Are we just "things" to mains? (TW: heavy profanity)

Una+ wrote: an alter that seems to be an adult can suddenly reveal itself to be a young child.

Am I a ######6 PIECE OF LIVESTOCK that it's OK to refer to me as an it and no one has a problem with that?

Is what I've done worthless because I'm not the first person to live in this godforsaken body?

Does being a god damn mother ######6 alter make me less human?

THIS is why I won't let us do therapy. We are people, we are human beings, and deserve to be treated as such. Not pushed aside as "maladjusted fragmented coping mechanisms". At one point we might have been, but at this point we're a ######6 family.

Is this really OK? I recognize a lot of systems are comprised of more fragments than we are, even so they're still people.

Unless someone's preferred pronoun is "it", do not call them an it. "It"s dehumanizing, degrading and triggering.

Why do I even have to make a post like this?
Hell, I get more respect on "normal" forums, where people are confused but still call me human.

The ###$ guys? Why is this OK?

-- Thu Dec 22, 2011 7:09 pm --

Honestly. I'm really raging here.

Did it occour to anyone that "it" is frequently used to be abusive and that it just might be a major trigger for a lot of people?
Is it really OK?

Hell, I probably shouldn't even be using "human". There are people who are nonhuman, and they don't deserve to be treated like a ######6 cattle or a piece of furniture either.

Just.. Why? Why is it ok to be dehumanizing? You'd be slapped if you called someone an "it" to their face, why am I any different to you?

You aren't to me. None of my alters/insiders are "things" to me at all. We have one fragment who is completely genderless and to avoid calling them things, i usually use their name only (which is, unfortunately at the moment, freak. I really hope at some point to be able to help them pick a different name--which has actually happened with two others, and makes us all happy that perhaps we can all grow and heal. Anyway.), because freak doesn't like regular gender pronouns, and freak also doesn't like the "new" ones, they frighten freak. So...we call freak by their name as much as we can, and use "they" the rest of the time because it's not as triggering to freak as "he/she." But I can't imagine calling any one of us an "it," no one in here is an "it," and it would be very hurtful to hear otherwise.

Although from what I know about Una, I believe/hope that she just misspoke instead of writing him/herself or themselves.

All of our alters are...well, I can't say they are all human because they aren't, we have a couple of angels, one who is dark-kin but can't figure out yet what she is, and one who is part-hare. But they are all people to me, and I would never refer to them as "it." Don't know if any of this helps, but I hope so...

Our system is a family, too. <3

Yes. It is dehumanising. But I very much doubt Una+ meant it that way. Una has her own alters and she does not disrespect her alters and nor does she disrespect any of ours. I'm sure she will reply here when she sees this.

But please do not get the impression that that is what us "guys" do. We are not here to invalidate anyone. One little word in one sentence by one member does not mean that is how "we" are. We are not. Far from it. Stick around a little longer, you may see.

Bourbon

Eisa wrote:You aren't to me. None of my alters/insiders are "things" to me at all. We have one fragment who is completely genderless and to avoid calling them things, i usually use their name only (which is, unfortunately at the moment, freak. I really hope at some point to be able to help them pick a different name--which has actually happened with two others, and makes us all happy that perhaps we can all grow and heal. Anyway.), because freak doesn't like regular gender pronouns, and freak also doesn't like the "new" ones, they frighten freak. So...we call freak by their name as much as we can, and use "they" the rest of the time because it's not as triggering to freak as "he/she." But I can't imagine calling any one of us an "it," no one in here is an "it," and it would be very hurtful to hear otherwise.

Although from what I know about Una, I believe/hope that she just misspoke instead of writing him/herself or themselves.

All of our alters are...well, I can't say they are all human because they aren't, we have a couple of angels, one who is dark-kin but can't figure out yet what she is, and one who is part-hare. But they are all people to me, and I would never refer to them as "it." Don't know if any of this helps, but I hope so...

Our system is a family, too. <3

Ok, I'm not letting Greg respond to this thread again until he hands off the 3y/o to someone else or she falls asleep. (he's usually a big softie, but when he feels threatened he gets very aggressive)

"It" is a trigger because they(and body) is FtM, and it's so frequently used to invalidate their identity (yes I'm a girl, I'm fine w/transition so w/e), and I'm pretty sure bitch/bastard (I refuse to call them parents) called us an 'it' a lot too. =| Yay emotional abuse. /sarcasm
["it" can also be a trigger because of sexual abuse, if you're treated like a toy... Just sayin'.]

If it's someone's preferred pronoun/whatever, that's fine. One of ours here has "it" as their preferred pronoun, but also recognizes most of us don't/can't use it and doesn't mind responding to he/they.
If that's how Freak identifies, that's how Freak identifies.

I really hope Una had misspoke, but that's a *really* hard thing to screw up on accident unless you're comfortable with referring to people as objects.

Sidenote, yay Eisa for nonhumans /is less than half human

bourbon wrote:Yes. It is dehumanising. But I very much doubt Una+ meant it that way. Una has her own alters and she does not disrespect her alters and nor does she disrespect any of ours. I'm sure she will reply here when she sees this.

