Relationship troubles... what to do about this?

Hello, everyone. I suppose a short and to-the-point introduction would serve well here, seeing as I just joined this community primarily because I am having a lot of trouble with a situation in the system I'm part of.

So, uh... first off, please don't take offense to our user name, it literally came about because none of us could agree on a single name until one of us suggested "Unanimous," and it kind of reverberated as suitable and everyone agreed on it (self-referential win, there). Currently, I'm fronting, as I do a majority of the time... I'd say my name, but eh... I would prefer not to. You can all call me Liverbones, though.

In any case, I'm part of a system that currently has twelve other members: Rachel, Jake, Marcus (who also goes by Marc or Aaqil), Matty (or Matthew), Heather, Eli, Blair, Ben, Bat, two self-proclaimed "angels" (who shall remain nameless to avoid any triggers for anyone else), and one other that has remained rather... fuzzy, but certainly distinct, and definitely there.

By the way, apologies in advance for the TL;DR post. Sorry!

The problem is... kinda multi-faceted, but revolves around one of us: Rachel. She's the oldest of the others in the system -- she's been around for about thirteen years -- and she's a pretty constant cause of... I don't know, chaos, I guess. That's not what she means to be (I think), but it's what she is. Some time ago now (in 2009, I think?) she had an existential crisis which actually led to our diagnosis. She conspired with someone else (who's now a friend of the whole system) to get away from my family (including, at the time, my wife and daughter) in order to become female. When she was recovered from Pittsburgh (we live in North Carolina, by the way), everyone was just... shell-shocked by how different I appeared to be. We all found out soon afterwards that we were dissociative, entered therapy, and were officially diagnosed.

Since that time, though, Rachel continues to try to show that she is not me and that she wants to be her own person. I don't have a problem with that -- none of us have a problem with any of the others wanting to express themselves -- the problem is how she does it.

In short, she... fell in love with someone (who shall remain nameless). She was in a long-distance relationship with them for... a long time, I'm not even sure exactly how long. He was aware of the DID diagnosis, knew she wasn't technically (in the biological sense of the word) female, and knew that her body was married to someone else. All of that makes it kind of... appalling that he decided to proceed with the relationship anyway, but eh... it's not really my place to judge him, even if I want to at times.

So anyway, my wife discovered the relationship that Rachel was having and brought it to my attention, and to the attention of everyone else in the system. Honestly, we all knew that she was talking to this person, and that he made her happy, but I don't think any of us knew the full extent of it. When we found out that she had been essentially hiding this relationship from everyone, we didn't have much of a choice but to... end it. It really seemed like a serious threat, especially considering that Rachel had previously tried to cut all ties with the rest of us in the system and go her own way in Pittsburgh -- and I think we were all scared that she might try to do it again.

So yeah, we cut everything off and they said their good-byes. Apparently, Rachel and this guy saw each other as "soul mates," and it was... very painful for us to have to end things like that. Later, we found out that she had once again gone behind our backs and actually got back in touch with him and kept talking to him. Once the rest of us found out about that, we went on high-alert and immediately shot down everything. After that, Rachel more or less disappeared for months.

But now, months after we had to end everything between them, Rachel attempted to contact him yet again, but this time he told her that he could not talk to her anymore... that it was just too painful for him to lose her, then have her, then lose her again. I don't blame him. That would be absolutely torturous, going through a relationship with someone only to realize that it's entirely impossible for them to actually be together.

Since he said that he can no longer talk to her, though, Rachel has been... extremely sad. I mean, she's always been sad, but this is just... wow. She's been catatonic, she's been thinking of hurting herself (and she really would have if we didn't keep stopping her), she's even thought about removing herself from the system entirely, and this is just... way too much.

We just don't need this kind of drama. I'm happily married, Marcus is happily married, Jake is in a committed relationship with our wife, we have two children, I mean... I feel for Rachel, I really do, but... God, enough is enough. We have enough anarchy running around us without this. And I know that she's watching me type all of this, and that's really just... hurting me.

