Complex DID different to polyfragmentation?

bourbon wrote:

Onlyme wrote:I can ask my GF's therapist for a complete list of the symptoms when I see her again. I do know that my GF has complex DID and she only has 4 alters.

I would be very interested to hear what your GF's therapist thinks on this topic!

Bourbon

Us too.

Polyfragmentation refers to more than 100 parts or personalities. Some may be full personalities, others may just be memory fragments.

I couldn't find any sources on the internet that referred to specifically to "complex DID", only sources that referred to complex dissociative disorders. So I'm thinking that perhaps the "complex" part of complex DID is more of a descriptive term rather than a technical diagnostic definition. It seems to imply polyfragmentation or perhaps a certain set of symptoms to me. I will be interested to hear what that therapist says also...

Was there a particular reason why you have felt curious about this?

I have found some references to "complex DID". The term is used by some authors to mean DID plus a personality disorder and/or ongoing enmeshment in abusive relationship(s). Here is an example:

PDF: van der Hart and Boon, Treatment strategies for complex dissociative disorders: Two Dutch case examples. DISSOCIATION, Vol. X, No. 3, September 1997

In that article "complex" is used in several contexts, not always with exactly the same meaning. The article has the flavor of a translation from another language (Dutch) into English and I feel that the phrase "complex DID" may be less an informal diagnostic category than an artifact of the translation.

My daughter did a thesis on DID so she has most of my books, but when I get them back I will post references. There is not much at all online about polyfragmentation or complex DID, but it is in the newer DID books that I have purchased that my daughter has away at school right now.

I know in my case it was not meant to mean an additional personality disorder - not that I don't have them, but they have never been discussed or identified. I have DID, severe time loss, and 266 parts including 18 that have been the host. In the past most believed it was from cult abuse, but now we (those that study it) feel it is usually from family abuse that is so severe it seems like it was cult abuse, but it is not.

Here is what I see on the net but there is little out there on those with polyfragmentation on the net, my books do have some, but again not a whole lot.

Net:

Incest-related syndromes of adult psychopathology - Google Books Result
books.google.com/books?isbn=0880481609...Richard P. Kluft, American Psychiatric Association.
"The more severe and prolonged the trauma, the more severe the fragmentation."
Richard Kluft

----------------------------------------------------------------


The dissociative spectrum (Braun, 1988) extends from normal dissociation to poly-fragmented DID.
http://www.fortea.us/english/psiquiatria/spectrum.htm

----------------------------------------------
Poly-fragmented DID is an extreme form of DID and involves over 100 personality states. This is often the consequence of sadistic and brutal abuse ... over a long time interval.
http://www.urgenttermpapers.com/dissociative.html

-----------------------------------------

What is polyfragmentation? The term comes from the root poly, meaning many, and fragments. In complex polyfragmenatation, the survivor will have not only alter systems, but hundreds or even thousands of fragments, isolated parts of their mind created to do a job, and do it well and unthinkingly. Often the job is one that would be abhorrent to the main personality or presenting system. The further away from core beliefs, the greater usually the dissociation and fragmentation that must occur. In other words, a LOT of trauma has to happen to make a person do something that they really don't want to do. And the person has to feel very far away from themselves as well when doing it.
http://www.didcoping.com/h70-dissociati ... tion-svali

----------------------------------------
Poly-fragmented Multiplicity
By Sara Lambert

The number now required to be considered "extra" in the multiple stakes is 100-plus, and it is known by the more clinical term "poly-fragmented".
http://fromtheinsideout.tripod.com/arti ... ag-mpd.htm

---------------------------------------------
The Osiris complex: case studies in multiple personality disorder - Google Books Result
books.google.com/books?isbn=0802073581...Colin A. Ross, Colin Ross - 1994 - Psychology - 296 pages
Polyfragmented... is the fragmentation of the psyche into dissociated personality states that mistakenly believe themselves to be separate people. ...
http://books.google.com/books

------------------------------------------------

Rebuilding Shattered Lives: Treating Complex PTSD and Dissociative ... - Google Books Result
books.google.com/books?isbn=0470768746...James A. Chu - 2011 - Family & Relationships - 366 pages

"Extreme versions of DID occasionally develop in response to particularly horrific ongoing trauma with polyfragmentation encompassing dozens to hundreds of personality states. In general, the complexity of dissociative symptoms appears to be consistent with the severity of early tramatization."

I am reading The Haunted Self by Van der Hart, Nijenhuis and Steele right now. I will report what they have to say on this as I get farther into the book. This is the BEST book by far that I have read on DID and I have read a lot of them!

*****Trigger Warning*****

I'm sorry I didn't reply sooner. We are in the middle of a crisis as the Core attempted to SU on the second day of Christmas after she had a flashback that revealed a memory from one of her alters that was new to her. The system is now in crisis and I'm working over time with the T to calm them all down again. As soon as things settle down I will ask the T for that list of symptoms. Things have been very hectic with us over the last 2 months which is why I haven't been posting as often as I would like either. I simply don't have the mental/emotional capacity to really focus on what I'm writing. Just know that I haven't forgotten and I will get back to you all as soon as I can.