But please do not get the impression that that is what us "guys" do. We are not here to invalidate anyone. One little word in one sentence by one member does not mean that is how "we" are. We are not. Far from it. Stick around a little longer, you may see.

Bourbon

Uhh, sometimes the best thing to do when he's on protector is to ignore the tone and weed through for the message, which TL;DR is

Is it OK to refer to alters as "its" when they are people, not objects & have their own identities as such.

He's also mad (understandably) that no one else has called her(?) out on such a blatant slip.


edited because I fail at quoting

watching&waiting wrote:Is it OK to refer to alters as "its" when they are people, not objects & have their own identities as such.

No, it's not. The NHS were referring to my alters as "its"... and I left them quite sharpish. (Not the only reason but yeah..!)

watching&waiting wrote:He's also mad (understandably) that no one else has called her(?) out on such a blatant slip.

I didn't actually see the offending sentence until quoted here!

Bourbon

I regret the upset my use of language has caused.

I used "it" because I was thinking of one of my own alters who for 30 years seemed to be some kind of demon. This alter was neither male nor female, nor even human. This alter later presented as male, first as a male dog then as a male human infant. (All these presentations make sense in the context of my own history.) In some cultures infants are seen as having no sex and the language equivalent of the pronoun "it" is used. I habitually do that myself.

Certain words are very invalidating to me but I recognize that those are my personal buttons and I do not take personal affront when they are not directed at me personally.

Una+ wrote:Certain words are very invalidating to me but I recognize that those are my personal buttons and I do not take personal affront when they are not directed at me personally.

Being called lower than an animal is invalidating for most people.
Even housepets get a gender.
Even a pet.
Even a ######6 pet. /has been used as a pet.

This is supposed to be a safe forum. If you were talking about one of your own you should have ######6 said that.
If you're going to refer to a sentient being as something as degrading as "it", ######6 specify that it's their pronoun.

It's bad enough everywhere I go I see $#%^ about how we need to intergrate, how we're not real,
how if we ever get therapy they'll only ever want to hear from Kyle & decide that if the rest of us are ignored we'll magically go away like that
how we're not real, we're just ######6 figments,
how we're hardly different from schitzophrenia

Then I come here and find out that we're "its"?
You'd be upset. You'd be ######6 upset.

Think before you open your ######6 mouth.

(as for selena's comment about the 3y/o, yes she's with someone else at the moment)

Also, Una, not all of us have that "luxury" of being able to let that kind of thing just "roll off" or whatever.
Some of us are still living in abuse.

Some of us still live with this #######4 daily.

I am trying so ######6 hard not to make this a personal attack. And if I'm failing I'm sorry. My issue is with the words and lack of consideration for ANYONE.

We can't be the only group here who's been dehumanized like this.

"It" is a trigger because they(and body) is FtM, and it's so frequently used to invalidate their identity (yes I'm a girl, I'm fine w/transition so w/e), and I'm pretty sure bitch/bastard (I refuse to call them parents) called us an 'it' a lot too. =| Yay emotional abuse. /sarcasm
["it" can also be a trigger because of sexual abuse, if you're treated like a toy... Just sayin'.]

This makes a lot of sense to me why everyone would be upset, as well. I really do not understand why some people have such a difficult time with trans people, none of you are "it's..." I mean yeah, that can be someone's preferred gender pronoun, but we honestly haven't heard of someone who is transgender, as opposed to genderqueer or genderfluid, who have ever wanted to be called "it."

(And the word "pet" is more of a trigger than "it" but I understand what you mean. If you're an "it," then you're no longer human and your feelings are no longer considered valid. You're just...there to be used. ]

And yes, we have several non-humans. Technically, I am, too, I'm not really...sure, but I don't feel completely human. Long story.

I would hope this would be a safe place to talk about our own parts as we feel them to be. It sounds like for Una her part felt like "it" to her, for a lack of a more nuanced pronoun perhaps. Or maybe for some people their parts do feel like it or like objects. This doesn't imply a judgement of others' experiences. I think we all should feel safe and comfortable to describe our own parts however we feel comfortable. Una did not refer to anyone else's alters as "it" as far as I can tell. I personally feel very frightened by the idea of calling my parts "she" or thinking of them as people. This doesn't mean I am discounting anyone else's experiences or senses of self. I don't feel offended by someone else referring to their alters as people or he or she even though this idea feels a little scary for me. I am aware that my feelings are based in fear and may well change.

I do think we all need to take responsibility for our reactions to triggers. Sharing our feelings and explaining how a word triggers us is one thing. "Calling people out" or using profanity to describe this person seems, yes, to be a personal attack to me.

If you are still living with abuse I don't think any forum could make you feel safe.

I see this forum as a place for all of us to be able to share our own personal experiences as honestly as we can and to respect each others' experiences and perceptions. I think a diversity of experience is a positive thing. I have found most interactions here to be full of respect, understanding and acceptance of each individual and unique journey. I don't think anyone thinks of you as less than human or less than animal W&W.