I don't want to bad-mouth her. I love her, she's like a sister to me, she's always been there when I needed someone, but she's just... she's betrayed everyone to such an extent that it's getting harder and harder to know what to do about her. And I guess that we could all really use some help and advice here, if anyone here has experienced something like this.

And seriously, I apologize for the huge post, but if you read this whole thing, thank you. We're in your debt if you have any kind of advice.

I'm sorry that Rachel has had to learn the hard way that being part if a multi system comes with impossible restrictions.

I think it's positive that she was reading what you have written. Perhaps ask her directly what her thoughts are. You are your best asset. You can help yourselves out of this depression and dark place. If you allow her to grieve and mourn I guess. Wishing you the best.

Welcome also to the forums! And unanimous doesn't seem offensive to me at all!

B

Relationships are not black and white, all or nothing. Rachel still has a relationship with this man, it's just a distant and unhappy one at this point in time. Is it really necessary for them to go no contact? There are other alternatives. I recall a while back on this DID forum there was a woman married to one alter and another alter in the system had a live-in girlfriend in the same house. Such a solution might not work for you but I mention it is an example of what is possible. Nevermind societal norms. What do all the people involved really need and want?

Rachel is heterosexual? How does she feel about your wife, and vice versa? Does Rachel have any intimate male friends locally? What kinds of relationship for her would be acceptable to the rest of you?

So, apologies again, because long post is looooooong!

Anyway, down the rabbit hole....

bourbon wrote:I'm sorry that Rachel has had to learn the hard way that being part if a multi system comes with impossible restrictions.

To me, that's kind of... part of the problem. She's not really learning that there are restrictions as much as she is trying to defy them and... I don't know, prove that she has every right to living that we all do. I mean, I know that she has every right to it, but unfortunately, the life that we collectively lead doesn't mesh with what she wants, and it's kind of like throwing gasoline on a fire to tell her "I'm sorry, really, but you just can't do that."

bourbon wrote:You can help yourselves out of this depression and dark place. If you allow her to grieve and mourn I guess.

And I want to let her do that, honestly -- I mean, to be perfectly truthful, I'm one of her only advocates right now. The others with us are... less sympathetic, I guess, it's like... "you turned your back on all of us, so enjoy being alone." I can't do that, because she was always there when I needed her, even when she was the one enduring most of what we went through. I feel like I'm indebted to her for that, and I feel like I understand why she is the way that she is. I guess that's why I want to help her so much right now, but I'm also having to walk a thin line, and it's getting... just... tiring.

bourbon wrote:Wishing you the best.

Thank you, truly. From all (well, most) of us.

bourbon wrote:Welcome also to the forums! And unanimous doesn't seem offensive to me at all!

Well, good, I was hoping it wouldn't be, but I didn't want the name to come across as arrogant or anything, like... "what I say is true, it is Unanimous!"

Una+ wrote:Relationships are not black and white, all or nothing. Rachel still has a relationship with this man, it's just a distant and unhappy one at this point in time. Is it really necessary for them to go no contact? There are other alternatives.

Well, she doesn't have a relationship with him anymore, really, and I feel... guilty for that. I'm not the only one that stopped her from talking to him by any means, but I was involved in the decision.

To put it briefly, Rachel contacted him recently to find out if he even wanted to talk to her, and he basically told her that he couldn't be in contact with her anymore because it was too painful for him. I think that's also part of what's kind of... tearing her up, y'know, the fact that not talking to her has hurt him so badly.

Una+ wrote:What do all the people involved really need and want?

I honestly don't know. I think that Rachel needs time to grieve and work through this, and the rest of us with her need to be patient and supportive as much as possible right now. Her sadness kind of drags us all down.

As for what my wife needs or wants, I'll... have to discuss that with her, and I think that the person Rachel was having a relationship with honestly needs to not talk to her anymore for the sake of his own mental health. I don't blame him for that.

Una+ wrote:Rachel is heterosexual? How does she feel about your wife, and vice versa? Does Rachel have any intimate male friends locally? What kinds of relationship for her would be acceptable to the rest of you?