Onlyme, it's ok, no hurry to reply. I'm sorry to hear that that happened. I hope that she feels better and more stable soon.

Thanks Salted. The system has pretty much broken down as a result but fortunately their T is working very hard with them to get them back on track. I've been having some more time to myself as a result because the T said it's important I get rest too. So I've been able to spend some more time doing things I want to do and catching up on some topics here and there. It's certainly not how I'd imagined this year to start off but there's only one way that is left and that is up!

I think it's good that you've got some time are rest to look after yourself also. That is important.

I'm glad to hear their T is working hard to get them back on track.

Perhaps you can start a thread here to let others here know about the situation so you can get some support of your own also?

sev0n wrote:My daughter did a thesis on DID so she has most of my books, but when I get them back I will post references. There is not much at all online about polyfragmentation or complex DID, but it is in the newer DID books that I have purchased that my daughter has away at school right now.

I know in my case it was not meant to mean an additional personality disorder - not that I don't have them, but they have never been discussed or identified. I have DID, severe time loss, and 266 parts including 18 that have been the host. In the past most believed it was from cult abuse, but now we (those that study it) feel it is usually from family abuse that is so severe it seems like it was cult abuse, but it is not.

Here is what I see on the net but there is little out there on those with polyfragmentation on the net, my books do have some, but again not a whole lot.

Net:

Incest-related syndromes of adult psychopathology - Google Books Result
books.google.com/books?isbn=0880481609...Richard P. Kluft, American Psychiatric Association.
"The more severe and prolonged the trauma, the more severe the fragmentation."
Richard Kluft

----------------------------------------------------------------


The dissociative spectrum (Braun, 1988) extends from normal dissociation to poly-fragmented DID.
http://www.fortea.us/english/psiquiatria/spectrum.htm

----------------------------------------------
Poly-fragmented DID is an extreme form of DID and involves over 100 personality states. This is often the consequence of sadistic and brutal abuse ... over a long time interval.
http://www.urgenttermpapers.com/dissociative.html

-----------------------------------------

What is polyfragmentation? The term comes from the root poly, meaning many, and fragments. In complex polyfragmenatation, the survivor will have not only alter systems, but hundreds or even thousands of fragments, isolated parts of their mind created to do a job, and do it well and unthinkingly. Often the job is one that would be abhorrent to the main personality or presenting system. The further away from core beliefs, the greater usually the dissociation and fragmentation that must occur. In other words, a LOT of trauma has to happen to make a person do something that they really don't want to do. And the person has to feel very far away from themselves as well when doing it.
http://www.didcoping.com/h70-dissociati ... tion-svali

----------------------------------------
Poly-fragmented Multiplicity
By Sara Lambert

The number now required to be considered "extra" in th8e multiple stakes is 100-plus, and it is known by the more clinical term "poly-fragmented".
http://fromtheinsideout.tripod.com/arti ... ag-mpd.htm

---------------------------------------------
The Osiris complex: case studies in multiple personality disorder - Google Books Result
books.google.com/books?isbn=0802073581...Colin A. Ross, Colin Ross - 1994 - Psychology - 296 pages
Polyfragmented... is the fragmentation of the psyche into dissociated personality states that mistakenly believe themselves to be separate people. ...
http://books.google.com/books

------------------------------------------------

Rebuilding Shattered Lives: Treating Complex PTSD and Dissociative ... - Google Books Result
books.google.com/books?isbn=0470768746...James A. Chu - 2011 - Family & Relationships - 366 pages

"Extreme versions of DID occasionally develop in response to particularly horrific ongoing trauma with polyfragmentation encompassing dozens to hundreds of personality states. In general, the complexity of dissociative symptoms appears to be consistent with the severity of early tramatization."

I am reading The Haunted Self by Van der Hart, Nijenhuis and Steele right now. I will report what they have to say on this as I get farther into the book. This is the BEST book by far that I have read on DID and I have read a lot of them!

Bolded part (edit: red part - bolded did not work out, as it was bolded already): This is my experience. Severe fragmentation. Got asked by psychologist:"How long can you plan in advance?" Sometimess not even minutes, sometimes half an hour, but for sure not a day. Have no notion of time - at all. I do not function in day-to-day living as well, I am on disability.
It is intersting, sev0n, that you write, that severe familily abuse is "enough" (being equal to cult abuse, but anyhow I have timeloss from a many years, actually whole childhood, except for some fragments, but on the other hand I have a strong memory (like memorizing lot of classical music to detail or 1000 digits of pi).
Psychologist assumes me being fragmentated DID (since saturday).
Feel no sense of self at all, because there are too many fragments.

Thank you for writing.

Hello Alizhee,
I wrote this quite a while ago, and have learned so much since. One thing I have found is that experts such as Howell and Chu have said that someone polyfragmented can have as many as 100 alters. (I think the number being set at 100 is another case where an expert said something, then through forums and other places, what was meant was twisted.) From my research, what sets a polyfragmented system apart from others is the subgrouping. Yes, family abuse can cause polyfragmentation if it is severe enough. Did this psychologist give you insight as to your memory?

I don't want to get yelled at for putting a link for the references, but the reference information is on the Trauma and Dissociation wiki for anyone who wants to know where I got this information from.