Complex PTSD and DID

This is kinda making sense to me. I'm not in therapy so have no one to bounce theories off so I hope you all don't mind me posting this here. It makes sense to me though. I'm trying to understand myself and why I'm like this- all DID-y and whatnot.

http://www.bullyonline.org/related/paranorm.htm

^ this link made something click for me. I already know I have Complex PTSD. I thought it was a new thing since my marriage but now I know I grew up with it.

But what happens when Complex PTSD goes on for years and years and years untreated? DID, right?

I understand that my alters are part of me yet completely believe they are other people. It seems rather contradictory, but once you consider other factors makes perfect sense.

Me on the outside world has to know that they are all parts of me- parts of my past that I have to deal with. Yet, on the inside world they are their own person and I have to treat them as such- just as if I met them as strangers on the street. Why?

Maybe I'm overthinking this, but what makes a person? You could go into debates about biology and psychology, religion and politics. But really at the core of it is their personality. A tree would never be mistaken for a person because it has no personality. It has no emotion. Emotion makes personality. When an emotion you aren't allowed to express or even allowed to feel for decades has to go somewhere. It doesn't just disappear.

If you think about it, when you were really little you didn't have protectors in your system. You had other alters to take the abuse. That anger, fear, rage, it all didn't just vanish. For my system I started really fighting back when Jackie showed up when I was 11. All of that anger is emotional energy. It makes its own personality. So she is a real person. We may share a body but for anyone to deny that she is her own person is crazy. She had experiences I never had. She did things, talked to people, had a life of her own. She really is a person.

The stronger the alter, the more emotion they carry.

Back to the link:

PTSD is a real condition, not imagined; PTSD is a psychiatric injury, not a mental illness.

With this train of though, complex PTSD that over the years having never been treated, develops into DID.

The causes of trauma have three things in common:

an external cause - you cannot traumatize yourself, something or someone has to do it to you (this factor is important in cases of negligence and personal injury); suddenness or unexpectedness are key components
violation - your body and/or mind are violated by an unexpected and unwelcome intrusion; with many forms of trauma the violation is of a sexual nature (eg harassment, rape, a violent partner, sexual abuse, abduction, etc)
loss of control - the experience is unexpected, overwhelming and beyond your control (and would be beyond the control of most people)

I think we can all relate to that quote. Hallmark of any kind of child abuse. For DID to be formed, it seems from the info I've read, you have to suffer a long series of traumatic events. That is just the tip of the iceburg though.

http://www.dissociation.com/2007/docRea ... /raise.txt

A GUIDE TO PARENTS: HOW TO RAISE YOUR DAUGHTER TO HAVE MULTIPLE PERSONALITIES

Rule 1: Don't want the child in the first place.
Rule 2: Create and strengthen polarity between mother and father.
Rule 3: Make sure one parent, especially the favored one, disappears before the child is six years old.
Rule 4: Encourage sibling rivalry, or at least don't recognize it or help your daughter deal with it.
Rule 5: Be ashamed of your family tree.
Rule 6: See to it that her first sexual experience is traumatic and that she can't tell you about it.
Rule 7: Make sure her home life as an adolescent is so miserable she wants to get married to get away. Then allow her to marry a sexual deviate who can carry on in your tradition.

While I realize this quote was made to give a general guideline, it does ring true to some extent.

Not only is the child abused, develops complex PSTD, but is also blamed for her/his own abuse, forced to forget it to create an appearance that everything is fine, has to repress their own self preservation, emotions are not allowed... it goes on.

So my point I guess I'm trying to make (I rambled a bit more than I intended) is this:

http://www.bullyonline.org/related/paranorm.htm

The effects of trauma are surprisingly commonplace, and many people suffering "stress" (from whatever cause - including the workplace) will find they are experiencing some (probably most) of the symptoms of trauma. These include:

bewilderment and confusion, an inability to understand what is happening or why it happened
a strong sense of denial, an inability to convince yourself that the experience was real; your denial is reinforced by the denial of those around you and especially of people in authority
irritability, short-temperedness, sudden intense anger and occasional violent outbursts
hyperawareness, an acute sense of time passing, the seasons changing, distances when travelling
an enhanced environmental awareness, a greater respect for the natural world, a feeling of "wanting to save the planet"
hypervigilance, which feels like but is not paranoia, and which may be (sometimes deliberately) mislabelled as paranoia by those around you
sleep problems including nightmares and waking early
flashbacks and replays which you are unable to switch off
impaired memory, forgetfulness, memory which is intermittent, especially of day-to-day trivial things
inability to concentrate
exaggerated startle response
panic attacks, feelings of nervousness and anxiety, excessive sweating, trembling, palpitations
hypersensitivity - almost every action or remark is perceived as critical or threatening, even when you know it isn't
a deep sense of betrayal
obsessiveness - the experience takes over your life, you can't get it out of your mind
joint and muscle pains with no obvious cause
depression (reactive, not endogenous)
excessive shame, embarrassment and guilt
undue fear
low self-esteem and low self-confidence
a deep sense of unworthiness, undeservingness and and non-entitlement
physical numbness, especially in fingers, toes and lips
emotional numbness, anhedonia, an inability to feel love or joy
detachment, avoidance of anything that reminds you of the experience
physical and mental paralysis at any reminder of the experience

^ those are the effects of trauma. I don't have all of that. I have alters for that.