Honestly, Rachel has no friends at all locally. The few that she did have before have moved away from the area or otherwise lost contact with her. I've been urging her to try to get in touch with people who can help her through this, and I know she's gotten in touch with at least one person, so... at least that's better than nothing.

And Rachel is bisexual, but definitely more inclined towards male partners -- of course, I say that like she's had many, but she really hasn't. Regarding my wife, there is... a lot of drama between the two of them. My wife has a hard time being empathetic towards Rachel (due to the number of times Rachel has hurt her), and Rachel has had problems with my wife ever since she married us. To Rachel, marriage was never a consideration, and she just... really hates that part of our life, and I guess she acts out that hatred against our wife.

I really couldn't say what kind of relationship would be acceptable to all of us. I mean, the biggest problem that I, personally, have had with Rachel is that she keeps enormous secrets from almost everybody. She's like a puzzle box that taunts you to open it when there isn't even a key that fits, and she has discussed these secrets with people I barely know (such as the man she was involved with, whom I only talked to a handful of times) -- I mean, I recently found out that this guy she was with actually knows more about the abuse that happened to me than I do.

So really, I guess that I don't mind whatever relationship Rachel is in as long as she stops hiding everything. Just, you know, let us know what's going on, don't be so secretive, and just... let us in a little bit. Trying to hide everything just hurts everyone involved, including Rachel, and it just doesn't help anything. But I also know that my wife would disagree with her having almost any kind of romantic relationship and inherently distrusts Rachel, so we're collectively having to think about what kind of effect any decision will have on her as well.

It's a tough spot for us for sure.

And thank you both for the replies, they really mean a lot to us.

I have an odd thought about this. It's coming from me though so it is bound be a weird thought. Please bare with me.

Rachel isn't "hooking up" with random men. She made a connection with someone far away from her and developed a relationship with him. Their relationship wasn't physical. It was emotional. She told him things that you don't even know.

Maybe what Rachel really wants and needs is a stable relationship with a man she can trust. That's probably something she never had in all of her life. Someone she can tell her secrets to. Someone to hold her when she cries. She needs someone to listen to her, support her, love her, and just be her friend.

Why can't that strong, stable man that is a great friend and loves her be you?

Unanimous wrote:I recently found out that this guy she was with actually knows more about the abuse that happened to me than I do.

Did it happen to you or did it happen to Rachel? Whose story is this to share with an empathetic, caring person?

How much say does your wife get here, compared to Rachel? Speaking for the other members of my system, I would say Rachel's needs should come before your wife's needs.

Well, in response to this last post, I first want to point out that the wife has a connection with more than one person in the system, and putting Rachael before the wife could badly affect the others in the system, so I wouldn't say her needs are more important. But I also wouldn't say that they aren't important. All things are important to consider.

Jen (my alter) is also very secretive. I know how that can be. And while I think it would be best if she opened up to at least one person in tbe system, I'm not sure she'd want to do so.

As for my advice, I can't say I really know. I mean, I kinda have a girlfriend, and Jen is constantly trying to get us apart, and I can't say how I'd respond if she fell for someone. And I know I couldn't stand to share my SO with her, I tend to be a bit of a jealous person. So I have problems of my own in this area and no real solutions. But out of what's been mentioned here, I think that you sound like you care about her a lot and you want to keep the entire system working peacefully WITH her. So if she does just need a companion,I agree that becoming that companion would bevery good for everyone. However, if she islooking for a relationship, that's something that will have to be discussed with your wife. Try to explain it from Rachael's perspective for her. Not Rachael's words,since they don't get along, buttry to help everyone see what she lacks and why she needs this guy (which might require you to figure it out from her first). Also, try to talk toRachael about the secrets. Figure out why she feels the need to hide from the rest of the system and try to find an alternative with her. Show her the benefits of not hiding.

Also, I love the username. ^^ I wish the best of luck to all of you. If you need, I think there is a way to send messages here,since I'm told that Idon't have any. Lol. Feel free to message me if you want to talk. That offer is open to Rachael too, of course. ^^

(Also I'd like to apologize for the (probably abundant) typing errors. My computer currently does not work and the keyboard I'm using is extremely difficult to function. So please forgive me and I hope I'm at least coherant. ^^u)

I brought up your situation to a good friend of mine; she helps me work out my problems with Jen and I thought she might have some advice worth hearing.

