion and Xdude may remember how defensive I was about my disorder, and how I used to justify my symptoms because I had a bad upbringing. I then learned to take some responsibility for myself. Yes, I did have a traumatic past, but only I could be responsible for my reactions to it and I had to face up to some very harsh truths about myself. This was painful and liberating at the same time. As I recovered I then went through a sense of denial. I hated the label. I began to identify myself as a non, and this too was unhealthy. None of us are truly "non" if that makes any sense. Eventually, through introspection and taking on board what I'd learnt about myself through therap,y I came to a sense of acceptance and began to develop true self esteem, knowing that I wasn't perfect, that I had good days and bad days and that it was okay to be simply okay. HPD involves an escape from reality and in my HPD way of thinking I believed that recovery meant that my life would be perfect, that I would always be happy, that I would never have negative feelings. I strove towards this, and I think my breakthrough in healing came when I realized that I was an imperfect person living in an imperfect and sometimes unjust world, but I could love and accept myself nevertheless. I found a sense of realism.

I'm sorry if I've derailed the thread, but I thought it might be helpful to you if you could see how it was for me. Yes, HPD is a label, but it can teach us a lot about ourselves and what it is about ourselves that we need to work on. Whether we continue to live within that label is up to ourselves. We can, through therapy and introspection, move beyond that label and discover who we really are.

orion8591 wrote:But maybe it's not always that, instead just something really natural, honest and simple, going on in someone's most private thoughts, like

"Hey, this condition (and whatever healthy solution there might be to it) reminds me of me!"

I think the desire to honestly learn about one's self is probably a pretty reliable and widespread adaptive instinct; if so hopefully the attraction to this place implies something real is felt and being sought, beyond even just confirming the condition itself.

As long as its this kind of thing going on I agree labels aren't necessarily a bad thing.

masquerade wrote:Yes, labels can be limiting and defining, and there is a danger that people who have a low sense of identity anyway can latch onto the label, using it as a definition for themselves. However, labels can also provide a useful foundation from which to gain a greater understanding of a person with a disorder. Whilst we are all unique as human beings, our bodies and brains are all structurally very similar, and it therefore follows that as humans we mayl have tendencies to react to childhood events and trauma in certain patterns as they impact upon our developing personalities. There may possibly also be genetic predispositions to developing personality disorders, given certain environmental factors.

Noted what people say about latching onto labels. It can be about latching on to answers or things which convey a certain message just as much as about identity. I understand what you mean about sense of pride in relation to PD, as odd as it is in some contexts.

Agree about different predisposition and people being physically similar with tendencies to reactions.

Thank you all for your replies and commendations on my therapy.
I'm sorry I disappeared. I must admit that I was intimidated by the philosophical conversation about labels. I appreciate the input however and may find it useful in the future after I'm out of this cesspool of sh!t that I've created in my life.
My life is in shambles. I've made so many bad decisions and hurt those I care about the most (including my darling children) and I really have no clue about how to fix it.
Does this forum offer practical advice on situations? I need definite guidance. My therapist is not really providing that. She is focused on acceptance, which doesn't ring true when I present to her evidence of behavior that even I deem unacceptable but wasn't strong enough in the moment to choose a healthier option.
I want to spill my guts about the poor decisions that have led me here for analysis and guidance. I do realize that in doing that I would also be asking for acceptance and understanding, which may or may not be deserved. And I don't want to take the time if that's not how things work around here.
What I will say right now is that I seem to engage in self-sabatoging behavior at critical times in my life. Someone has pointed out that I don't love myself and that my only real validation in life is sex. This in part has led to a massively bad choice on my part that destroyed any chance at reconciliation with my exH. We're both devastated.
Help?

itsthatgirl wrote:Thank you all for your replies and commendations on my therapy.
I'm sorry I disappeared. I must admit that I was intimidated by the philosophical conversation about labels. I appreciate the input however and may find it useful in the future after I'm out of this cesspool of sh!t that I've created in my life.
My life is in shambles. I've made so many bad decisions and hurt those I care about the most (including my darling children) and I really have no clue about how to fix it.
Does this forum offer practical advice on situations? I need definite guidance. My therapist is not really providing that. She is focused on acceptance, which doesn't ring true when I present to her evidence of behavior that even I deem unacceptable but wasn't strong enough in the moment to choose a healthier option.
I want to spill my guts about the poor decisions that have led me here for analysis and guidance. I do realize that in doing that I would also be asking for acceptance and understanding, which may or may not be deserved. And I don't want to take the time if that's not how things work around here.
What I will say right now is that I seem to engage in self-sabatoging behavior at critical times in my life. Someone has pointed out that I don't love myself and that my only real validation in life is sex. This in part has led to a massively bad choice on my part that destroyed any chance at reconciliation with my exH. We're both devastated.
Help?

Hi ITG and welcome back
Sorry for the diverting label discussion.

We normally don't do therapy online, cause most of us haven't been trained, plus therapy should be a 3D one on one affair. But common sense recommendations are ok I think: IMO I would stick with the therapy now. If you don't like your current T nothing wrong with finding another. But it's always best to set some goals and finish them whenever possible. Does your therapist know Cognitive Behavioral Therapy?

Feel free to relate anything here that you feel comfortable with, regarding therapy or your other experiences.

orion8591 wrote:
We normally don't do therapy online, cause most of us haven't been trained, plus therapy should be a 3D one on one affair. But common sense recommendations are ok I think: IMO I would stick with the therapy now.

Yes, I would like some common sense advice on life. And frankly, I want to hear others' perspectives and opinions on my choices and suggestions on modification. That doesn't mean I'm going to follow everyone's advice, but I think that some wake up calls can be made by objective "listeners". Is that not what you do here? If not, please explain what it is you do.

If you don't like your current T nothing wrong with finding another. But it's always best to set some goals and finish them whenever possible. Does your therapist know Cognitive Behavioral Therapy?

I don't know if she knows CBT. I'll see her later today and ask her. I'm guessing you think I would benefit from it? How would it help someone like me, a liar and a cheater who ruins her own life and victimizes loved one?