You have to pretend to be like everyone else. As a result, you can't show any signs of having PSTD because then people would know you were traumatised.

For your own survival, you become DID. It isn't a choice you made. It was a choice made for you.

The collective symptoms of trauma often add up to Complex Post Traumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD), a natural emotional reaction to a deeply shocking and disturbing experience. Almost anybody can suffer PTSD although it appears that those most likely to experience trauma are people who are sensitive, empathic, caring, honest, trustworthy, imaginative, artistic and creative. PTSD is a real condition, not imagined; PTSD is a psychiatric injury, not a mental illness.

There was never anything "wrong" with me, with you, with anyone with DID. It is all the result of a great injury. If someone randomly came up and shot you in the leg- out of your control, unexpectedly, it wouldn't be your fault. You wouldn't be ashamed of it.

Why should any of us be ashamed of having DID? It's not like we wanted to be hurt. We are dealing with injuries.

A key feature of Complex PTSD is the aspect of captivity. The individual experiencing trauma by degree is unable to escape the situation.

There was no option for escape so we escaped the only way we could- we left our bodies.

All of my others are parts of me and at the same time are real people. It's like being thrown into a warzone with no escape but being about to summon an army to help you fight.

DID is actually kinda cool if you think about it like that. People with DID are strong, able, and completely capable.

So congrats if you have DID. It means you survived and have an entire team of people on your side. I survived. My DID is the only reason I'm still here today.

"But what happens when Complex PTSD goes on for years and years and years untreated? DID, right?"

No!
Please read this page. This will explain it for you. If you have questions please ask, but Complex PTSD does not turn into DID.

http://dx-dissociative-identity-disorde ... ative.html



I understand that my alters are part of me yet completely believe they are other people. It seems rather contradictory, but once you consider other factors makes perfect sense.

They are other parts of you. They are not people. You are one person.

Me on the outside world has to know that they are all parts of me- parts of my past that I have to deal with. Yet, on the inside world they are their own person and I have to treat them as such- just as if I met them as strangers on the street. Why?

You do not. Some people get very carried away with this and will argue this statement. You do need to interact enough to give those parts of you what you and they need to heal, which means understanding them and giving them love. You must also deal with trauma memory that many parts hold.

Maybe I'm over-thinking this, but what makes a person?

Have you looked up what is a personality? You can only have one of those, but having many parts is normal.

If you think about it, when you were really little you didn't have protectors in your system. You had other alters to take the abuse.

Mine split as twins. One to take the abuse and one was a system protector. I think most, if not all of those with DID have both parts as a child.

She really is a person.

She is a part of you. Just like those without DID have parts of them that are called ego states. This is normal. In the DID brain however these parts are more dissociated and isolated so they take on their own way of being.

For DID to be formed,

It has to do with attachment, the same as complex PTSD - the CAREGIVER is the one that abuses the child consistently. The child has no one to turn to for help. The child is alone and must turn to fantasy as a last and only resort.


Not only is the child abused, develops complex PSTD, but is also blamed for her/his own abuse, forced to forget it to create an appearance that everything is fine, has to repress their own self preservation, emotions are not allowed... it goes on.

Yes!

This is from Wikipedia

"C-PTSD is also characterized by attachment disorder, particularly the pervasive insecure, or disorganized-type attachment.[8] DSM-IV dissociative disorders and PTSD do not include insecure attachment in their criteria.

DID is characterized by an attachment disorder, as is C-PTSD.

"Thus, a differentiation between the diagnostic category of C-PTSD and that of PTSD has been suggested. C-PTSD better describes the pervasive negative impact of chronic repetitive trauma than does PTSD alone.[12][13]"

Don't be confused by this. It is all changing in the DSM V. I don't bother with the DSM IV at all.

tylas wrote:No!
Please read this page. This will explain it for you. If you have questions please ask, but Complex PTSD does not turn into DID.

I did ask, hence the question marks.

They are other parts of you. They are not people. You are one person.

We are one person but we are each our own people. You and I must disagree on the meaning of "people" and that's okay. While I will certainly would like to hear the point of view of others (which is why I posted this train of thought) I think your stance of "you're wrong, I'm right, I know because I put it on my blog" to be a little rude.