She said, "Respect isneeded. It's good to have friends on the outside and also to have somewhat of a private life. But she needs support from the inside too. They need to have respect foreach other. Good for him for being there for her. She's hurting. She lost a best friend. It's hard to find someone like that, someone who will like a girl in a boy's body. And she's stuck in a boy's body. Try to feel pretty then. She might just want to shut down for a while. But whatever she wants to accomplish, she's going to need the help of the system to some degree. As for him, he needs to understand that shemight not be ready to talk yet, but still let her know he's there for her. Ask her what she wants to accomplish in life and the rest of the system will do their best to help or find another solution. She needs to earn their respect though. Saying sorry for going behind their backs is a good first step."

When I told her I was going to type the advice for her, she added, "Well, therapists seem like a popular solve all to problems, too, I've noticed. Do you have a therapist? They can be helpful sometimes for solving conflicts in the system."

So I hope some of that will help you. ^^ Good luck.

Una+ wrote:Did it happen to you or did it happen to Rachel? Whose story is this to share with an empathetic, caring person?

That's a fair point.

I often make the mistake of treating DID like it's happening to me, when I know that technically, it's happening to all of us. Just the fact that I carry the name we were given at birth doesn't mean that everything is mine. That's been a relatively recent revelation for me, so I'm still getting used to it in some ways. But yeah, it definitely happened to Rachel for the most part. I mean, most of what I can actually remember is pieces of conversations with people and such.

Tunes14 wrote:Well, in response to this last post, I first want to point out that the wife has a connection with more than one person in the system, and putting Rachael before the wife could badly affect the others in the system, so I wouldn't say her needs are more important. But I also wouldn't say that they aren't important. All things are important to consider.

I... just wanted to say that this is more or less what I was going to say. I mean, just with the balance of how things are with us in general, obviously, and... I really wouldn't want to do something that my wife finds disagreeable because I feel like her opinions matter just as much as anyone else involved.

That doesn't mean that we're ignoring Rachel's needs; what I'm trying my hardest to do is find a median point where everyone can at least... not hate whatever happens. Which brings us to the next point....

Tunes14 wrote:So if she does just need a companion,I agree that becoming that companion would bevery good for everyone.

I would definitely have to try to figure out from Rachel exactly what she needs, but right now, I can tell that Rachel doesn't want a romantic relationship (at least for now) at all (since she hates being so vulnerable now that he's gone)... at the same time, I can guess as to why my companionship just... isn't quite enough.

So personally, it seems to me that what Rachel could really use is a good friend that she can trust with things who isn't in support of her defiance of the rest of us. I mean, she really needs someone to talk to, badly, but what none of us need is someone who will also support Rachel fighting against us.

Tunes14 wrote:Show her the benefits of not hiding.

That's what I want so bad -- I mean, for her to see the benefits of it and be able to experience them. Both my wife and I have talked about this with Rachel before, and I'm just... really hoping that it sinks in, especially after all of this.

Tunes14 wrote:Also, I love the username. ^^ I wish the best of luck to all of you. If you need, I think there is a way to send messages here,since I'm told that Idon't have any. Lol. Feel free to message me if you want to talk. That offer is open to Rachael too, of course. ^^

Thanks!

And we might take you up on that offer at some point. As it is, I think I'm going to sit down with my wife for a while and (hopefully) some of the others and talk about everything that's been discussed here.

Tunes14 wrote:(Also I'd like to apologize for the (probably abundant) typing errors. My computer currently does not work and the keyboard I'm using is extremely difficult to function. So please forgive me and I hope I'm at least coherant. ^^u)

Pffffft, you're perfectly understandable. Don't worry about it.

And thank you guys for all of the help and advice, it's really appreciated.

Glad to help in any way I can. I look forward to any messages. Good luck talking with your wife and with Rachael. ^^