I clearly stated what I wrote as bouncing a theory so that I could understand the connection between the two.

You do not. Some people get very carried away with this and will argue this statement. You do need to interact enough to give those parts of you what you and they need to heal, which means understanding them and giving them love. You must also deal with trauma memory that many parts hold.

In my system, that means treating them like they are- their own individual person. Respect, understanding, helping them, letting them help me. Loving them, accepting them, listening to them... that is how I treat "people".

If I walk into the world that my mind has created and act as if I'm the boss of them, things would go very, very badly. If I go in and treat them like the people they are, people deserving respect, then we all get along better.

Have you looked up what is a personality? You can only have one of those, but having many parts is normal.

Says who?

Mine split as twins. One to take the abuse and one was a system protector. I think most, if not all of those with DID have both parts as a child.

That was a mistype on my part as it should read, "If I think about it, when I was really little I didn't have protectors in my system. I had other alters to take the abuse."

The mistype was due to the fact that as I was typing that I was addressing it to my host at that time. I was thinking outloud so to speak. Sorry for the confusion.

I don't. The first protector that I have knowledge of showed up at 11. Every system is tailored to the individual. When my system was created, it seemed to compress the parts as much as possible. There were even cases of functions turning into other alters.

She is a part of you. Just like those without DID have parts of them that are called ego states. This is normal. In the DID brain however these parts are more dissociated and isolated so they take on their own way of being.

No. She is her own person. We just live in the same body.

It has to do with attachment, the same as complex PTSD - the CAREGIVER is the one that abuses the child consistently. The child has no one to turn to for help. The child is alone and must turn to fantasy as a last and only resort.

Did you read the link I posted at all?

link wrote:whilst trauma from a mundane terrestrial cause (eg accident, violence, bullying and harassment) often leads to paranormal experiences such as precognition, telepathy and sometimes a UFO experience.

Paranormal.

Seeing ghosts, seeing monsters, seeing alters outside the body. Floating out of your window at night. Standing across the room watching yourself. Seeing Auras. All DID related. Yet this link is saying there is also a link between "paranormal" and PTSD.

Consider the connection- I flew out of my window at night, up to the stars where I was safe while a monster attacked someone who wasn't me in my bed.

A person claims a spaceship picked them up out of their bed, brought them on board where they were probed. They have marks on their body.

They claim it was aliens. I know that I was in the stars.

Yes!

So happy to finally have said something right in your eyes.

Y'all got a little too in-depth for me, at the moment, but I just wanted to say:

ashesoflife wrote:I did ask, hence the question marks

giggle.

InfinitD wrote:Y'all got a little too in-depth for me, at the moment, but I just wanted to say:

giggle.

LOL, I tend to carried away with overthinking things and trying to solve the puzzle. It works well when dealing with memories, but when I start trying to connect the dots between PSTD, DID, dissociative childrens' claims of out of body experiences, and throw in a bit of alien abduction in the middle for good measure... I overthink.

But hey, it keeps me from trying to solve my actual childhood for a while and focus on theories of memory. A distraction if nonething else.

edit: maybe that's why my inner world is so complex. I don't have a godawful amount of alters, but so many puzzles. Maybe I kept trying to solve my childhood as a child. The memories had to be buried further and further- put in a puzzle box, hidden inside an impossible maze that you have to figure out where it is and then you get there and find out you don't have the keys, then there are 20 more mysteries to get the keys to open the maze...

This would probably be a lot easier if I hadn't had to hide things from myself so well.

Thank you for sharing all this ashesoflife. I kind of think I have had PTSD for various things during my life...somehow it always seemed to "go away." Dissociation I guess...

Sometimes I think logic is what keeps people sane.

My mom has serious mental illness and mostly I just think, if she could stop feeling for a minute and start rationalizing a little more, she wouldn't be having such a problem.

Hey, maybe that's why we say insane people are irrational. Um. Duh.

Sometimes I think logic is what keeps people sane.

My mom has serious mental illness and mostly I just think, if she could stop feeling for a minute and start rationalizing a little more, she wouldn't be having such a problem.

Hey, maybe that's why we say insane people are irrational. Um. Duh.

I like that!

Sorry, I wont offer you any more advise. I thought you wanted answers. That took quite a while to read and answer and you reply by being snotty?
-- Mon Dec 05, 2011 5:57 pm --

InfinitD wrote:Y'all got a little too in-depth for me, at the moment, but I just wanted to say:

ashesoflife wrote:I did ask, hence the question marks

giggle.

This is the whole reply I made!
No!
Please read this page. This will explain it for you. If you have questions please ask, but Complex PTSD does not turn into DID.

http://dx-dissociative-identity-disorde ... ative.html

That meant questions AFTER reading what I directed her to.